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General discussionGog Survey(400 posts)(400 posts)
(400 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted December 26, 2022
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rjbuffchix: Survey says: more DRM and DRM-like schemes coming here in the near future, surely with plenty of fanboy apologia about how it's not reeaaallly a DRM, "it's a Reward."
And don't forget, everyone who thinks it is DRM is a paranoid, toxic, childish hater!
Posted December 26, 2022
I just completed the survey.

I found very ironic that the survey asked many questions about how convenient or not convenient GOG is to use, whilst the survey itself was very inconvenient in that it kept presenting huge laundry lists of choices and then presenting an "error," many times in a row, when I accidentally didn't click on every single one, since there were so many of them all bunched together.

They should have separated the questions more into smaller lists. I think a lot of people will ragequit out of the survey rather than complete it, for exactly the reasons which I just described.

As for the content of the survey: GOG asked a lot of questions about things like GOG offering a subscription service.

But I don't see any way how they can possibly accomplish that, without the subscription service failing very quickly, unless GOG first solves their core issue that GOG acquires way too few new and/or premium top-tier games.
Post edited December 26, 2022 by Ancient-Red-Dragon
Posted December 26, 2022
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ChristophWr: Nobody would use gog anymore if drm games would land here
DRM games ARE here...There are whole forum topics discussing this...
Posted December 26, 2022
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mechmouse: I feel a partnership with someone like Nexus Mods, having in built integration tools for both Galaxy and the website for Nexus mods would be a great way to give workshop functionality without locking it to GoG.
Piggy-backing off of Nexus sounds more sane than trying to duplicate GOG-specific versions of everything, but "Nexus integration = Galaxy only" is still one itch they just can't help but try and scratch, so all it really does it add fuel to the 2nd class citizen thing. I'm also sure Nexus will take into account that it could mean fewer people visiting / leaving reviews / comments / endorsements on Nexus if GOG customers start to believe 'Nexus-via-Galaxy' Mods are "GOG's" (same way we already see people creating "GOG doesn't load" threads being unable to tell GOG vs Galaxy apart even on GOG), ie, the impact on 'Galaxy vs Vortex' branding could be an issue enough for Nexus to refuse.

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surfer1260: All I want is that the modifications for games sold on gog are also available for gog customers. I don't care how this is done if it does work. The idea with nexusmods is good, at least better than just cementing the status quo by not delivering a workshop or any alternative to a workshop.
In terms of wanting Steam-exclusives mods outside of Steam, sure I agree but Galaxy exclusive mods would be just as bad. It's always been best to not lock them at all. Many modders work for nothing (unlike publishers making the DLC) and as some have said in their own words - they don't mind making one or two versions but are not going to get sucked into the "make-work" of having to repackage every version of every mod 5-10x over (one for each store that adds Workshop) purely because each store demands their own "digital cellophane" branding be wrapped around them. What happens there is most modders give up trying to support that and will prioritize only the most popular places (ie, Steam & Nexus), so demanding every store have its own version can be counterproductive in terms of mod availability.

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Syphon72: It could work since prime give you GOG game's away with there subscription. I guess they figure you can make more money with subscription.
Amazon Prime works because it sells several other things that are incentives to retain the subscription (free shipping, Netflix-style Prime Video, etc) beyond just being a one-trick-pony game download service. If EA games were all DRM-Free, you really think people wouldn't pay £3.99 for 1 month and swipe +100x games (that kept working after the sub was cancelled) if there were no other reason to subscribe? The nearest real "you're subscribing just for the games" is far less Prime and far more EA Play, MS Game Pass, etc, that are obviously all DRM'd for that reason.
Post edited December 26, 2022 by AB2012
Posted December 26, 2022
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surfer1260: What is annoying on gog?- No workshop
This is a good thing modding should not be tied to any store in any way and should be complete independent. Partnering with existing mod sites (or even modders directly) is the way to go. As they have been.

But yeah, this survey was crap and efinitely highlights the kind of things the suits in charge want GOG to be. Another has-been DRM storefront slash subscription service with "Exclusives!"
Posted December 26, 2022
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ChristophWr: Nobody would use gog anymore if drm games would land here
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rjbuffchix: DRM games ARE here...There are whole forum topics discussing this...
Every game can be played without the launcher. Im not into conspirarcy stuff so i dont participate in this kinda threads
Post edited December 26, 2022 by ChristophWr
Posted December 26, 2022
high rated
If GOG ever really accepts DRM on single player games Im out.
This is simply because GOG can't compete with Steam in any way except DRM-Free front.

