Posted February 05, 2020
It's enough to make me wonder if this is distancing and you've picked weak arguments to reduce the risk of actually having to lynch each other?
my name is catte
i touch your foods
Registered: Mar 2010
From United Kingdom
It's enough to make me wonder if this is distancing and you've picked weak arguments to reduce the risk of actually having to lynch each other?
my name is catte
i touch your foods
Registered: Mar 2010
From United Kingdom
Posted February 05, 2020
Oh fuck, I'm up to the real crazy PM argument bit.
#266 is a good post from Carradice.
Giving a free pass to both RW and Caeser
seems legit
Want to know what I think is the real reason you voted him? I will come to it right after this bit:
I would really like for yogsloth and trentonlf to explain this very weird series of events. It didn't happen just once, not just twice. It happen three times. Conincidence? Three times?
I mean this:
1
(after having a back and forth about a messed up quote from SPF)
yogsloth, post 41: OK, so you're quoting Joe to comment on Carr being ballsy or funny ... null, whatever
= "officially ending the conversation"
SPF, post 43: I was just agreeing with/adding to what Joe said, however because I cocked the quote up it wasn't particularly clear.
(as a reply to Carradice's "joke vote" on yogsloth)
yogsloth, post 54: (Tied me lead wagon.) I see I see I see. (= SPF, I figured it out/Understood. = trentonl)
trentonlf, post 56: Unvote yogsloth
2
SPF, post 78: takes back his vote on agentcarr in "gibberish/latin?"
yogsloth, post 79: Nope, Agent is town. ... Going back and forth on Carradice ... I'll reserve judgment here. Good good good.
SPF, post 80: Takes back his vote on agentcarr in english.
trentonlf, post 83: Vote Carradice
3
SPF, post 106: I'm willing to give agent a pass for that for now, but obviously it might count against him down the line.
yogsloth, post 107: Townies that lie like the plague (and there are many on Mafia Universe) doom the town to defeat. I hate it so much... so much... flames... flames, from the side of my face...
Wokka wokka wokka!
trentonlf, post 108: Unvote carradice
Vote SirPrimalform
-----------
Well, to be honest, no explanation is gonna make me unsee this. My vote stays where it is and I know who I'll vote next if I survive that long.
My thoughts:
Option 1
yogsloth and trentonlf are on a different team, either scum or third party. Personally, I'm leaning more towards third party. It would explain why he's so unhappy about talking about "setup/mechanics".
Option 2
yogsloth and trentonlf and SPF on on the same team: Either scum or third party. Not sure about this right now. SPF could be an "innocent target" - or just scum that happend to be targeted if y and t are third party.
Option 3
There is a scum connection plus (tragic?) lover connection going on there between yogsloth, trentonlf and SirPrimalform.
Question is: Was "I see I see I see" directed at SPF (= SPF, I figured it out/Understood)I and trentonlf (= Pay attention/Unvote me)? Only at SPF and trentonlf mistook it as a message for him? Or only at trentonlf and SPF just got mixed up in this, maybe even as a possible -future- target more or less from the start?)
Special note:
yogsloth opinion about early wagons clearing people as town. (post 107: I think Lift is probably town from a few other things though, including having an early wagon run on him that wasn't really put together from much substance and just... vibey wibey kinda stuff, but ya know, whatevs, it's not my strongest read ever.)
I'm guessing this is what I looked like to everyone else when I accused vitek of pretending to be pikachu?
I'm sorry FlockeSchnee, but I can't see what you're seeing. As far as I can tell, you think you've found coded messages or breadcrumbs?
Ok, I'm at the point where I posted last night.
Lifthrasil
Bring the GOG-Downloader back!
Registered: Apr 2011
From Germany
Posted February 05, 2020
Nah, that's a totally different game!
my name is catte
i touch your foods
Registered: Mar 2010
From United Kingdom
Posted February 05, 2020
If that's the truth, you've got to be third-party at best. If it's a joke then you should probably be lynched for being a distraction at this point. Are you a jester?
