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General discussionHarry Potter and GOG Mafia #64(1552 posts)(1552 posts)
(1552 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted February 16, 2020
I don’t think a Micro lynch is going to happen and FlockeSchnee’s post has given me pause on voting him. Moving my vote to who I feel is next best choice I’m finding scum.


Unvote Microfish_1
Vote ConsulCaesar
Posted February 16, 2020
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yogsloth: I just feel like micro has been scummier and the claim is bogus.
Flocke is getting lynched just for not being here.
But whatever, I won't lose sleep over it, and I'll hammer myself to avoid no-lynch.
Are you suggesting I should vote for you instead of trentonlf? Or are you suggesting that you're not town?

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ConsulCaesar: @Flocke: I completely sympathize with your situation, as I have very limited time during the weekday and I felt overwhelmed with the game on Day 1. RL commitments always take precedence. I agree with Lift that you should claim now. I would also like you to explain why you said that you should have voted trent Day 1, when it wouldn't have changed anything.
"The Pooka Vote" was kind of a test. The expected happened: All sorts of vote hopping. But apparently, I'm the only one thinking, that this is odd, so I should have gone with my "only scum read". I made that statement somewhere in the middle (?) of Day 1, so there could have been time for people to consider it. After all, they suddenly considered Pooka to be a viable option close to the end of day 1, all out of the blue. So why not trentonlf?

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FlockeSchnee: 1) I already explained my work situation. And there is overtime. I can't read and analyse 50+ posts a day. That's why I sat down last weekend to catch up and am doing it again this weekend. I guess, I just misjudged how much time it would consume just to keep up.
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GameRager: Not to sound like i'm nagging, but IIRC you only said it was hard to post at work....not any other info like: how much work took out of your day/how hard it might make it for you to post. Had I known some of this earlier i'd likely have focused on you a bit less.

Also there is no need to read every word, especially of the more silly/joke posts some of us like to make to pass the time.....to save time(if time is in short supply) you can/could always skip some of the less important looking text in such situations or skim to find stuff worth reading/analyzing and then read anything that stands out with more care and attention to detail.
No, I stated, I can't use internet at work at all. That includes the commute home-work-back, because my handy doesn't have internet and fiddling with it while driving is unadvisable.
Maybe you should read every word, so you actually understand what you're reading?
Even though I find it weird, that you corrected multiple people on their mistakes, but "conveniently forget" about things I post so you have a better explanation why you're voting me.

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GameRager: I don't know about the reasoning for others, but I found it suspicious(and undesirable town play if one is town) because you didn't at least keep us updated much when you posted such "catching up/caught up" posts.....as in a simple "My reads have stayed the same", or "My reads on x or y players have changed and here's how" type reply would've also likely alleviated some of my suspicions & shown(as a town) that you were more dedicated to playing the game.
So every post anyone makes is a revelation to you?
If I don't state specifics it's save to assume I didn't notice anything to make me change my mind about anything.

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FlockeSchnee: Sidenote: I mentioned in the Sign Up thread I should be able to check in every 48 hours. Someone could have just mentioned, that I have to do precise analysis at least three times a day to qualify. I would have just read the thread as one of the onlookers.
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GameRager: Again, I hope my words/posts on such earlier didn't turn you off on the game.....it's just that town need to post a bit more often in order to help other town win the game....town posting with/interacting with other players and such back and forth talks & a town player's reads lists help us find scum, and when any town(even if I did such) doesn't post much they don't help as much & also makes such players look slightly more suspect.

As for the 48 hours rule & the post bit on it above: Yes, there is no rule that one must post more every 48 hours, but the "1 post per 48 hours" rule is more like a bare minimum point that players should try their hardest to avoid even coming close to, not something they should stick to all the time if they don't have a good reason for doing so.
Let me point to my work/commuting situation (again). What else do you want from me?

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FlockeSchnee: Since we seem to need a lynch and I'm highest on the list, I will do as stated and keep my vote where it is. Or are you going to blame me for no-lynch this time too because I didn't want to vote myself? Reminder: There are 12 other people, it should be possible for 7 of them to come to a consensus, shouldn't it be?
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GameRager: I APPLAUD you for trying(if town) to play, at least, but short of a miracle I don't think any of the smaller wagons are likely to pick up steam at this point(without some solid reasoning why people should jump to them, that is).
Like I stated I expected to be the Day-1-village-idiot-lynch. I don't expect any less now.

