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General discussionHarry Potter and GOG Mafia #64(1552 posts)(1552 posts)
(1552 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted February 05, 2020
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agentcarr16: For what it's worth, I'm actually Viktor Krum from Durmstrang and I'm going to steal all your ladies.
Which would fit very well with a neutral third party role. Combined with you assumption that non-Gryffindor means non-Town, which, as I assumed might come from you being non-Town, this fits. ... So, you are non- or even anti-Town.

@others: what else do you need? Do you believe that this was another joke-claim?

@those who haven't read HP: Durmstrang is a foreign school that actually teaches the Dark Arts. Not only defense against them, like Hogwarts does. So, they are not part of the 'houses' system of Hogwarts and, while not an actual enemy, decidedly darkish.
Posted February 05, 2020
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trentonlf: Day 1, a no lynch happens. So we start Day 2 with more than likely a dead Townie and no real information to go on because there’s no wagon to examine, no seeing who avoided lynching someone and for what reason/s, no real information to go on. So Day 2 is basically Day 1 all over again.
1. It's better than starting day 2 with two dead town if we lynched a town by accident.

2. We have all the posts people made so far to analyze, and also who voted what and when the first "day".

3. It wouldn't be day 1 all over again, as if we have a cop/etc they'd likely investigate someone and then hopefully drop breadcrumbs with their result. We'd also likely be able to think on who(if anyone) got NKd and why and use that and the previous "day's" data to hopefully figure out who to go after.

We'd also have one less person to choose from to pick to lynch and have a slightly higher(not much but a bit) chance to hit scum due to a smaller player pool.

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trentonlf: Maybe we get lucky and have an investigative role that has found scum, and that is only a maybe. More likely is any investigative role will have found a Town player and will not say anything so as not to reveal themselves and continue to use their ability and hope they are not killed or lynched.
Or the COP could(if need be) reveal themselves and reveal some of the info they gained(if they investigated a town) to get that town to hopefully corroborate the info and prove that cop/etc was town. Then we'd just need to hope we had a town PR that could protect that cop so they could go one to investigate some more.

Add to that that a cop investigating a town and the town corroborating their info would also "vet"(correct term?) or verify two town for the rest of the town players as well.

To all: What do you think of the above musings/ideas in this bit, btw?

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trentonlf: Now a good lynch gives all kinds of info, and it truly doesn’t matter if it’s a Town player or scum Day 1, as long as it’s someone being lynched for legit reasons (not “I’m just voting them to avoid a no lynch” or “they are not showing up to play so I’m voting them”).
And if we hit a PR we'd be down one important town....also with number of town we have couldn't a town be lynched with very few scum needing to also vote? And if so then we'd have to try and figure out who among the voters was scum or not, which might lead to another town being lynched if we picked incorrectly.

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trentonlf: So let’s LYNCH someone!
If scum want to stand up and say(figuratively or literally) that they're scum then fine, i'd vote for them....until that happens or unless we could puzzle out someone sure to be scum I don't think your idea is wise.

Of course i'm a newb(due to my playstyle more than number of games), so take the above with a grain of salt as always.
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agentcarr16: For what it's worth, I'm actually Viktor Krum from Durmstrang and I'm going to steal all your ladies.
Lol....though if this/any other of your "claim posts" turns out to be true i'm gonna be lolling even more for not seeing it.

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agentcarr16: Alternatively, willing to vote Microfish_1 or GameRager for voting for Dumbledore. Our esteemed headmaster is too important to get caught up in this petty game. Also, it's just a really really bad idea to no-lynch on D1.
Dunno about Micro(I forget details as I play and i'd need to re-read for anything not i n my notes), but as I said: I don't want to mislynch a town(and we could hit one very easily at this point), I play more for fun than winning & according to my whims sometimes(so I sometimes do weird things people not see as town), and I want to wait and see if any potential cop/etc PR finds anything useful to us town.
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Microfish_1: Meh, not totes convinced about bad-lunch better than no-lunch, but i'll go along with you this time.