@others: what else do you need? Do you believe that this was another joke-claim?
@those who haven't read HP: Durmstrang is a foreign school that actually teaches the Dark Arts. Not only defense against them, like Hogwarts does. So, they are not part of the 'houses' system of Hogwarts and, while not an actual enemy, decidedly darkish.
This and the bad arguments with PMs is enough for me.
I'm tempted to say I'll wait for Agentcarr to come back and tell us if this was also a joke or if it's a real claim, but at this point is there even any point?
Riddikulus Agentcarr
If we keep following your 'logic', we keep no-lynching. Scum keep killing. We lose.
Especially on Day 1, no-lynch is the worst that can happen to Town. That's both game logic and experience.
You want to base everything on the power roles - of which we don't even know which ones exist. If they exist at all. Or if they'll survive long enough to be useful, if they exist.
So, again, and this is also a notice to all newbies:
No-lynch is very, very bad for Town and therefore voting no-lynch is something which is either scummy or a newbie-error. It's never in the interest of Town on Day 1.
No-lynch should only be used for tactical reasons later in the game if the maths justifies it (i.e. part of a plan to expose the last mafia).
I know, I'm a P'n'C fiend so I have it wishlisted! :P
ZFR
I love gold!
Registered: Jan 2010
From Ireland
Posted February 05, 2020
Votus Conputatio
agent 5 - RWarehall, Lift, Micro, Joe, SirPrimalform
Lift 2 - Pooka, agent
Microfish 2 - trent, yogsloth
yogs 1 - FlockeShnee
ConsulCaesar 1 - joppo
No-lynch 1 - GameRager
Everyone else - 0
Not voting - Carradice, ConsulCaesar
14 players remaining - it takes 8 to lynch.
agent is closest at L-3
When you see a vote count, please let me know if your name is against the wrong person.
agent 5 - RWarehall, Lift, Micro, Joe, SirPrimalform
Lift 2 - Pooka, agent
Microfish 2 - trent, yogsloth
yogs 1 - FlockeShnee
ConsulCaesar 1 - joppo
No-lynch 1 - GameRager
Everyone else - 0
Not voting - Carradice, ConsulCaesar
14 players remaining - it takes 8 to lynch.
agent is closest at L-3
When you see a vote count, please let me know if your name is against the wrong person.
agentcarr16
Vagabond
Registered: Mar 2014
From Canada
Posted February 05, 2020
Sorry. I think it's from an RPG book I found somewhere?
Lifthrasil: Which would fit very well with a neutral third party role. Combined with you assumption that non-Gryffindor means non-Town, which, as I assumed might come from you being non-Town, this fits. ... So, you are non- or even anti-Town. Would you believe Fleur Delacour and I'm here to steal your men? Relevant clip.
You actually believe every claim I've made, don't you? Well then, don't tell anyone but *whispers* I'm actually Dumbledore in disguise. This is the most fun I've had since --SPOILERS--.
When I think it stops being funny, right?
Looks like someone may get lynched after all!
@Everyone - Real talk. I apologize if I'm ruining the game for you. I don't have the time to write walls-of-text or ISO every single player. I barely have time to read everything thoroughly. I get my kicks by acting erratically and watching people drive themselves crazy over it
I have not claimed my real character yet. I will not claim my real character unless I reach L-1.
I actually think Lift is scum. This fixation is above and beyond Lift's normal tunnel vision.
I am also suspicious of SirP. He's hopped on a wagon in that critical 50-75% range with a poor reason.
You actually believe every claim I've made, don't you? Well then, don't tell anyone but *whispers* I'm actually Dumbledore in disguise. This is the most fun I've had since --SPOILERS--.
When I think it stops being funny, right?
Looks like someone may get lynched after all!
@Everyone - Real talk. I apologize if I'm ruining the game for you. I don't have the time to write walls-of-text or ISO every single player. I barely have time to read everything thoroughly. I get my kicks by acting erratically and watching people drive themselves crazy over it
I have not claimed my real character yet. I will not claim my real character unless I reach L-1.
