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FlockeSchnee: This is the most simple way I can put it, otherwise there is nothing I can do.
I understand now - you notice Yogsloth's got a pattern of triplet phrases. I think it's just a coincidence that they were all responses to Trent: it's just a way of emphasising humorously. I imagine if you looked at his post across the forum you'd see the "blah blah blah" pattern pop up a lot.


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yogsloth: Let's do this
THIS is what scum yogsloth was doing in the first game I played with him. It's enticing, isn't it?

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yogsloth: trent, I think they're onto us,
Is trent town?

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JoeSapphire: Alright good.

unvotus AgentCarr

arghthisdayishecticandthere'salreadyabout10morepoststhatIdon'thavetimetoread Trentonlf
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SirPrimalform: Do you read Lift vs Agent as town on town then? Or are you just backing off for now?
I find it a bit weird that it only takes an AtE to shed scum points in your eyes.
I guess. What's AtE again?
I didn't give Carr scum points (I don't think? It's hard to remember) but thought if he's just going to keep lighting fires he should probably be lynched on policy. Carr's still in my every growing "whuuuuut???" pile so yeah I'll vote him to avoid no-lynch.

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joppo: Sorry, I don't follow. Why would those actions clear either of them? Lead me through your logic in more detail. I am even reading Lift as town so far, but I still fail to see why an easily faked PM would be enough to clear them. Doubly complicated in the case of Lift: this isn't his first rodeo and he has more than enough experience to imagine the winning conditions in a real town PM.
he can imagine the winning conditions, but he can't be confident it's what zfr imagined.

How would he know the town PM's didn't REALLY all say "yadayadayada"? - There's many ways it could have gone really wrong for very little reward.

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yogsloth: Hey I have a quick message for trent, could everyone else please look away for a minute, please?

ets-lay ightkill-nay ockshcnee-flay onight-tay

shhh

OK everybody else can look now

.......

trent, I think they're onto us,
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trentonlf: Alas we tried to keep the wool pulled over their eyes, guess our game play has degraded and we are no longer worthy. Although I was tempted to jump around with signal flags if it took much longer as it thought it was pretty obvious we were taking in code the whole time.

*sigh* Woe is me! *much weeping and gnashing of teeth*
¬_¬
hmmm...

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RWarehall: In the Supernatural game, the mod specifically prohibited any player from revealing their character names because he knew it could break the game and you dropped "Angel" confirming your role as the only real Angel character in the game. That was NOT cool and tainted the game
'Angel' was the name of his role too. How was he to know he was the only angel character in the game?
I thought it was pretty cool

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Carradice: Do they also know the distribution of especial roles/powers among them, in case any have been assigned to them? Meaning, before they have a first chance to talk in their den, too.
Sometimes yes, sometimes no. This time we only got told- HEY WAYTAMINNIT
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Carradice: An open question to those in the know: Each individual scum knows who his fellows are, right at the start (before they have the chance to talk in the special casting phase/night phase). Do they also know the distribution of especial roles/powers among them, in case any have been assigned to them? Meaning, before they have a first chance to talk in their den, too.
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yogsloth: Let me translate

"Hey everyone, look at me, I'm asking questions about what information mafia gets because I'm not one of them! Look at me, look at me, look at meeeeeeee!"

lmao

Yes, generally mafia should get a PM with each others's identities and full role cards
LOL

Just wondered if a mafia who was a good teamplayer might went to the rescue of another if it was worth the risk, even on Day 1.

It is really flattering that ignorance can pass for cunning. Yay!!! :D

Anddd...it might be great to look a bit more scummy... so that a NIK is delayed... The upside is that, not having much idea of how things go, surely the Slyth crew can do better :D

(Surely the ringers have been doubling over on the list of suspects so far).
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Carradice: It is really flattering that ignorance can pass for cunning. Yay!!! :D

Anddd...it might be great to look a bit more scummy... so that a NIK is delayed... The upside is that, not having much idea of how things go, surely the Slyth crew can do better :D

(Surely the ringers have been doubling over on the list of suspects so far).
¬_¬
hmmm....
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Carradice: It is really flattering that ignorance can pass for cunning. Yay!!! :D

Anddd...it might be great to look a bit more scummy... so that a NIK is delayed... The upside is that, not having much idea of how things go, surely the Slyth crew can do better :D

(Surely the ringers have been doubling over on the list of suspects so far).
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JoeSapphire: ¬_¬
hmmm....
So, let us talk later. You know, ‘later’, wink, wink, nudge nudge, say no more ,say no more.

