The other artifact mentioned is not a typo either.

For SPF it's post 106 that I don't like. He is basically saying that he reserves the right to later come back and say that agent is scum for the comment he made about being Slytherin but for now he will let it pass as a Joke. If you read his initial reaction here he states that agent is either scum and didn't read the rules or is Town and false claiming with rule reading optional. Very next post I point out that he's probably making a joke to which he states that's what he meant with Town and false claiming with rule reading optional (I don't see that as saying he thought it was a joke). Makes several other post trying to say he just thought it was a joke and then finally ends up with post 106 saying he will give him a pass for now but it might count against him later. Why? If it's going to count against him later it should count against him now. Trying to reserve the right to come back later and call someone scum for a post that you are calling a joke right now is a scummy play in my opinion so it gets my vote.

As for Lift, Carradice, RW, or Pooka when I posted that they were the 4 other people that I was getting a less than town vibe from their posts and on Day 1 there's not much else to go on so they are who I would vote.

Also FlockeSchnee, if you think I would just fish for a reason to vote someone you've never played with me before. I don't do that as scum or town, I vote who I think is acting scummy (even when I'm scum). Whether you believe me or not is your prerogative, and if you don't or you think I'm doing it as scum then you should vote me.

Erm...

Unvotus RWarehall

Votus GameRager

I suspect you may not be Town, which is a better option than anything else on the table right now.

Can vouch for this.

Fair enough, but why? Is it for any reason other than I claimed a house and a few others decided town shouldn't do that later on in the game? Or just that reason?

Also as per your suspect list: no one else seems more suspicious atm than me? Truly?

So here goes. I once read that if you're mafia, then your goal is to sit back and have Town annihilate itself, and not be its subject. But if you're its subject, then the scum would want to divert the attention of Town's anger. To put it in practice, if we assume Lift is scum, what are his motivations for taking a hardliner stance on LAL, and enact it on Agent? I'll write as I analyze.

> Page 1 (Posts 1-50):
The game starts off with me voting Lift, because of course, I'm an odd fellow. A couple posts later and he just gets 3 votes, back to two before the page ends. Agent's accursed joke claim is , and right off its heels, comes [url=https://www.gog.com/forum/general/harry_potter_and_gog_mafia_64/post15]Lift saying he outed himself as scum. But it gets better. #28 has Lift reiterate that it's possible Agent outed himself again, and that his joke hides actual scumminess. #32 he responds to me saying until the Pwen, he thought Agent was smart not to do this.

From the get-go and he was pushing this whole "Agent's claim is suspicious" thing, setting it up for the crescendo that would come later. But why? There needs to be 8 votes before a lynch may happen, and he only got two, and three very briefly, so if he were scum who was desperate for a diversion, Page 1 was not the appropriate time. Unless of course he was setting it up so that he can use it later, maybe in hopes of getting Town's anger to fall on him. The only reason I'd see for getting Agent lynched Day 1 is that Agent knows how to breadcrumb (see #63 Supernatural).


> Page 2 (Posts 51-100):
Agent points to his post in the previous ask, jokingly saying "spot the three lies" and that's when Lift gets even grander, and supposedly turning his then RVS vote into a real one because..."you['re trying] to establish lying as valid joke." Now that I've been writing this wall of text, this is getting even iffier. It's like Lift got more ammo for his agenda on Agent.

Hmmm, actually it's the "trying to establish lying as a joke" that's bugging me. I mean yes, the whole joke is about lying, but..."establishing" implies Agent is going to lie AND announce he's brazenly lying again and again, which I don't believe is sustainable Slytherin gameplay. Could work for some WIFOM, but not as something that needs to be "established" for the long-term. It wouldn't fly either, since as RWarehall put succinctly, the intent has to be considered.

Agent's claim is seen as a joke claim because 1. Agent already fell into this mistake in a prior game (the Pwen) and paid dearly for it, and 2. he literally ends it by saying he'll go read the rules. Those same rules allude to the "Watcher of Kalunga" incident. My first post also references the incident, and I wouldn't have done if it wasn't for the rules. This doesn't mean that Agent is definitely not Slytherin, as he might be banking on us thinking that he wouldn't do the same mistake twice, but I've seen little to think he's some cunning WIFOM master Slyth.