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FlockeSchnee: In reply to post 816:
I don't want to convince anyone of anything. Seeing how most of you seem to just hop around from one wagon to the next with no real thought to it, that would be pointless anyway.
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GameRager: That's how one gets their wagon going, though.....they provide good reasoning/point out odd posts by their suspect/etc in the hopes that people jump on board.
I get that, problem is: I don't know if I'm seeing what I think I'm seeing. And I doubt it would be good to just blurt it out and I can't aks ZFR for obvious reasons.


Further musings:

I have a theory what might be going on here, but I don't know if I'm seeing what I think I'm seeing. And I doubt it would be good to just blurt it out and I can't ask ZFR for obvious reasons.
Someone should have told me this is an advanced setting, where I actually have to know about mechanics and what I'm doing to be of any use to my team.

Carradice's, post 587: Rare Neutral? We are looking for scum and scum is looking for our potential PRs? So: What neutral?

ConsulCaesar, post 648: Why does he think Cop results were announced?

Microfish_1, post 703: Why does he confuse Cop with bodyguard?

ConsulCaesar, post 802: Why does he confuse Microfish_1 and me?

Microfish_1, post 854: Why does he confuse Lift and yogs? (The amazon thing.)

SPF could have hammered Pooka. SPF actually asked Pooka if he wants SPF to switch his vote to him. Pooka's reply was along the lines of "pick someone else" with an "I don't care who" added to it. How come noone thinks SPF scum? And how does that go with Pooka's statement of "week lynches hurt town more then they help" (or something like it)? What's with all the weirdness going on?


I will be back online one more time in about 5 hours or so.

I'm Town and I don't know if I should say more than that, so I will leave it at that and see others opinions about a full claim when I come back online later.
Posted February 16, 2020
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FlockeSchnee: ConsulCaesar, post 648: Why does he think Cop results were announced?

ConsulCaesar, post 802: Why does he confuse Microfish_1 and me?
648 I meant actions instead of results (as said later). 802 just an honest mistake (I think context didn't leave much room for confusion anyway). Both instances of posting on mobile and someone replying before I noticed or I posted again (a side-effect of no edit rule).
Posted February 16, 2020
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ConsulCaesar: @Flocke: I completely sympathize with your situation, as I have very limited time during the weekday and I felt overwhelmed with the game on Day 1. RL commitments always take precedence. I agree with Lift that you should claim now. I would also like you to explain why you said that you should have voted trent Day 1, when it wouldn't have changed anything.
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FlockeSchnee: "The Pooka Vote" was kind of a test. The expected happened: All sorts of vote hopping. But apparently, I'm the only one thinking, that this is odd, so I should have gone with my "only scum read". I made that statement somewhere in the middle (?) of Day 1, so there could have been time for people to consider it. After all, they suddenly considered Pooka to be a viable option close to the end of day 1, all out of the blue. So why not trentonlf?
Thanks for the explanation. The quick bandwagons and vote changes were the focus of the conversation at the beginning of Day 2, next to Micro's claim, but somehow the discussion ended up switching to the spreadsheet at the scummy/townie lists.
Posted February 16, 2020
Vote Count

Flocke 6 - joppo, Lift, Joe, GameRager, ConsulCaesar, agent
Micro 2 - yogs, SirPrimalform
Caesar 2 - Carradice, trent
yogs 1 - Micro
trent 1 - Flocke
Joe 1 - Pooka


Everyone else - 0
Not voting -

13 Players. Takes 7 to lynch.

Flocke is closest at L-1

When you see a vote count, please take a moment to make sure your name is against the correct person.
Posted February 16, 2020
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GameRager: Don't you mean it'd by D1: Part II?

Also those film choices are sending mixed signals, as I LOVED BTTF 3(and 2). o.0
This is D1: Part II right now.

And I love all the BttF films, but I'm not sure 3 is actually a good film...