I actually think Lift is scum. This fixation is above and beyond Lift's normal tunnel vision.
I am also suspicious of SirP. He's hopped on a wagon in that critical 50-75% range with a poor reason.
trentonlf
Easily amused
Registered: Apr 2014
From United States
Posted February 05, 2020
I have not claimed my real character yet. I will not claim my real character unless I reach L-1.
I actually think Lift is scum. This fixation is above and beyond Lift's normal tunnel vision.
I am also suspicious of SirP. He's hopped on a wagon in that critical 50-75% range with a poor reason.
@everyone, It seems agent is headed toward a lynch and in my opinion it's a bad lynch. agent has been pushed into corners on flimsy reasons and so when he does input his opinion on the state of the game people start twisting it to look bad. If it's not obvious I think agent is Town, and if I'm wrong I'll be surprised.
It's Day 1 and we have little to nothing to go on, so at this point everything is based off more of a gut feeling than any concreted evidence. My gut is telling me that
1) agent and yogsloth are probably Town and I will not vote either.
2) SPF and Micro have been the scummiest in their play with Lift coming in a close third. I hesitate on LIft as I can't tell yet if this is him getting to focused on someone aggressively like he does or if it's scum Lift trying to push an easy lynch.
3) My opinion of Carradice is starting to shift and would be hard pressed to vote them now also.
4) I can't tell if FlockeSchnee is just a Town player coming to the wrong conclusions or if he's scum trying to find reasons to make people look scummy. The same goes for Joe.
5) Pooka is way too quiet, and it's starting to give me a bad vibe like he's trying to just blend into the background and go unnoticed while Town tears itself apart (as is typical on most Day 1's)
6) RW is hard for me to get a read on right now. I've seen him play the perfect scum game and it's very hard for me to tell the difference between his Town and scum games.
7) GameRager and ConsulCaesar keep swinging back and forth for me, they make a good post and then make comments that give me pause as to what they are trying to accomplish.
8) joppo I have no read on, he's quiet and I can't tell if he's trying to stay in the background as well or if he's just got first game jitters.
joppo
Gog's decision makers R terrible @ their jobs
Registered: Dec 2011
From Brazil
Posted February 05, 2020
In the end it doesn't matter how many factions there are. You see scumminess, build a case, convince your townmates, we lynch. Period.
If we hit a PR that townie with our lynch has a damned good reason to claim before the hammer hits, and if the PR is good enough they will probably be spared. In that case you might think they will be the NK, but for a townie that was as good as dead (lynched) they're at least drawing the NK away from another townie.
Lifthrasil, (he's been talking about what was in his private message which basically clears him, I don't approve but I'm not going to ignore it)
ConsulCaesar, (again, it's not social deduction, so it's not big or clever, but here Caesar says he thinks we should claim our names because the game probs doesn't expect us to have HP knowledge, and here zfr intervenes to say "you may not NEED HP knowledge but that's not to say HP knowledge wouldn't be helpful.
@Trent: see the above. (not a vote in this line)
Carradice
Orlanthi
Registered: Mar 2013
From Spain
Posted February 05, 2020
Could anyone plz summarize the case against Agent? He is at minus-3 and the strongest against him are his terrible jokes, that have been taken seriously once and again. Except for Lift, if memory does not fail, who expressed the Votus as a way on enforcing a strict no-lying policy on D-1.
Also, it is surprising how that joking stuff has escalated into this. Are not the handling of PMs and the acts of apparent fishing better matters of discussion?
===============
About @Flocke’s long post: Sure it looks like tinfoils and chemtrails the first time that you read it, until you understand that what he meant was that he had noticed something weird and was asking for additional analysis. Then @Trent replied, so, what @Flocke found might be just to buddies who have played a lot together. Which sounds all right for now. People new to the game couldn’t possibly know that in advance, so @Flocke’s concern sounds legit, too.