> Page 3 (Posts 101-150)
Up until the previous page, I think that a zealous Town Lift is as likely as a Slyth Lift, but this is where he swings towards the latter. My favorite is #103. This is where he frames Agent as either scum, or lying, and therefore deserving of lynch either way, and you've seen how he backtracked when I confronted him. Honestly? Agent doesn't seem that much of a threat to scum OR to town. Up until post #103, he's what I'd call "just there." Not admirable, but not horrendous either. Lift just made a mountain out of a mole hill.


I wanna go to sleep now, so. I've no idea why a scummy Lift would come down on Agent the way he did. He explained the rationale behind it in a much later post, but it didn't do much to tell me about Lift's actual motives. Would it have been different if it was yogsloth or trent being the first to claim Slyth? But even though I can't make sense of scum Lift's chase, his play style so far is scummy: setting up Agent's joke claim as something damning, framing him as either scum or lying and therefore must be lynched, and finally backtracking and only explaining it in better detail much later. Thinking of him as zealous Town doesn't mix well with his IMO scummy actions. THAT'S IT I'M DONE.

You claimed a house other than Gryffindor and we know that after all only Gryffindor really matters. I'm not sure that that phrase means non-Gryffindor is non-Town, but I think it's a good guess.

No, no one more suspicious. Lift is typically fanatical. I don't think much of RWarehall's posts yet, but I always read his as scummy. Carradice has said a couple of things that strike me wrong, but nothing damning. Will this be changed?

I explained that.....in the books/films Gryffindor is often the focus of both mediums and the one to most often save the day(as evidenced by 3 of the main characters, one of whom is the protagonist whom the series is named after)...it is likely a reference to that aspect of the books/films.

Once again, fair enough.

All the above said, I(for some reason....can't explain in words easily why, though) think Lift's theory(at least I think it was Lift) might hold water...i.e. that other houses house the town's PRs or other factions with similar win conditions to town....and not other houses being scum.

Of course I only have myself and my house to base that off of, so take it for what it's worth.

It would explain why he asked people not to claim houses, and maybe why a few of the others who agreed did as well(i'd need to check the little notes I have and the thread to verify who said it, though).

I find them adequate for being new to the game. Won't touch him day 1 without an actual slip. I'll see what happens the rest of the day and into day 2. Same goes for FlockeSchnee, Carradice and Joppo (although I have Joppo above the line on his own merits. But you are certainly free to prod for more participation.

Note: If I'm wrong about this being their first games, someone can let me know and I'll give then more "consideration".

@Joppo and @GameRager regarding:
Joppo: "As for acceptable lies that he and GR were discussing, the one time I can think lies can only benefit town is if a powerful unlimited investigative PR like a cop needs to claim to out an investigated mafia. In that case I'd say it is more useful to say they are N-shot, now all used, to reduce the chance they're the nightkill."
GameRager: "That seems a good idea for any such power roles, and might be better than claiming vanilla(for town PRs)."

I vehemently disagree. What happens when you claim a 1-shot and get caught visiting someone else later in the game? You have become a liar and deserve your lynch. Furthermore, claiming a 1-shot doesn't get you off the hook. If you had read mafia chat last game, I highly suspected Dedo had more shots but was worried another role might watch or protect him else I would have advocated killing him straight off. Town doesn't outright lie else they better have an ironclad explanation. Dedo only got away with it because he was 100% confirmed because of the game situation.

---------------

Unomgus Yogsloth

Firstus Completus Seriousus Votius AgentCarr16

Anyone else see what is wrong about Post216?

Yeah, I've read the books and watched the movies. I'm aware of Gryffindor's above-average awesomeness in that regard. But ZFR didn't need to say anything about that in the OP and it feels out of place if he didn't mean something by it.

Other factions is my guess. Similar win conditions? Idk. I suppose we'll find out eventually.

Yerk.

Yeah yeah, I made a typo. It should have been "but I always read him as scummy." Lynch me for it. /s

Even if that person lies/lied to give town an edge and/or to keep a PR in the game(not get NKd/etc)?

How is that pro town play(by any town) to follow that stance so strictly, especially if it led to a possible loss of edge to town?