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PookaMustard: No, I am not interested in lynching you for not hammering Microfish. As you have said, 7 players have refused to vote Micro.
Not all of those players were visibly online at EoD. Flocke was definitely present and very deliberately chose no-lynch over lynching Micro. RW was another one and I think people would probably be picking up on that if he wasn't in the infirmary. I don't think it's massively damning, but I also think it's silly to say that it's no different to any of the other players who weren't voting Micro.

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Microfish_1: @Flocke, @Caesar I really hope you don't feel targeted because of your IRL.
It was not my intention to do so, and I sincerely doubt it was the intention of anyone else.
In my first game we barely got to 600 posts--650 was the mod recapping the night actions. This particular game is an anomaly, I think.
Well it's always going to be somewhat proportional to the number of players. 14 is a big ol' game!

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FlockeSchnee: SPF could have hammered Pooka. SPF actually asked Pooka if he wants SPF to switch his vote to him. Pooka's reply was along the lines of "pick someone else" with an "I don't care who" added to it. How come noone thinks SPF scum? And how does that go with Pooka's statement of "week lynches hurt town more then they help" (or something like it)? What's with all the weirdness going on?
I think you might be getting confused. Pooka was no-where near being hammered (just in case this is a terminology problem, hammering is the final vote that actually pushes their lynch through).

This was the last votecount at the time the exchange you're talking about happened:

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ZFR: Vote Count

Microfish 6 - trent, Pooka, yogsloth, ConsulCaesar, SirPrimalform. agent
Pooka 4 - Micro, FlockeShnee, Joe, RWarehall
ConsulCaesar 2 - joppo, Lift
GameRager 1 - Carradice

Everyone else - 0
Not voting - Game Rager

14 players remaining - it takes 8 to lynch.

Micro is closest at L-2

When you see a vote count, please check that your name is against the right person. Let me know if it isn't.

50 mins left
So I was on the leading wagon at that point, switching to Pooka would have only served to balance those two wagons and make a no-lynch more likely. Remember, this exchange was happening right some time after that vote count so there was definitely less than 50 minutes left.

I think the reason people are making a big deal out of you not hammering is because you were seemingly online and present until the last minute, so you had a clear choice between voting for Micro or voting no-lynch (a vote for anyone else was essentially a vote for no-lynch at that point). However I know that's you're new, and I remember hammering feeling like a big deal so I don't think it's hugely AI.

Lastly, I think you should probably claim at this point. You're at L-1, you should weigh up whether it's better to have your identity revealed but be alive or if it's more important to keep it a secret at the risk of being lynched. Generally people do claim when they're close to lynch unless they have a good reason not to.
Posted February 16, 2020
hm.
Sorry I missed all of yesterday. The move was tough but we managed it, and things should be a bit more settled now.

Fuck. I had a bunch of stuff that I'd written, but I just accidentally deleted it all.

- Pooka, why are you only making this case more-than-halfway through Day Two? Nothing that you've pointed out is recent.
Pooka, what is this 'actual meat' to which you refer? I'm assuming it's not actual meat?

- Pooka and Joppo and the concept of 'useless incarnate': HOW someone says something is definitely important, not just who they're voting for.

The first of Pooka's wes and theys distinctions that caught my attention, he was answering a question that had already been answered, and the statement itself, "we'll never know until the endgame" was somewhat dubious.
I couldn't see much reason for the statement to be made, other than to establish the idea of "I know as little as you do."
It also suggests that Pooka took for granted that whoever-it-was-asked-the-question-in-the-first-place, which a prudent townsmember aught not to do.

The second statement, I can't remember what it was now, but I remember that it had a clear intention, so the we-or-they statement when it came was much more natural.
PLUS the ACTUAL POINT I WAS MAKING AT THE TIME, which I'd forgotten until just now: I thought this second we-or-they statement would be very unlikely to come from a scum pooka: It would necessarily be a deliberate LAMIST attempt on scum-Pooka's part, and one that he would be unlikely to make, considering the attention he got for his FIRST lamist-attempt.

Is there not some sense in that?

I've made reads in this style in other mafia games that I've played with pooka: It's my favourite part of the game, thinking about what I understand of a person's character and deciding whether what they're saying is out-of-character and why that might be.