I'm tossing my support for now behind Lift, although I totally don't see his attacks on pooka (other than maybe tunneling).
Agent is just scummy enough that--while I'm not convinced yet and might change my mind, I'll go back to my vote on him. I'll look stupid if he is town, but i feel he is more town than not.
Wha?!? Why the sudden shift? Just because of his recent saying that he'd be willing to vote for you or something else besides that(I am guessing it's the latter?)?

As for me: I don't feel like lunch atm.....maybe some breakfast perhaps. :D

(i.e. Even though agent is on my top suspect list[along with Lift and a few others] I don't want to get him lynched and possibly lose a fellow town....damn, choosing what to do is hard.....know what I mean?)
Posted February 05, 2020
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Microfish_1: NICE conflict here between lift & Agent. It would be a real shame if they both were town. I'm going to vote for who i think is most likely scum, but if they are town i know who my D2 vote will be.
I have a hard time seeing them both as town, especially after lift pursuing him so aggresively at the beginning for the "joke".

But...

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agentcarr16: Regardless, my vote stays where it is. Lifthrasil has an anti-Town fixation upon NAI issues, such as my jokes.

For what it's worth, I'm actually Viktor Krum from Durmstrang and I'm going to steal all your ladies.
You know when a joke stops being a joke/funny? Yeah.

Both would make fine cop/roleblocker targets for me.
Posted February 05, 2020
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Lifthrasil: @others: what else do you need? Do you believe that this was another joke-claim?
It could go either way, tbh.....a bold scum trying to blend in, or a town just having fun.

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Lifthrasil: @those who haven't read HP: Durmstrang is a foreign school that actually teaches the Dark Arts. Not only defense against them, like Hogwarts does. So, they are not part of the 'houses' system of Hogwarts and, while not an actual enemy, decidedly darkish.
But not dark enough to be banned from the Tri-Wizard tournament, etc. They seem(imo) more like the edgy hot topics workers/shoppers of the dark arts(from what little I know of them, anyways).

Also this is assuming Agent's claim is genuine and not a joke(as I think it still might be).
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ConsulCaesar: You know when a joke stops being a joke/funny? Yeah.
It reminds me of how scene kept at his style of play in SH even when people got sick to tears with it.....not fun to watch but I can at least respect their tenacity/commitment.

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ConsulCaesar: Both would make fine cop/roleblocker targets for me.
Lift/agent? Or Micro/agent? If the former then agreed.
Posted February 05, 2020
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ConsulCaesar: Both would make fine cop/roleblocker targets for me.
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GameRager: Lift/agent? Or Micro/agent? If the former then agreed.
Lift as first choice, agent as second.
Posted February 05, 2020
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Microfish_1: @ZFR - chalk another tick mark on the board for agentcarr to be taken to lunch!
If this was meant as a vote, can you please post it in the "Votus/Spell_name X" format?

Thanks.

(I'm not trying to make people's life difficult here, but this will prevent ambiguous votes from happening when it really matters. Like MYLO or LYLO).
Posted February 05, 2020
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ConsulCaesar: Lift as first choice, agent as second.
Good picks.....though if agent ends up falling into the lynchity pit of lynch by the end of day 1 we'd only need to investigate/block one of them.
Posted February 05, 2020
You cannot win with investigations alone. What makes anyone think a Cop can even be protected? Ever hear of the Strongman power? And if you could win just by investigating, what's the point of playing if power roles rule all? The game is balanced to force us to chose widely to win with special powers sparse enough they might help a bit but are not enough to win by themselves.

Furthermore, what voting record do you have on a no-lynch? All a no-lynch does is give scum a free kill.

Seems to me, all Agent wants to do this game is joke around and make a bunch of low effort accusations. GameRager is scum because he claims Ravenclaw? He clearly isn't even really reading the game. Lift is scum because he's going after you for only "joking around"? Or your 2 other low effort votes to lynch people for suggesting a no-lynch. You act as if doing nothing is so NAI that no one should vote you? The only thing that makes me think you might be Town is the way you pulled the PM card...which I totally hate. PMs are not supposed to be "Get Out of Jail Free" cards for play which makes one appear scummy.