Are you saying town should be truthful and possibly give up any edge instead of lying rarely/when needed and possibly helping town win the game?

As for if you get caught by someone else later....if it's town that helps verify your PR and makes that town want to protect you if possible and keep others from lynching you.....and if it's scum that figures it out, well at least that town PR got to use their ability an extra time or two and help town.

That's why I advocate any town PRs(if asked by other town or scum) to claim vanilla to protect their PR unless they needed to reveal it at that moment to give an even better benefit to town or save their skin.

Yes, Lift said PRs should refuse to claim, but other town would likely use that to suspect them even more.

He voted for me on the basis of likely flavor/fluff text in the OP posts and sees me as most suspicious, perhaps? Or maybe it's his saying stuff while not saying much of anything of note? Or something else?

Just to throw in an opinion: Dumbledore's speech was ambiguous. That has lead to different interpretations. Now, after checking it again, it seems more like either the 'townies' team is made of Gryffindor plus the other Houses, or that it is formed of Gryffindor alone.

The problem with someone claiming a house other than Gryffindor is this: they are expected to be present in numbers, and if someone claims name X, that belongs to Gryffindor (say, like claiming Ron), it is likely that the real Ron will know that for a lie. However, if someone claims, say Hufflepuff, we are not even sure that this House is really present in the game, and even if present, most likely there will be just a token representation of one or two members. This means that a Hufflepuff (or Ravenclaw) name has a higher chance of being impossible to check.

That said, as seen from here, GR is (arguably) not sounding Slytherin (scummy) at the moment.

About his posts being light, it is a convenient meta, no doubt, but, since others will probably attest to that (sorry, had no time to check those past games so far), then that is something to consider.

Also, there are some slips in GR's posts that look mostly like proper for a non-Slyth Little things, but everything counts.

So yes, maybe GR is playing his cards right and fooled this Uniwizard newbie, but, let's say his posts since the beginning of the conversation are a bit like haggis or kidney pie: they look somewhat outlandish, but then it is not so bad.

I appreciate your post.

Don't worry, I still am trying to figure out how to spot things after 4-5 games.

I agree that Agent in #117 is a tad bit late for joking

RW seemed far less engaged than in SH; I would vote for him or agent
Joe leans non-town
Lift Trent Carradice SPF lean town

The rest I am undecided about, but

On general principal I won't vote Joppo, Flakesnow, Caesar, or Sanscript on D1 as they all should experience at least one night action, especially if they are anything other than vanilla town.

@GR re ketchup pic: IC, IC. kids these days. so young and untarnished. no mustard >:(

@lift I hope you feel better soon. I do believe strongly in LAL, but only enforcing it starting on D2. :/

Skimmed thru Post 200

If you saw the episode, you'd know that Cosmo has plenty of mustard....that pic just doesn't show it. :)

Skimming? Skimming?!? Only a scummiest of scum would do THAT......you must be the scuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuum.

Case closed, we've got em boys...time to pack it up and go home. :D

(I am only kidding, in case that wasn't obvious, on this bit......I hope you find something worth commenting on that you can weigh in on form all that you've read or will read, though :))

@Carradice Please make your chart (the scumometer from yesterday, with risk/reward ratios) in Excel or OPpenOffice/Libreoffice and then use snipping tool, screenshot, screenshot to copy & paint to paste or somehow get a picture of your chart as you envision it in your head with the values shown and paste it here.
TY.

Twas me, most of my first game, and my playstyle until i see something. I'm trying to unlearn it, but cut some D1 slack?

You were very confident(?) as a part of the unbeatable duo in mafia chat. You lost, but you were very confident.
Good call about SPF being known as a lurker, almost frustratingly so, sometimes, in early games--but very aggressive in late game.

Also, is "chasmatic" similar to asthmatic? :P I don't know Yogs enough to tell, so I'm interpreting him via my gut & others reactions to him, knowing some of those reactions might be tainted by scum.

Now I have to go check :/

One of those mentioned in the signup thread about it only being their first GOG game, not their first game, as they used to play years ago, at least as I recall w/o checking. Unless it was sancript? Now I'm curious. But lazy. So IDK if i'll check.

Also, interesting about the scumchat, ty.

[read through page 11/post #220]