Three posts after Pooka says that all I'm doing is making useless posts about him and coasting, Carradice commends me for going-against-the-crowd and making a sensible argument in Microfish's favour.

Now, if I was a more cynical person, I might suspect that Pooka had noticed how, according to Carradice's numbermatron Joe is in the 'generally suspect' category and decided to try and swing an easy lynch. But I guess I'm not so I won't.

-Carradice. I like your summaries, and I like your reason for voting Ceasar (but I really aught to check myself), but most of all I like the flattering things you say about me.

-FlockSchnee, I lol'd when you asked why you should be held accountable for the 7 people not voting microfish. I had a good lol, and I think it's a very fair point.


Dang. I think I did wrong to vote FlockSchnee in the first place. I want to unvote him now, but his flip will be more valuable than a quick-lynch of another person. Still, I feel mean.


Also - now that I've moved and I'm away from work for a bit I SHOULD have much more time for the game. :)
Oh yeah
-GameRager and Microfish: I do some acting and playing for professional theatre, but this week just gone I was doing tech for A-Level Drama performances in the college I work at. Fun but knackering!
Posted February 16, 2020
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trentonlf: I don’t think a Micro lynch is going to happen and FlockeSchnee’s post has given me pause on voting him. Moving my vote to who I feel is next best choice I’m finding scum.

Unvote Microfish_1
Vote ConsulCaesar
Pourquoi?

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FlockeSchnee: <snip>
Claim.

Also: This game isn't for everyone. And people burn out with some frequency. It's heavy and time-consuming and a lot of more. More work than it's worth at some points, imo. I don't play in every game because I can't handle it. Make of that what you will.


I still think Flock is a better lynch than Micro. Vote stays.
Posted February 16, 2020
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JoeSapphire: It also suggests that Pooka took for granted that whoever-it-was-asked-the-question-in-the-first-place IS TOWN, which a prudent townsmember aught not to do.
Fixed that for you.
Posted February 16, 2020
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JoeSapphire: Fixed that for you.
You're using that wrong.
Posted February 16, 2020
Interview went OK, not terribly bad but not too excellent either, however I learned some things that I should definitely be more aware of next time. I might have a second interview at that company, and I might not, but either way, I also have an interview this upcoming Saturday.

Joe has posted, so let me get on with the show.

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JoeSapphire: Pooka, why are you only making this case more-than-halfway through Day Two? Nothing that you've pointed out is recent.
Pooka, what is this 'actual meat' to which you refer? I'm assuming it's not actual meat?
I actually made it in one of my first posts of Day 2, but it hasn't gained traction and was quickly forgotten about because Microfish and Flocke. I simply put it back on the spotlight but had waited too long, so I'm the one at fault here with my pacing.

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JoeSapphire: Pooka and Joppo and the concept of 'useless incarnate': HOW someone says something is definitely important, not just who they're voting for.
I think it's, as the saying goes, missing the forest for the trees. Not to use this card and I hate to use it because I think my English is excellent, but given the amount of people who don't have English as their first language here, there's so many opportunities to focus on the HOW IT'S SAID that you miss the WHAT'S BEING SAID. I'm a firm believer of actions speak louder than words, so discussion of votes and who is suspect and who isn't, and the scrutinizing of that, is more valuable than any usage of "we" or "they."

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JoeSapphire: The first of Pooka's wes and theys distinctions that caught my attention, he was answering a question that had already been answered, and the statement itself, "we'll never know until the endgame" was somewhat dubious.
I couldn't see much reason for the statement to be made, other than to establish the idea of "I know as little as you do."
It also suggests that Pooka took for granted that whoever-it-was-asked-the-question-in-the-first-place IS TOWN, which a prudent townsmember aught not to do.
Let me make this clear and let it stick around for all future games: no, I don't care that a question has already been answered. If I want to answer it, I will answer it. Besides, what if the person answering the question didn't see the other answers? What if, as it happens in my case, the answer given provides an angle that the other answers didn't (being scum in a ZFR based game, in this instance)? Not all people answer the same. The "I know as little as you do" vibe that you got from that post was also unintentional. The real intention was "we will never answer this in-game so let's focus on stuff we can answer in-game."

