yeah, that's why I EBWOP'd. The hyperlinks were messed up. They looked so pretty before I posted. >>:(

I know they are not infallable, but this Day people have decided to ignore them completely, which is also bad play.

Also, I had prepared BCs long before the end of D1, and I am prepared to release them if 3 others also request.


@Carradice my reads at this very moment.

List of Players as I suspect them:
1. SirPrimalform = 0.45 (unsure if 0.3 or 0.6, so meh)
2. yogsloth 1.00
3. trentonlf 0.30
4. Lifthrasil 0.30
5. FlockeSchnee 0.45 (maybe a bit of anti-OMGUS here; not sure)
6. JoeSapphire 0.70
7. Carradice 0.4 (except for the math bit that went over my head; could be hidden code there)
8. RWarehall 0.00
9¾. GameRager 0.65
10. ConsulCaesar 0.80
11. Microfish_1 0.00
12. joppo 0.45
13. PookaMustard 0.90
14. agentcarr16 0.60

Note: If NOONE backs up Agent's claim, he should be treated as scum. Except a scum neighbor scum might perhaps count on this and refuse to speak up.

Poo or get off the pot, mate

Great, I didn't do the Microfish ISO yet, or rather, I started on it and quickly left it after the fourth or fifth post. My motivation for doing anything is sort of dying. On the flipside, Micro is here. Just let me get this out of the way first.

Those who hesitate in damaging their own team on D1 will likely be haunted by it in future days, should wagon analysis and scum flips reveal the correlation. There's also the town points in lynching scum. It is not farfetched to think a scumbuddy is on a scum's wagon D1.

I'm not selling a tale. I'm working with the info I got and based it on the assumption that bussing happens, for the ultimate goal of scumhunting. And this is all without talking about the possibility that Micro is Town all along, in which case it's even likelier that scum are on the wagon.

Hoooooooooooonestly? I'm not interested in your role. I'm more interested in why you keep painting me as the scheming superscum, making me second to Yogsloth on the scumlist. You said Yog's post stinks and the reasons for it, and put him on top of...who? Me? The person you just said was looking better today? I'm getting the vibe I didn't even get lower on the scumlist and only became 2nd because Yogsloth yanked me out of 1st place.

And then you give Joe a 0.70 score. Based on what I said about him vote hopping? But surely if you think I am scum, shouldn't you take what I say with a grain of salt and not make Joe look scummy based on what I said? This is odd.

I've really no idea why you're doubling down on thinking me scum based on voting you on the D1 rush. I'm willing - have partway worked on already - to do an ISO of you and see if lynching you was a bad idea, and course correct if the results turned promising.

Ah of course, all we have to do is lynch RW's scum suspects and we'll have the game sewn up. I guess we'd better get on with it!

The thing is, not only do we not have any particular reason to value RW's reads more than our own, but they're outdated now. They're D1 reads which will only become more outdated as the game goes on. You're placing a weird amount of value on them when the only bit of them you know to be true is his read of you (if you're town) and himself.

What does BC stand for and why did they need preparing? If that's something to do with claiming then town don't need to prepare a claim...

I understood it as BreadCrumbs.

yes, they are not as current as others, but they are still valid to some degree. I have seen games where town or observers saw something that made them definitely sure of scum or town on D1, they didn't change their opinion publicly, and they were proven right in the end.

yes
You bake them in the oven at 350° (F, or course) for one hour. You remove them as necessary.

I'm suspicious of you, Pooka, because
1) lingering suspicion from last game we played together of mafia, you scum-in-that-game :)
2) you didn't give credence to something we discussed often until after I brought it up.
3) gut instinct based on your posts this game.
You see, I want to put you lower, and your argument for Joe is a bit of a one-off that you could have written of a town to give yourself town points, but I'm not comfortable yet lowering you.

I know how well you play scum, and this makes me suspicious of you from the start, similar to the Lift-is-scum thing that others have.


So far I have 2 votes to show my name & BC. 2 more are needed so i know it isn't just scum wanting it before I claim.

First off I note that Micro is at L-1 and has posted so I will unvote first to avoid Lynch until I can read and get up to speed....will revote later if I feel the need.