The sacristan asked for the keys. Repeating: The sacristan asked for the keys.
Too much talk about how people acted in previous games...

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Carradice: An open question to those in the know: Each individual scum knows who his fellows are, right at the start (before they have the chance to talk in the special casting phase/night phase). Do they also know the distribution of especial roles/powers among them, in case any have been assigned to them? Meaning, before they have a first chance to talk in their den, too.
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yogsloth: Let me translate

"Hey everyone, look at me, I'm asking questions about what information mafia gets because I'm not one of them! Look at me, look at me, look at meeeeeeee!"
What a subtle attempt, if that was his intention. Nice not-so-subtle reminder to second-guess absolutely everything.


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Carradice: Just wondered if a mafia who was a good teamplayer might went to the rescue of another if it was worth the risk, even on Day 1.
Any suspects in mind?
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SirPrimalform: Do you read Lift vs Agent as town on town then? Or are you just backing off for now?
I find it a bit weird that it only takes an AtE to shed scum points in your eyes.
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JoeSapphire: I guess. What's AtE again?
I didn't give Carr scum points (I don't think? It's hard to remember) but thought if he's just going to keep lighting fires he should probably be lynched on policy. Carr's still in my every growing "whuuuuut???" pile so yeah I'll vote him to avoid no-lynch.
Appeal to Emotion.
I found it a bit odd the way you voted for Carr and then unvoted as soon as he said (interpolated) "Aw gee, I'm sorry for acting all suspicious. I didn't mean nuthin' by it!". But I guess if you were voting because he was being annoying rather than because you thought he was scum then it's a bit more understandable.
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JoeSapphire: I guess. What's AtE again?
I didn't give Carr scum points (I don't think? It's hard to remember) but thought if he's just going to keep lighting fires he should probably be lynched on policy. Carr's still in my every growing "whuuuuut???" pile so yeah I'll vote him to avoid no-lynch.
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SirPrimalform: Appeal to Emotion.
I found it a bit odd the way you voted for Carr and then unvoted as soon as he said (interpolated) "Aw gee, I'm sorry for acting all suspicious. I didn't mean nuthin' by it!". But I guess if you were voting because he was being annoying rather than because you thought he was scum then it's a bit more understandable.
Oh it was the "real talk" thing that got me - I read it as him saying "I'm being serious now."

But... Trent's not getting lynched today is he? So what's my vote doing?

unvotus Trentonlf

flipfloppus bippetyboppus AgentCarr
I am sorry that I have not posted a single thing today, but I said earlier that I was gonna face a tough load of work and that's exactly what is happening. Still gonna take a few more days to clear but at least I'm seeing progress. I just hope I can survive in game until my workload goes back to its usual little rush state. Despite the rush I'm gonna try to post at least a couple replies down below that I had worked on earlier today.

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joppo: If we hit a PR with our lynch that townie has a damned good reason to claim before the hammer hits, and if the PR is good enough they will probably be spared. In that case you might think they will be the NK, but for a townie that was as good as dead (lynched) they're at least drawing the NK away from another townie.
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GameRager: That's if they are believed, and even if they are they'd likely be the next night's NK unless we have a PR to block said NK.
Clearly I forgot to state the possibility of a Doctor/Jailer protecting the revealed PR that now has a target on their back.
Or a Watcher that will have their eyes over that player like an eagle. One of the scum might even kill them that night but they're the obvious lynch the next day.

Look, the point is that even if the PR townie is at risk, the mafia doesn't get a risk-free NK. In the case of a player that is hindering their team they will at least do a good job as bait.

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ConsulCaesar: I also said what I thought about the Houses and a potential third party... Not much I can say without going into claiming.
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agentcarr16: Significant?
Apart from that, Caesar has been consistent.

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joppo:
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agentcarr16: Do you believe Caesar to be Slytherin or simply non-Gryffindor?
I was more inclined to say Slytherin, but as I reread his previous posts I feel conflicted now.
Not only he alluded a few times to the possibility of a "3rd party, possibly a survivor", there is also that bit you copied above "I also said what I thought about the Houses and a potential third party... Not much I can say without going into claiming"
Could be a neutral 3rd-party after all, could also be pure WIFOM. It is hard to gauge that with an unknown variable like him. I need time to learn his playstyle. Still my confidence that he must not be from town hasn't diminished in the least, only my certainty over his Slytherin card did.

