Hey all, I have a question.

I don't play games as soon as they come out so those reviews are meaningless to me. I read a review ordering the total war games which I found quite useful (as I have no intention of trying all of them), but quickly realised how much the article was undermined by it's lack of mod coverage (a major one fixed the biggest problems of medieval 2, for example)

So, does anyone know a decent site that reviews whole games, including expansions and major mods. Essentially, complete picture reviews of good games, or comparison of a variety of popular but similar games to indicate which ones stand out best.

I don't have the time to play many games at the moment, and less time to shift through games. I'd like to cherry pick some of the best in each category but most review sites (including GOG reviews) tend to be very generous and lack discrimination (and don't include post-release updates and expansions than can massively improve a game).

I plan to open up one during the summer.
If you name a game or series that I've played, I'll write one up for you, but if it's something I haven't seen before, I can't help you.

Sorry, but that title made me lol. When I saw it I thought "Oi veh! not another thread about the crazy schlimazel goy!"

Carry on.

Yea, I was in a bit of a rush. I should have written GOTY. Oh well : /

generally, games can and should only be reviews on their own strengths and not with mods. There should be reviews separately for mods.

Not necessarily. You might be swayed more to buy a game if you learn that there are some really neat mods out there for it.

I see no reason why it can't be included as a side note.

Indeed, I would agree with the above. Mods can affect many different things. They could alter the story line, the mechanics, or add content etc. Lets take Oblivion, if you play the base game it is pretty plain, scaled leveling makes encounters ridiculous (bandits with kings armor for instance), and the story lasts about 20 minutes. Now you could add the Oscuro's Oblivion Overhaul to that which changes the scaled leveling, so enemies stay the same regardless of level. This makes it a very different game. Not to mention the million other mods out there which change everything from graphics to mechanics.

As for expansion packs/GOTY, these tend to just fix bugs and add additional content on, but I see where your coming from. Personally I would look at each game individually myself, screenshots, and write up, and make a decision based on that. Whilst reviews can be helpful I find there is a wide range of reviews, biased, fanboy based, over critical etc. so I don't base decisions off them. really, at the end of the day, you are the one who knows what you like, so you should make up your own mind. If you don't have the time to research, you wont have the time to play anyways.

Because then you are no longer reviewing the game Indeed

Game discussion threads are always welcome. So perhaps just create one asking everyone what they think about whatever game(s) you are considering/curious about. Those kinds of threads usually encourage some pretty enthusiastic participation, which is great!. The general forum could really do with more threads like that if you ask me.

Again, it wouldn't sway your opinion to buy the game any if you know there's a lot of really good mods out there/an active modding community? That's not at least worth MENTIONING?
With that logic, you wouldn't include a mention on whether the community of a fighting game is active or not, and that's a point that would heavily change my decision.

No, there is no logic there. The community is an integral part of the game, same as you would say that a game can be modded and there is a large modding community for it. That's fine, as this is still a review of the actually game. There is a difference between saying a game can be modded, and reviewing individual mods for it.

A game developer should be reviewed based on the strength of their games. Individual, freshly released games should also be assessed on their own merit. (with mod support being considered on the side)

However, I'm looking for a good gaming experience, rather than a good game. If I want to play an amazing story based RPG with strong tactical combat, I don't really care if I have to download a tactical mod to support a base game with an amazing story but so-so tactics. I'm interested in the overall experience.

Likewise, if I want the best total war medieval gaming experience I don't mind if I have to download one or two mods on the side. However, that's not to say I want to download half a dozen mods or end up in a mess of patches. Reviews of particularly good GOTY-style games with a mod or two to really make them shine is what I'm after, because that's how I play games.

In that case, then we're basically on the same page here. I'm of the same opinion you are, having the mod be on the side and not a PRIMARY part of the review, just sort of mentioning that it's present for anybody who's curious. If mods are necessary just to enjoy the game, then yeah, there's no real point in that whatsoever.