Unvotus Microfish

(Also Micro: I skimmed ahead a tiny bit and note you say you need 2 votes till you claim......BUT you are now at L-1 before this temp. unvote, so you don't HAVE that amount of breathing room/votes to go until possible lynch.

To everyone else: I am reading and will reply/etc and then possibly revote if need be in a bit)

1. 0.6
2. 0.3
3. 0.4
4. 0.6
5. 0.6
6. 0.5
7. 0.5
8. 1.0
9. 0.2
10. 0.5
11. 0.7
12. 0.5
13. 0.5
14. 0.0

Claim.

"Must have had a reason." Yeah, he thought you were town. Also, we know for sure that he didn't have any investigative powers, so you're literally saying "I'm Town because RW thought I was Town."

Doesn't fly with me.


-----


How quickly consensus was reached as to whether I should say who I neighbourised. I'm so proud of us for being so decisive. /s

I neighbourised Carradice.

Nice charts/etc.....I cannot say I fully get them atm(i'd likely need to study them a bit or be told what sections mean what in layman's terms), but I can sorta get the gist of what the main spreadsheet is trying to say, I think.

Also kudos for the amount of effort put in. :)

(Nitpick: By SPG in the one part near the bottom, did you mean SPF? Just checking)
=========================================================================

Would do it if I could...also thanks for adding your list to the pool of lists. :)
=========================================================================

I note that(by this post of yours) Flocke still hadn't replied(iirc) and voiced his replies to the concerns against him much.......very interesting, to be sure.


I also find it interesting that you(a seeming staunch "we must have a lynch to analyze" advocate) are
"complaining" about us getting someone close to lynch and about those doing so several days into D2.....so do you want a lynch for us to analyze and for people to get us to said lynch or not? What changed(if anything) of your stance on such from D1 to D2?

He had been told that indirectly by me and I think 1 or so others on D1, YES, but also many veterans also said how bad that idea was and chastised us for it....which he likely also would have taken into account(and likely more so than the nolynch idea due to a lynch on D1 being pushed more by the veteran players) as well.

Friday sometime, I believe....so we have time to discuss this as long as the wagon doesn't evaporate in the meantime like on D1(where not many could agree on any wagon for long).

Correction/PPE: Monday sometime, as per post 683 by Carradice
==========================================================================

So wait.....you're trying to say we should trust you as town because a known town player THOUGHT(not knew, just thought) you're town? Really?

Even in post 517, for example, RW says he only FEELS he has cleared the ones he mentioned.

NOTE: He also(in Post 517/etc) also mentioned Me, Lift, amd Flocke as well...so are you saying all of us are town by that logic?

Actually, RW had me in the town camp in Post 517.....is this a typo/mistake?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So now you have a chance to claim and throw out the above/possibly try to cast shade on agent?

as for agenT being scum, I dOn't knoW if I caN subscribe to that idea...call it a hunch.
(@OP: Above is not a vote)
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So you also try to cast shade on Yog as well, then(while still near lynch) you have to go off again? Really? If I were so close to being lynched i'd stick around unless I had no way to stay online for some reason.

I keep saying, I did//do it because otherwise players(especially new ones) would likely see it as a definite sign of scum(even in this when i'm town) and likely lynch me...as what happened in many games before when I was town.

1. Thing is you didn't state you were a PR or hint at it, while agent did....so it's more likely(imo) he defended agent or someone else he saw as a potential PR and/or NK target.
2. This is possible
3. Also possible
4. Agreed

As you said above, in idea 3 in the post bit I repld to before this one: If you are scum and NK him then he was a more "safe" choice due to him trusting you more, and he was/is a veteran player as well.

As he wasn't the cop his word doesn't mean as much, and his hunches could be wrong as well.....as I have said before on other games: Town should ONLY trust fully VERIFIED TOWN....full stop.
(Also @OP: The above line is also NOT a vote)

If i'm included I think you should claim(minimal, preferably.....just enough to clear you and not out any potential info that could help us town[if you're town that is] if you keep it secret) asap.
====================================================================

*To all: Still reading, but done till 691....will post a bit more in 10 minutes or so, and then think on voting.....though at this point(with the above post by Micro) it's more likely i'll re-vote UNLESS Micro can change my mind at the last minute.*

OK, nothing super damning so far. Just made it to #226, the infamous "role-fishing" post. On first read, I can see why people suspect it to be role-fishing, as he doesn't clarify that he's only telling people to just confirm it for themselves, at least not until #228, but by then it was too late. #283 he later clarifies that this for the sake of catching scum when they fakeclaim by linking their role with their name.