===============
@Micro’s post #309, the math for the second option (no Votus) does not add up
>>IF we lose two players a day without getting scum, we go from 14 (D1)-12 (d2)-10(d3)-8(d4)-6(d5) at which point, with three scum, we have lost. If we have a neutral player or a SK, we have lost sooner if we fail to hit scum. Even if we get 2 baddies on the first night (like my last game) we can still lose (Pooka pocketed me into oblivion that game).
If we don't vote, we are 14D1, 13D2, 11D3, 9D4, 7D5, which--if we have yet to hit scum--leaves us at 4-3 and MYLO/LYLO (i forget which atm and can't be bothered to check). `
Why the change of step from 1 to 2 in D3? Decidedly a non-Euclidian geometry here, or trying to prod people to lynch with so much enthusiasm that he got carried away out of enthusiasm.
Nothing especially significant, only that something like this should not be let it slip unnoticed.
===============
Really torn appart, here, because the most solid issue now seems to be the fishing thing (the most solid, not the only one). However, it is really hard to vote for someone new in his first week, even if he looks the most suspicious right now. But it is not possible to consciously vote for someone who has a lesser chance of being an enemy of Town. It is either that or not voting.
So, let us put our vote where our voices are, on the option that currently looks the most solid one. In this case:
Votus ConsulCaesar.
Also, it is surprising how that joking stuff has escalated into this. Are not the handling of PMs and the acts of apparent fishing better matters of discussion?
===============
About @Flocke’s long post: Sure it looks like tinfoils and chemtrails the first time that you read it, until you understand that what he meant was that he had noticed something weird and was asking for additional analysis. Then @Trent replied, so, what @Flocke found might be just to buddies who have played a lot together. Which sounds all right for now. People new to the game couldn’t possibly know that in advance, so @Flocke’s concern sounds legit, too.
===============
@Micro’s post #309, the math for the second option (no Votus) does not add up
>>IF we lose two players a day without getting scum, we go from 14 (D1)-12 (d2)-10(d3)-8(d4)-6(d5) at which point, with three scum, we have lost. If we have a neutral player or a SK, we have lost sooner if we fail to hit scum. Even if we get 2 baddies on the first night (like my last game) we can still lose (Pooka pocketed me into oblivion that game).
If we don't vote, we are 14D1, 13D2, 11D3, 9D4, 7D5, which--if we have yet to hit scum--leaves us at 4-3 and MYLO/LYLO (i forget which atm and can't be bothered to check). `
Why the change of step from 1 to 2 in D3? Decidedly a non-Euclidian geometry here, or trying to prod people to lynch with so much enthusiasm that he got carried away out of enthusiasm.
Nothing especially significant, only that something like this should not be let it slip unnoticed.
===============
Really torn appart, here, because the most solid issue now seems to be the fishing thing (the most solid, not the only one). However, it is really hard to vote for someone new in his first week, even if he looks the most suspicious right now. But it is not possible to consciously vote for someone who has a lesser chance of being an enemy of Town. It is either that or not voting.
So, let us put our vote where our voices are, on the option that currently looks the most solid one. In this case:
Votus ConsulCaesar.
Microfish_1
I'm not a duck
Registered: Dec 2017
From United States
Posted February 05, 2020
>>IF we lose two players a day without getting scum, we go from 14 (D1)-12 (d2)-10(d3)-8(d4)-6(d5) at which point, with three scum, we have lost. If we have a neutral player or a SK, we have lost sooner if we fail to hit scum. Even if we get 2 baddies on the first night (like my last game) we can still lose (Pooka pocketed me into oblivion that game).
If we don't vote, we are 14D1, 13D2, 11D3, 9D4, 7D5, which--if we have yet to hit scum--leaves us at 4-3 and MYLO/LYLO (i forget which atm and can't be bothered to check). `
Why the change of step from 1 to 2 in D3? Decidedly a non-Euclidian geometry here, or trying to prod people to lynch with so much enthusiasm that he got carried away out of enthusiasm.