I'm also thinking it is weird that he didn't react to either mine or Carradice's statements about him.
He stated earlier that he's used to playing Mafia elsewhere so he's bound to be as experienced as scum needs to be in order to not get caught in arguments that put them in the spotlight. (This last part is all circumstantial, of course. The fact he probably knows how to play scum doesn't mean that he is scum, just that he won't be able to say that he did something scummy due to inexperience.)

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Microfish_1: until after your probable-lunch
I don't know why, but every time I read your posts I get hungry.

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SirPrimalform: Hmm, seems like the game has stall
ed.
I'm not quite sure I get the Caesar wagon, can someone sum it up?
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Carradice: Happily. Maybe more can be said (or corrections added) by joppo and yogsloth (and people who have mentioned him, there was something like a Digitus Suspicio on him, too). What can be offered here is this:

1. Heavy lurking.
2. Prodded by yogsloth and yours truly (along with the rest of the shy ones) so that they participate. They did greatly (but for him), including Flocke and you.
3. A couple inane posts by @ConsulCaesar, that were duly criticised by yogslogth.
4. A bit more prodding in #206. The Slytherinometer (TM), by the way, had three purposes: one, making an effort for transparency (it was directly inspired by Flocke's effort); second, receiving feedback for all those things that had not been seen (as is to be expected from someone new to the game); three, sparking reactions, which it did.
5. A post with too many things wrong. You can read about it in #266, points 1, 3, 4, 5.
You summed it up very nicely. Post #234's last sentence looks like baiting you to claim whether or not you have a PR.

Caught up until post #382. I hope I can actually post like is proper for players of this game this friday.
Gotta go. See you all tomorrow.
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Carradice: An open question to those in the know: Each individual scum knows who his fellows are, right at the start (before they have the chance to talk in the special casting phase/night phase). Do they also know the distribution of especial roles/powers among them, in case any have been assigned to them? Meaning, before they have a first chance to talk in their den, too.
Depends on the game. In the previous game by ZFR, I was scum. At the very beginning, I knew who my teammates were but not their roles. We were allowed to make a single hi post, which we did, except we couldn't claim what our roles were. One of us had claimed by accident and was punished when the night chat was active by being prevented from posting for 24 hours. If we go by previous precedent, the circumstances are probably similar, but nobody knows for sure.

A Night 0 is possible. Scum knowing who their teammates and their roles from the get-go are also possible. But we'll never know until the end of the game. So your question ultimately can't take us anywhere useful.

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yogsloth: Let me translate

"Hey everyone, look at me, I'm asking questions about what information mafia gets because I'm not one of them! Look at me, look at me, look at meeeeeeee!"
I like how you read Carradice's question as Look At Me, I'm So Town!

For the newbies, what I said above in all caps is abbreviated LAMIST and is a term thrown around when a player is suspected to be trying...too hard to look Townie. That yogsloth decided to suspect Carradice of being LAMIST is fascinating, considering it's his first game on GOG Mafia if not mafia in general. Granted Carradice's question isn't one that's particularly helpful in any sort of way, but yogs' quick pounce on him is concerning.
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agentcarr16: That would be Lift, per post 322.
That post isn't by Lift, and only mentions him a bit....could you explain it to me what i'm supposed to be looking for?
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RWarehall: In the Supernatural game, the mod specifically prohibited any player from revealing their character names because he knew it could break the game and you dropped "Angel" confirming your role as the only real Angel character in the game. That was NOT cool and tainted the game the same way you and Lift and Yogs are trying to use the PMs as some sort of added advantage. Otherwise, why are you doing it?
Just my two cents: Imo ALMOST ANYTHING a town can do to win is a-ok.....as long as it doesn't break the rules set in place or cause the game to end too early("day" 1 or so)......that includes if one finds a loophole and exploits it to win.
================================================================

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ConsulCaesar: Going with my gut on who I feel is more likely to be scum.

I requested not to put agent on L-1 without a consensus so he wouldn't be surprised-hammered.
Ok then/fair enough.

I sorta agree on not rushing agent to L-1 so he can claim if need be, but at some point if we're going to be serious with this and attempt to get a claim out of him someone is going to have to get him close to lynch.

As such if he gets to L-3 I will likely add my vote in then, and then we can chat him up a bit if everyone wants.