Agent, how about you start actually playing the game...how about building an actual case on more than just one surface level read? Maybe besides "making no-lynch vote" or "voting you for joking", you give us other reasons you think they might be scum to make a real case, show us you are actually trying.

And to the no-lynchers...how about you start playing too. I think ZFR said we have until Saturday, we have 3 days to reach a consensus and you are throwing your hands in the air and giving up. We learn the most when we try to reach consensus, and see who is putting their votes where their mouth is.

@Trent - Personally I think PM discussion should NEVER happen. No one should be trying to abuse the rules of the game. I like these games with flavour, but if players are going to take advantage of that flavour, expect games with terse PMs in the future. There is a difference between a PM discussion and a claim. I'm unhappy with both Lift and Agent on this, because Lift similarly abused the PM. Just like last game where no one was supposed to claim their character names, but "Angel" gets dropped so everyone knows it's a Casteal claim...

Let me be clear. I don't have a problem with the mechanical discussion of the roles themselves, how many might be from a particular house, just don't try to use the flavour to break the game by looking for particular words or phrases that should be code for the rest of Team Good.
Posted February 05, 2020
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Lifthrasil: Which would fit very well with a neutral third party role. Combined with you assumption that non-Gryffindor means non-Town, which, as I assumed might come from you being non-Town, this fits. ... So, you are non- or even anti-Town.

@others: what else do you need? Do you believe that this was another joke-claim?

@those who haven't read HP: Durmstrang is a foreign school that actually teaches the Dark Arts. Not only defense against them, like Hogwarts does. So, they are not part of the 'houses' system of Hogwarts and, while not an actual enemy, decidedly darkish.
Thanks for the refresher, I had no recollection. I think this might be a joke, but I am becoming very concerned about all the changes of names (this is the third?). Even aside from the PMs, I think your conclusion that he is non-town seems to agree with my concerns stated before. (Are you copying me?).

The thing is, the sample PM doesn't say we have to kill neutrals, just enemies. Thus this is potentially a waste, but at least it isn't town.
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GameRager: snip
@GR: I get what you are saying, and I have seen town PRs lunched way too quickly. This is a potential issue. More on this later. If Agent is a town PR, I hope he puts up an extremely good defense that blows us away.
As for the sudden shift, while I know that being eliminated is unfun, and while i am not 100% convinced of Agents culpability, I am willing to bet he's not town more than anyone else. Of course, if he is town, I'm targeting lift, and I think the rest ought to as well. I am split about D1 lunches, but the benefits as presented by the very experienced players seem to outweigh the cons.

IF we lose two players a day without getting scum, we go from 14 (D1)-12 (d2)-10(d3)-8(d4)-6(d5) at which point, with three scum, we have lost. If we have a neutral player or a SK, we have lost sooner if we fail to hit scum. Even if we get 2 baddies on the first night (like my last game) we can still lose (Pooka pocketed me into oblivion that game).
If we don't vote, we are 14D1, 13D2, 11D3, 9D4, 7D5, which--if we have yet to hit scum--leaves us at 4-3 and MYLO/LYLO (i forget which atm and can't be bothered to check).
If we have a SK, all bets are off and we lose by 14D1, 11D2, 8D3, 5 & lost by D4.
I don't wanna think about 2 SKs or lovers or any other potential complications yet.

>>Bottom line. Town has to hit scum or lose by D6 anyway. I have great aspirations that we can do this. Every confidence that we might.
Your "no vote" argument seems to favor the scum more than us town, unless you have a win condition of "must live" and you want as few lunched as possible. I think atm that any info is better than no info, as the alternative is D2, one fewer player, still no idea who to trust.
Your entire argument is based off of Agent being a PR or a cop being willing to ID himself on D2 to clear Agent. I don't see the later happening. ('Twould be foolish in the extreme...like putting mayo on peanut butter. Disgusting, I'd say, unless one was forced to do so.)