Nothing especially significant, only that something like this should not be let it slip unnoticed.
d1 town does nothing=14 players. n1 scum lunches someone=13 players @start of d2
d2 town lunches = 12 players. n2 scum lunches=11 players start of d3
d3 town lunches = 10 players left. n3 scum lunches. 9 players alive at start of d4
and so on
the math adds up perfectly. the only way it wouldn't happen if we no lunched is if the scum decided to not NK in order to sow more confusion.
the only thing no-lunching does is shift the momentum of which side eliminates a player first.
the only way eliminating Agent would be awful is if he is town PR. bad enough if he is town vanilla, but we can live and lunch lift for being the driving force of agents lunch.
SPF is sadly normal so far.
ZFR looks fishy.
Joe & Pooka feel off to me (joe way more so than Pooks, but i cannot put my finger on exactly why Joe is so off. he just seems...different.
my name is catte
i touch your foods
Registered: Mar 2010
From United Kingdom
Posted February 05, 2020
You, earlier in the same post:
...
You actually believe every claim I've made, don't you? Well then, don't tell anyone but *whispers* I'm actually Dumbledore in disguise. This is the most fun I've had since --SPOILERS--.
@Everyone - Real talk. I apologize if I'm ruining the game for you. I don't have the time to write walls-of-text or ISO every single player. I barely have time to read everything thoroughly. I get my kicks by acting erratically and watching people drive themselves crazy over it
>thinks that's a bad reason for someone to vote for them
My place in the wagon is simply a consequence of when I've had time to play. I'd have voted you immediately after your last claim if I'd been present.
Well that's my break done. See y'all sometime after 16:30 UTC.
ConsulCaesar
Crossing the Rubicon
Registered: Jan 2017
From Spain
Posted February 05, 2020
Just to take a stance, as everybody else has:
Votus Lifthrasil
Unless we decide that we want to hear agent's "serious" claim and we agree to get him to L-1 without lynching him prematurely.
Votus Lifthrasil
Unless we decide that we want to hear agent's "serious" claim and we agree to get him to L-1 without lynching him prematurely.
ZFR
I love gold!
Registered: Jan 2010
From Ireland
Posted February 05, 2020
Votus Conputatio
agent 5 - RWarehall, Lift, Micro, Joe, SirPrimalform
Lift 3 - Pooka, agent, ConsulCaesar
Microfish 2 - trent, yogsloth
ConsulCaesar 2 - joppo, Carradice
yogs 1 - FlockeShnee
No-lynch 1 - GameRager
Everyone else - 0
Not voting -
14 players remaining - it takes 8 to lynch.
agent is closest at L-3
When you see a vote count, please let me know if your name is against the wrong person.
agent 5 - RWarehall, Lift, Micro, Joe, SirPrimalform
Lift 3 - Pooka, agent, ConsulCaesar
Microfish 2 - trent, yogsloth
ConsulCaesar 2 - joppo, Carradice
yogs 1 - FlockeShnee
No-lynch 1 - GameRager
Everyone else - 0
Not voting -
14 players remaining - it takes 8 to lynch.
agent is closest at L-3
When you see a vote count, please let me know if your name is against the wrong person.
Post edited February 05, 2020 by ZFR
Microfish_1
I'm not a duck
Registered: Dec 2017
From United States
Posted February 05, 2020
the thing is...we can't quote our PMs, and noone wants to say what theirs is, and yet this has been bugging me.
agent is righter than lift about the town pm. maybe this gave something away to scum. i hope not.
Pooka sadly lacking, yet i read him as leaning town. But...he has hoodwinked me every single time. Ought I to read him as scummy because I see him as town? Maybe. I really want to read more of him and iso everyone.
Agent is ruining the game for me, i'm just seeing him as scummier than lift...mostly. Lift has better logic, except agent knows stuff that almost clears him.