After thinking about it for a bit, the act of saying "yes" or "no" to this question would have helped scum from the get-go, as early as Day 1, figure out how to make a believable claim. Rather than notice the pattern in the flips too late, they start paying attention now and noticing how the flavor integrates with the game and, think of something that would have worked even before the RW flip. Micro answered his own question by saying yes. If he's scum, he probably got cold feet and just gave Town the advantage of knowledge there instead of patiently waiting until the nightchat let him speak his mind out...I'm not sure a Micro scum would do that, but it sounds plausible from how little he played. But if he's town, scum are thanking him in private.

#300 establishes that Agent is "just scummy enough" and that Micro is not convinced yet and might change his mind. This sets the precedent for him having no idea what to do about Agent, so points for consistency there. In #329 he says he'd lynch Agent to avoid no kill on Friday...which is what happened. Now based on what has happened in the game so far, I'm certainly not a fan of lynching "to avoid no kills" as they imply you aren't really convinced about the wagon and just jumping on, but he has actually built his Agent case based on his behavior. The frequent claims.

Worth noting that in #329, he says I am read as Town, but since I "hoodwinked" him every single time, he ought to read me as scum instead. And this is persistent across his posts. Way too often, he talks about how I'm basically a master puppeteer, and him the unwitting puppet who does as I do. I'm concerned this is an attempt to shade me and make me look worse by saying that I know how to put him in my pocket, because he does bring it up a loooooooooooot. It's honestly a very easy way to shade me without using anything from this fine game to support his claims.

Now, this is my final run for today, it's 4:34AM for ZFR's sake! The infamous #431. I now a bit better what bothered me about this post. He does say that Agent's reaction is quite nice. He appreicates it. Feels better about him. Because of it, he does not overly wish to vote Agent or Lift. A couple of sentences later, he said he would vote Agent to avoid a NL. And then the vote a post later.

I can see why he voted Agent. Agent was going to be the wagon that the day would end with, and he merely added his vote in to get a flip. After all, he thought Agent would've been that non-Town flip and that was better than a Town flip.

And I hopped on him instead of going with Agent and then worrying about a Microfish case the next day (as I'm already doing). So I think I am partway to blame for the amazing no-lynch.

Overall, I'd say neutral with scummy shades. I'm concerned about him handing info on a silver platter to scum by saying that yes, his character "matches up" with the role, and I'm also worried his constant mention of how I pocketed him is shading without having to do any real work to implicate me. But other than that? He's fine. Not bad, not overly spectacular, but alright. Now, I'm going to sleep. Maybe history will repeat itself and I will have a Pooka wagon once I'm up.

1st bit by you: Lol...nice reference m80.

2nd bit by you: My thoughts exactly.....if Micro CAN make a good reply answering my concerns and those of others(and our replies to him that were made since he last posted) then MAYBE I might reconsider re-voting him, but as of right now he's not making a good case for himself....and as a veteran(afaik he is one.....I forget what games he's played in atm) he should know better than to state essentially "This other town thought I am town so that means I am town...that's my proof" as his defense.
====================================================

Dunno about others but I didn't....I just don't trust ANY player's lists as infallible(even known town) unless they had some sort of PR that helped them find scum and they had used such on the people on their trusted list/etc, that is.

Also your seeming suspicion of many on your wagon and use of someone's feelings(RW) of who is likely town as your defense isn't helping much.

I request them, then.....this is why I unvoted...to let you make your case and have time to do so.
(@OP: Above line is not a vote)

Look into the 4th reply bit to you in post 700 for my feelings on part of this
(Again@OP: Not a vote)
===========================================================

I do hope that you eventually change your mind. Such an ISO might help us somehow no matter what happens today or tomorrow(D2 or D3).

Agreed.....getting town points is a big help.....it's part of why I suspected some on my team in the SH game and passed L policies back then.