(@OP: Not a vote)
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Lifthrasil: Not casting shade. Asking for a reason. Yes, I am fine with people voting for me, as long as they provide a reason. It's what helps town analyze and judge these votes after the flip. Voting without reason is scummy.

By the way, you asked the same question.
Fair enough, though tbf whenever anyone does it(even me) it is still NAI.

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Lifthrasil: Also, I don't call all kinds of jokes trolling. Just conscious anti-social behavior (or in this case anti-game) for personal amusement. You know, that which agent admitted doing
I seem to have missed that...thanks for pointing that line out.....yeah it is subtle mild trolling, but to me not the mean/nasty kind usually associated with the word......that line where I said it wasn't trolling was more me musing/an aside on how people seem(these days, in general) to misuse/overuse that term when it either doesn't apply, or(in your case) is too strong a word(imo).

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Lifthrasil: The case with agent is partially similar. Yes, it makes me angry if someone disrupts the game for his own personal amusement. Agent is doing that. It makes me even more angry if I try to imagine that he is Town and is working so strongly against his own team, for his own personal amusement.
Maybe he is just trying to play the game to have fun, as I do/am?

Also imo ANYONE playing such games should be ready to play through bits they dislike

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Lifthrasil: Since I usually get along with agent, I prefer not to think of him as anti-team ass, but as scum. I can understand disrupting the game as scum. Especially if he manages to preserve the cop-out of 'hey, it was all just a joke'. But I can't or don't want to see agent doing this as Town - and if he is, I don't want to keep playing with him. Someone on my team who intentionally acts in this way against his team would be hard to play with. So I prefer to assume that he is scum or Jester or other neutral.
See, this is the sort of play I dislike.......I think ANY player(even me) should be willing to play through even bits they dislike, even boring bits/with other players that play a way they dislike/etc......if one has certain things they dislike in play they should list them when signing up and, if an OP/host/player will likely bring them into a game then I think a player(any player that feels such) should sit out rather than possibly bringing a game to a halt while a replacement is obtained/brought up to speed.

Of course, I also think ANY PLAYER shouldn't try to ruin the game in certain ways(examples: a player insulting a player/everyone, someone not posting to make people upset, etc). At the moment, though, I think Agent is mainly trying to just have fun with the game & not trying to make anyone upset for bad reasons.

Advice: If it works for you(how you interpret agent's play) then fine, but imo it'd be better to just "rip the bandaid off" and try to admit/come to terms with that being his play style rather than having to constantly ignore it....just my two cents.

(Note to lift: The above is just me musing/stating my stance on such & offering some advice to a fellow player, so I hope it doesn't come across as too rude to you/etc)

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Lifthrasil: Your Viktor Krum claim, however, I did believe. It fits the setting and you having a neutral role would fit your behaviour much better than you being Town would. Also, I didn't think that you would make another of those jokes after the atmosphere was already that heated. That shows, that you actually WANT to disrupt the game.
Or he could be just having fun with the game....that is(as I said) also a possibility.
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Lifthrasil: No, I haven't been to China since a few years. But thank you, I am getting better bit by bit.
Well it HAS spread outside China, so I DO hope you are exercising the proper precautions......we don't wanna lose such a good forum goer, after all. :)

Also good to hear you are feeling a bit better. :)
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ZFR: OK, let's make it 6pm UTC.

Anyone lives in Hawaii?
Elvis did for a bit, I think....though he(alive or dead) wouldn't likely be sitting around the forums here. :)
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Carradice: The sacristan asked for the keys. Repeating: The sacristan asked for the keys.
Wait wot?!? o.0
(@OP: Not a vote)
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Done till 394...will post replies a bit more in a bit....
(@OP: Not a vote)
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joppo: Clearly I forgot to state the possibility of a Doctor/Jailer protecting the revealed PR that now has a target on their back.
Or a Watcher that will have their eyes over that player like an eagle. One of the scum might even kill them that night but they're the obvious lynch the next day.

Look, the point is that even if the PR townie is at risk, the mafia doesn't get a risk-free NK. In the case of a player that is hindering their team they will at least do a good job as bait.
I'm hoping all that is true, myself, and good points.

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Microfish_1: until after your probable-lunch
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joppo: I don't know why, but every time I read your posts I get hungry.
You too? :)

Aside: I also wonder if he can't play at home for some reason(he only uses that word to avoid tripping work filters....iirc)...cuz I know in the US private citizens CAN use that word. Maybe he just uses lunch all the time so as not to accidentally slip up at work and use lynch by accident.