Not sure about Caesar or Flockeschee, but i will not vote them on d1.
GR looks less town than he had.
Carradice I am reading as town.
Trent is meh, so far. SPF is also meh.
Joppo is...idk.
Yogs is yogs? idk him enough to tell.
ALSO @ everyone-but-especially-those-who-haven't-played-mafia-on-gog-before. If you don't use it already, you really should get tampermonkey & the two extensions "Adalia Fundamentals" & "Barefoot Essentials." They help so much
... and I'm still a rotten player!
If we get to Friday and he still looks worst, i'll vote for agent, but... pressure is not always bad.
I'm going to gamble that we won't reach L1 in the next 8 hours and go to bed.
Rtas, I can't leave it to chance like this. If no better alternative appears by late Friday, I'll hammer agent to avoid a NL.
@zfr unvote Agent for now
agent is righter than lift about the town pm. maybe this gave something away to scum. i hope not.
Pooka sadly lacking, yet i read him as leaning town. But...he has hoodwinked me every single time. Ought I to read him as scummy because I see him as town? Maybe. I really want to read more of him and iso everyone.
Agent is ruining the game for me, i'm just seeing him as scummier than lift...mostly. Lift has better logic, except agent knows stuff that almost clears him.
Not sure about Caesar or Flockeschee, but i will not vote them on d1.
GR looks less town than he had.
Carradice I am reading as town.
Trent is meh, so far. SPF is also meh.
Joppo is...idk.
Yogs is yogs? idk him enough to tell.
ALSO @ everyone-but-especially-those-who-haven't-played-mafia-on-gog-before. If you don't use it already, you really should get tampermonkey & the two extensions "Adalia Fundamentals" & "Barefoot Essentials." They help so much
... and I'm still a rotten player!
If we get to Friday and he still looks worst, i'll vote for agent, but... pressure is not always bad.
I'm going to gamble that we won't reach L1 in the next 8 hours and go to bed.
Rtas, I can't leave it to chance like this. If no better alternative appears by late Friday, I'll hammer agent to avoid a NL.
@zfr unvote Agent for now
PookaMustard
モニカ。モニカだけ。
Registered: Jun 2013
From Other
Posted February 05, 2020
Now, for the whole no-lynch idea: no. Just plain no. Wagon analysis will give us something to work with down the line. Figuring out who has done a nightkill can only take you so far. Besides, the odds for hitting scum on a no-lynch is 0%, but the odds for hitting scum on a lynch is higher than 0%. The risk is worth the reward.
Yeah, I'm not a fan of Agent claiming a different role every two minutes. I passed the joke claim at the beginning, thought it OK by early Day 1 standards, but...gah. The time for jokes is over. This is another one of those Day 1s where so many things are going on, and here he is just not helping. I also like how his wagon grew to 5 people in such a short amount of time, while Lift's couldn't even lift-off*. The frequent joke claims hint at a jester (fittingly enough) but the wagon growth seems to indicate opportunistic mafiosos are hopping on.
I am also interested in what FlockeSchnee posted, since it implies that yogsloth and trent are communicating via coded messages. I've just skimmed through the game again and only the three instances Flocke brought up are what's present, but the pattern is clear: Yogs repeats something three times, Trent follows it with a change in vote. I read this yesterday and expected it to be a topic of interest for the players, but disappointingly it was forgotten. Would scum secret communicate like that? Yes I know scum have their own chat, but in most games here you are not allowed to use the scum chat during the day - scummy yogs+trent would make sense if they can't use it now. The more pressing question is how do they agree on this secret code? If they can't use day chat now, then it would have to be done before Day 1 started, so a pre-game phase of sorts (doesn't seem likely), or on Day 1 itself in the open...look, it's improbable given what we know, but like Flocke said in his original post, I can't unsee it. It happened thrice without fail.
I'm still sticking to my Lift wagon but would lynch Agent if he's still leading the wagon by Friday night or Saturday morning. No other strong leads apart from yogs+trent.
*you can kill me