Sounds good....I myself will wait a bit to see if you finish it & also give Micro a bit more time to post his BCs(if any) and reply a bit to what's been asked of him as of late.
=============================================================

IF he is town that is a good choice...he is very analytical and good at gathering data, it seems. :)
=============================================================

Hopefully not....I lean you more town atm and also like your posts(in this game and when you were OP in the SH game)....also I don't want to see an "undecided voting camps pt 2" on this "day" as well.
=============================================================

*Done for now.....won't make another vote until Micro has posted and replied a bit more to the new replies(including mine) to him and he has tossed us those delicious breadcrumbs we all asked for(and possible makes a claim, but only if needed). I also want to wait to see Pooka's ISO project posted and be able to read it first is possible.

If anyone had any questions I will be here for a bit*

(@OP: Again, the above is NOT a vote)

I take it this was a joke?
What I'm saying is that the decided opinion of a logical towns-person in thinking me "lock town" should not be discarded merely because you find it convenient to do so, it should be considered.

Decisions about some things are very easy. ;-)

Glad to hear that Carradice was the target, will Carradice back this up?

===========================================

@Pooka, Further: I was absolutely convinced D1 that you were scum. You weren't passed by Yogs, but you lowered yourself and he then accelerated beyond you.
(also If I flip my opinion too quickly, this will open me up to charges of votehopping/being wishy-washy, etc /s )
your comment about Joe was one of the things that is moving you lower.
I had noted (and I think(?) mentioned) Joe's Joe-ness and not towniness on D1; I was glad to see another player bringing it up.

======================================

see above

-------------------
Yes, it was a typo, thanks for catching it. :O
However, I have to say that my list of leaning town--with the possible exception of GR (in part because of how successfully LAMIST he was last game)--very closely matches those RW saw and did at the end of D1 also.

------------
No, more of a "hey, he claimed he was a neighborizor...lets see if he's lying or if he's telling the truth. After all, we take liars to lunch.
Also, your "Town" is kinda blatant...just sayin'....

------------------
1, that is a summary of my initial feelings (I did say I lost it 3 times and wasn't sure if I wanted to bother typing it a 4th time as i didn't recall it all.
2, IRL with longstanding commitments takes the place of this game for an evening, even if I get removed from play in the process. See Rule 3.

------------------
I hear you and want to believe you, but after last game's very skillful performance by a certain player by the initials G.R., idk if I can.

---------------------------
See 503:
He did too see me as a PR. :)

---------------------
Not buying this, but I've never played as scum, and almost never read scumchat, so idk but I don't think so.

-------------------
Do you consider RW to not be fully verified cop?
eyebrows fly into his hairline

======================================

BUMP PLEASE

Not him, but I agree wholeheartedly.

We will have to wait and see, I guess. I am guessing he will likely verify this(as both town and scum would benefit from verifying such, I think[albeit for differing reasons]) when he gets online and notices that post.

Ok then....BTW is there a reason you're talking about me TO ME in the third person? Or did you forget to denote more clearly that that bit was to everyone?

That's fair enough IF one bases that on the assumption he might have been lying as you seem to have done.

What "town"? I don't know what you're talking about....o.0

*Kicks dry roll under nearby pile of foodstuffs and walks away whistling*

1. Sorry, I missed that bit(I went for the more substantial/important looking bits when reading it).

2. Fair enough....just that if you're town I don't want us to lose a town if we can help it(especially one I like playing with slightly more than most) :)

Fair point, though(and I know this is my word alone, but) that was likely(in part) a fluke...also it seems that it being a different game type with a different way of playing made it a bit easier to play more skillfully for people who play as I do.

Though I will say I applaud you for giving me more credit than I deserve and also doing your due diligence and suspecting me as well.

He said he THOUGHT you might be a PR....it wasn't as "clear" a claim as agent's claim the previous "day", though.....so imo the NK might have been done on you, but I feel he'd have been a bigger target for scum due to his claim on D1.

But YOU SAID that scum would go after a "safer bet" when making a NK......if you are/were scum(not saying you are for sure, just positing here) then obviously they'd have gone after him as said "safer bet"....though yes, it's more likely he intercepted a NK on someone else and got killed that way.

He was a bodyguard......NOT a cop(or is that a type of cop?).....else his listed PR would say cop/similar.

Also that bit you highlighted....I meant all other players besides one's self that haven't been verified town, of course.....in such cases I stick by that stance: i.e. Town should only fully trust other verified town.

(@OP: Above is not a vote)