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joppo: Caught up until post #382. I hope I can actually post like is proper for players of this game this friday.
Gotta go. See you all tomorrow.
Good to hear and see ya tomorrow.
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PookaMustard: So your question ultimately can't take us anywhere useful.
Maybe, but it helps newbie players with a bit more info ion how to play the game, so it helps them a bit(if that was indeed his intent with that question).
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Done for now.....I will wait until Friday evening(around 6-9PM EST) to cast my vote, and if one of my top suspects is high enough and likely to get lynched I will vote for them. But if a person I suspect little is high up or no one is likely to get to lynch by deadline I will leave my vote on nolynch where it is. What does everyone think of this plan, btw?

(Also big question to all: What does everyone think of the odd line in Post 394? Just random wording to match what others were doing or something else?)

(@OP: Not a vote)
*reads thread*
At this point if agent really is scum (highly doubtful IMO, and if I'm wrong oh well) then I'm rooting for him just so I can be treat the game how I felt he has been treated, persnickety
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Microfish_1: So, Agentcarr
1. You didn't answer the question, you evaded.

2. Please give us your full or reasonably full thoughts now regarding these reactions. A detailed list, broken down by player, would be really nice, but not necessary. Reason: If you are indeed town, but this is not proven until after your probable-lunch, it would be very useful indeed to the rest of us town to have a list of a confirmed town's suspects and thinking on this subject. You said you were sifting reactions, please give.

3. You think Lift is more or less focused than usual? Explain please in plain English as if we totally missed your meaning, so that there can be no misunderstanding here. Because frankly, without going back and rereading a bunch, I am not sure that the answer is clear. Even if I did reread everything, I'm not sure that the answer would be clear.

If you are town, you should have limited trouble answering these questions. Now, note that if you are a town PR, I don't expect--and indeed am not asking for--you to list thoughts regarding what you might or would do with that PR insofar as it applies to this game. I want your vanilla thoughts, without being flavoured by any PR you might or might not have.

If the popular support was there, I can see voting SirLamFirProm because of the pattern mentioned earlier, but this does not prove anything, and so I would vote him reluctantly based on the evidence I currently see.
I think agent is town, and I think this post is scum microfish sandbagging his vote, possibly for a hammer position.

No idea what the last bit about SPF is supposed to signify in this context, nor why he altered the name that way, though.
But agent is now firmly the lead wagon, and nobody wants microfish, and I don't think Caeser is going to roll to a conclusion either, and I feel a little bit funny picking on players I don't know anyway

what do good people

I'm running out of ideas
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agentcarr16: Apart from that, Caesar has been consistent.

Do you believe Caesar to be Slytherin or simply non-Gryffindor?
Consistent? or inexistent? Lurker, fisher, scummer, killer?

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joppo: I was more inclined to say Slytherin, but as I reread his previous posts I feel conflicted now.
Not only he alluded a few times to the possibility of a "3rd party, possibly a survivor", there is also that bit you copied above "I also said what I thought about the Houses and a potential third party... Not much I can say without going into claiming"
Could be a neutral 3rd-party after all, could also be pure WIFOM. It is hard to gauge that with an unknown variable like him. I need time to learn his playstyle. Still my confidence that he must not be from town hasn't diminished in the least, only my certainty over his Slytherin card did.
Good post. From his post quoted in #266, point 5. All the consul's men, it had all the look of a powered hostile neutral or maybe a Slytherin, and for the looks of it, preparing the soil for a (fake) claim.

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Carradice: Just wondered if a mafia who was a good teamplayer might went to the rescue of another if it was worth the risk, even on Day 1.
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ConsulCaesar: Any suspects in mind?
Glad that this question is raised. An example might be a burnt out @AgentCarr x a powered @ConsulCaesar.

============================

Now, for something completely different: @Lift's bandwagon. Made because of his zelousness against claiming jokes, OMGUS, and his anger when those jokes have been repeated. Looks like something made out of thin air, with a hint of smoke & ashes, tied together spidery silk.

@Pooka started it for the zelousness? (dunno exactly) and, maybe memories of how Lift used to be? One vote is OK, but let us check how is the wagon doing afterwards. Mmmmm... Ohhhhhhh, what a nice surprise.

After the inicial suspicion, had been thinking that @AgentCarr was just a joker, but things become curioser and curioser. Still, it was @ConsulCaesar who jumped on the bandwagon AFTER @AgentCarr's OMGUS vote.