Anyway, let's not have any more whinging or chuntering about this, but accept that anything is better than nothing. There is a 1/14 chance that Agent is cop. 0.07%--very small compared to the chance he isn't cop (92.857%). Not knowing how many town PRs there are, i cannot say for certainty what the chance is that he has any PR.

If you are scum, I have this to say to you and your coterie: be done with your prating and flimflam--it isn't going to work. In fact, the conspicuous number of times that you have referred to how bad of a player you are or that your preferred playstyle is "to have fun regardless of winning" makes me sadly suspect you of being less town than you claim. It reminds me of my comment which was dismissed as an AtE last fall.
(If GR is scum, #307 strikes me as coaching.
If he is not scum, this is just being helpful.)

(For those who don't know/remember, AtE=Appeal To Emotion.)

I hope you have the perspicacity to join me in the democratic action of voting for someone.

In fact, typing this out has led me to stop mammering and:

@ZFR: I VOTE AGENT
Posted February 05, 2020
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GameRager: 1. It's better than starting day 2 with two dead town if we lynched a town by accident.
Wrong. We need information to solve this game. We get information from flips and from analyzing lynch wagons. Try to spin your thought further. If we don't lynch on Day 1, we start Day 2 basically in the same situation as Day 1. Minus one Townie. ... Again we have nothing to work with, no way of finding out who scum is. So your argument "better don't lynch to avoid lynching a Townie" is again as (in)valid as it is now.

If we keep following your 'logic', we keep no-lynching. Scum keep killing. We lose.

Especially on Day 1, no-lynch is the worst that can happen to Town. That's both game logic and experience.

You want to base everything on the power roles - of which we don't even know which ones exist. If they exist at all. Or if they'll survive long enough to be useful, if they exist.

So, again, and this is also a notice to all newbies:

No-lynch is very, very bad for Town and therefore voting no-lynch is something which is either scummy or a newbie-error. It's never in the interest of Town on Day 1.
Posted February 05, 2020
Got a bit of a break at work, reading now.
Posted February 05, 2020
Votus Conputatio

agent 3 - RWarehall, Lift, Micro
Lift 2 - Pooka, agent
Microfish 2 - trent, yogsloth
SPF 1 - Joe
yogs 1 - FlockeShnee
ConsulCaesar 1 - joppo

No-lynch 1 - GameRager

Everyone else - 0
Not voting - SirPrimalform, Carradice, ConsulCaesar

14 players remaining - it takes 8 to lynch.

When you see a vote count, please let me know if your name is against the wrong person.
Posted February 05, 2020
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Microfish_1: PPS Can anyone confirm that their name is in fact from the HP universe?
Stop fishing.

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ConsulCaesar: Good catch. He is distancing himself in case agent has played a masterful trick. Kind of a reverse Lift.
Nope. See my replies to trent on the subject. Lift's joke/lying thing by itself is not a good case for lynching Agent. That doesn't mean it doesn't count for anything and should be disregarded as part of a broader case.

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agentcarr16: You claimed a house other than Gryffindor and we know that after all only Gryffindor really matters. I'm not sure that that phrase means non-Gryffindor is non-Town, but I think it's a good guess.
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Lifthrasil: This is nonsense. That post clearly states that it is three houses against Slytherin. If you were actually Town, you would also know that it is all houses together against Slytherin. Our task is quite clearly NOT to compete against other houses, but we all have the joint task of defeating Slytherin.

The fact that you don't know this makes it very likely that you are scum. Probably you see Gryffindor as your opponent and disregard the other houses in typical Slytherin fashion. Frankly, I don't see any way how you can be from any Town-house and not know that you're in league with the other two Town-houses. And this statement by you really doesn't read like a joke anymore. So I recon it's a genuine slip.

secumsempra agentcarr
Good, this is better reasoning for voting agent than I've seen from you up until this point. It's not amazing, but it's better.
This kind of PM analysis thing is kind of wishy-washy unless it's like what Scene did when he fake-quoted his PM and then wasn't modkilled.