Also I have Carradice as Town, but my answer to him doesn't have to be for him specifically. I want the entire room, which includes non-veterans, to read my answer, not just Carradice.

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JoeSapphire: PLUS the ACTUAL POINT I WAS MAKING AT THE TIME, which I'd forgotten until just now: I thought this second we-or-they statement would be very unlikely to come from a scum pooka: It would necessarily be a deliberate LAMIST attempt on scum-Pooka's part, and one that he would be unlikely to make, considering the attention he got for his FIRST lamist-attempt.
Allow me to let you in on a secret, Joe.

Even as scum, I don't deliberately invoke LAMIST.

Compare this game to my last, and to the one before that, and so and so, and compare it with Previously on Mafia, where I was actually a Mafioso for once. You'll find the statements you're taking issue with fairly consistent across games. I don't sit down and think "what's a way to make me sound clueless?" and I don't sit down to think "why do I sound like a clueless Town in this sentence?" It just happens, and I don't worry about it.

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JoeSapphire: Now, if I was a more cynical person, I might suspect that Pooka had noticed how, according to Carradice's numbermatron Joe is in the 'generally suspect' category and decided to try and swing an easy lynch. But I guess I'm not so I won't.
Fortunately for you, even Cynical JoeSapphire would be wrong. There's no easier lynch right now than Flocke (even if we were both scum), and honestly I think you're a better lynch than the following:

- someone whose truth will be found out eventually in two days
- someone who didn't hammer the previous day
Posted February 16, 2020
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yogsloth: But whatever, I won't lose sleep over it, and I'll hammer myself to avoid no-lynch.
This is very, very LAMIST. Self-voting is very rarely good for Town. It just serves as 'Look at me, I'm so dedicated that I'd even hammer myself!' - Major scum points to yogs.

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FlockeSchnee: Further musings:

I have a theory what might be going on here, but I don't know if I'm seeing what I think I'm seeing. And I doubt it would be good to just blurt it out and I can't ask ZFR for obvious reasons
Well, you're at L-1 and the deadline is getting closer. So this may be your last chance to share your theory with us. If you want to help Town by sharing theories, that is.

As for your refusal to claim: I already explained to you, that it is custom to claim at L-1 and I also explained why. Your stalling looks quite scummy. The problem with stalling a claim is, that the closer to the deadline you make your claim, the less useful it gets. You are taking reaction time away from Town. If a L-1 candidate manages to convince Town, not to lynch him very close to the deadline, the danger of a no-lynch is very big. That means, even if you are Town, the closer the deadline gets, the harder it will be to convince anyone not to lynch you. We need that lynch today, otherwise tomorrow will be the same mess again.

Also, stalling a claim is a typical scum tactic. Especially encountered in new players who are insecure how to make up a good claim. Those often hesitate to false-claim and try to play for time. It looks as if that's exactly what you are doing right now. Town players have it easier there, because they don't have to make a claim up. They just stick to the truth.

So, please claim as soon as you are online. You've stalled too long already.


@all: I would be willing to switch to yogs or Consul. However, without the claim I still prefer Flocke. I get a 'newbie overwhelmed with a scum role' vibe from him.
Posted February 16, 2020
Also, stalling a claim is a typical scum tactic. Especially encountered in new players who are insecure how to make up a good claim. Those often hesitate to false-claim and try to play for time. It looks as if that's exactly what you are doing right now. Town players have it easier there, because they don't have to make a claim up. They just stick to the truth.
Posted February 16, 2020
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corson96: Also, stalling a claim is a typical scum tactic. Especially encountered in new players who are insecure how to make up a good claim. Those often hesitate to false-claim and try to play for time. It looks as if that's exactly what you are doing right now. Town players have it easier there, because they don't have to make a claim up. They just stick to the truth.
Uhhhhhhhhhh... Who's this shloub? A random stranger or a player forgetting they're logged into an alt?
Posted February 16, 2020
Oh, I get it. It's just Lift bypassing the 10 minute rule?
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionHarry Potter and GOG Mafia #64(1552 posts)(1552 posts)
(1552 posts)