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agentcarr16: If you were actually Town. This must refer to something in a Town player's PM, because otherwise there's no ACTUALLY about it. It would be open information to all players.

As Town, there is nothing in my PM stating that "it is all houses together against Slytherin." Nor is there anything stating that "we all have the joint task of defeating Slytherin." Indeed, there's nothing in the PUBLICLY AVAILABLE Town PM stating that the goal of Town is anything other than elminating all threats to Town.

You not knowing this can only mean that you were writing based on your memory of your PM, which was NOT a Town PM, and that you didn't bother to check the OP for the actual Town PMs.

Again:

Vote Lifthrasil

You're obviously not Town, which is good enough for me.
This is even more wishy-washy.

You're both making weak cases against each other and voting for each other.
It's enough to make me wonder if this is distancing and you've picked weak arguments to reduce the risk of actually having to lynch each other?
Posted February 05, 2020
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SirPrimalform: You're both making weak cases against each other and voting for each other.
It's enough to make me wonder if this is distancing and you've picked weak arguments to reduce the risk of actually having to lynch each other?
Nope. I actually want to lynch agent. I'm quite confident that he is either scum or neutral, at this point. In any case not Town. Check his last claim.
Posted February 05, 2020
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trentonlf: I your weird ramblings you seem to try and imply that yogsloth and me are scum tongether, and seeing as I’m not scum that would be an impossibility. My gut tells me yogsloth is town and if that is the case then we are 100% on the same team.

Now try to put on your reading glasses or your thinking cap, whatever will make things more clear for you, and go back and read over the game again because whatever you’ve ascertained so far regarding me is wrong if it’s anything other than that I’m town.
^ I don't like this at all.
Trent admits that he believes yogsloth is town with little evidence - which would be enough on its own to suspect that they're on a team together. Then this instruction to go and read the game again implying that Trent's town-ness should be evident to day one by anybody who is thinking clear. No I don't like it at all.

BUT.

*sigh*

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agentcarr16: For what it's worth, I'm actually Viktor Krum from Durmstrang and I'm going to steal all your ladies.
...

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Lifthrasil: @others: what else do you need? Do you believe that this was another joke-claim?
I think it might be another joke claim. Whether it is or not it's the wrong thing to say now. If it's a joke it's not funny and it's just presenting more opportunity to be misinterpreted. If it's true you shouldn't be roleclaiming day one without reason.

unvotus SirPrimalform

disparagio AgentCarr


Joe Wants to Lynch -
Trent, (weirdly aggressive-defensive)

Joe Thinks Are Town -
Lifthrasil, (he's been talking about what was in his private message which basically clears him, I don't approve but I'm not going to ignore it)
ConsulCaesar, (again, it's not social deduction, so it's not big or clever, but Caesar says he thinks we should claim our names because the game probs doesn't expect us to have HP knowledge, and [url=https://www.gog.com/forum/general/harry_potter_and_gog_mafia_64/post236]here zfr intervenes to say "you may not NEED HP knowledge but that's not to say HP knowledge wouldn't be helpful.

Hmm...

I guess it's ambiguous but I sort-of assumed ZFR was intervening because he was worried that a mass name-claim would be game breaking. I guess it didn't need to be that...

So it's possible that a mass-name-claim WOULDN'T be game breaking, in which case Caesar shouldn't be cleared.

But for now I'm going to work on the assumptions that:
- A mass name claim would be bad form/game breaking
- Caesar didn't know that.

Again, I'm not proud of myself but it's happened now,)



I don't have much else to say as my time is quite packed this week, and it will be more hectic next week so I'm going to struggle then too but I'll attempt to power through and hopefully see most of you on the other side. I wish I had more thoughts but I haven't even sat down and worked out who everybody is yet.
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This is my favourite topic
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General discussionHarry Potter and GOG Mafia #64(1552 posts)(1552 posts)
(1552 posts)