About Steam workshop: What people that don't mod don't understand about Steam Workshop is that if you post your mod there, you're basically saying: This mod is not mine anymore, but it's tied to an agreement with Steam, giving them technically ownership over it.
What will happen if GOG tries to imitate this mentality?
Posted December 26, 2022
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mechmouse: I feel a partnership with someone like Nexus Mods, having in built integration tools for both Galaxy and the website for Nexus mods would be a great way to give workshop functionality without locking it to GoG.
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AB2012: Piggy-backing off of Nexus sounds more sane than trying to duplicate GOG-specific versions of everything, but "Nexus integration = Galaxy only" is still one itch they just can't help but try and scratch, so all it really does it add fuel to the 2nd class citizen thing. I'm also sure Nexus will take into account that it could mean fewer people visiting / leaving reviews / comments / endorsements on Nexus if GOG customers start to believe 'Nexus-via-Galaxy' Mods are "GOG's" (same way we already see people creating "GOG doesn't load" threads being unable to tell GOG vs Galaxy apart even on GOG), ie, the impact on 'Galaxy vs Vortex' branding could be an issue enough for Nexus to refuse.

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surfer1260: All I want is that the modifications for games sold on gog are also available for gog customers. I don't care how this is done if it does work. The idea with nexusmods is good, at least better than just cementing the status quo by not delivering a workshop or any alternative to a workshop.
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AB2012: In terms of wanting Steam-exclusives mods outside of Steam, sure I agree but Galaxy exclusive mods would be just as bad. It's always been best to not lock them at all. Many modders work for nothing (unlike publishers making the DLC) and as some have said in their own words - they don't mind making one or two versions but are not going to get sucked into the "make-work" of having to repackage every version of every mod 5-10x over (one for each store that adds Workshop) purely because each store demands their own "digital cellophane" branding be wrapped around them. What happens there is most modders give up trying to support that and will prioritize only the most popular places (ie, Steam & Nexus), so demanding every store have its own version can be counterproductive in terms of mod availability.

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Syphon72: It could work since prime give you GOG game's away with there subscription. I guess they figure you can make more money with subscription.
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AB2012: Amazon Prime works because it sells several other things that are incentives to retain the subscription (free shipping, Netflix-style Prime Video, etc) beyond just being a one-trick-pony game download service. If EA games were all DRM-Free, you really think people wouldn't pay £3.99 for 1 month and swipe +100x games (that kept working after the sub was cancelled) if there were no other reason to subscribe? The nearest real "you're subscribing just for the games" is far less Prime and far more EA Play, MS Game Pass, etc, that are obviously all DRM'd for that reason.
I was just pointing there is evidence you can sell drm free games with subscription.

Chill. Haha
Posted December 26, 2022
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mechmouse: I feel a partnership with someone like Nexus Mods, having in built integration tools for both Galaxy and the website for Nexus mods would be a great way to give workshop functionality without locking it to GoG.
That statement is a non-sequitur. GOG integrating with Nexus would not actually offer "workshop functionality," since many workshop mods are only on workshop, and not on Nexus.

Ergo, GOG integrating with Nexus would be useless...and also a huge waste of GOG's money in the event that GOG would be paying Nexus for this useless "service."

The only way to have real workshop functionality would be for GOG to make a deal with Steam whereby Steam agrees to allow GOG to access Steam's workshop files. Doing that might actually be a good idea, if GOG could negotiate good terms for that deal (i.e. if GOG doesn't have to pay Steam a lot of money in exchange for access to workshop files).

And in this idea I'm suggesting, I mean terms that include GOG being allowed to offer the workshop files in DRM-free format.
Post edited December 26, 2022 by Ancient-Red-Dragon
Posted December 26, 2022
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rjbuffchix: DRM games ARE here...There are whole forum topics discussing this...
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ChristophWr: Every game can be played without the launcher. Im not into conspirarcy stuff so i dont participate in this kinda threads
I don't know what "conspiracy" has to do with anything besides being an unhelpful pejorative as you wield it in your comment. I view DRM-free vs DRM from a "purity" perspective. Utilizing the "purity" perspective is not out of stubbornness or other such pejoratives, but rather, because of simple logic, specifically that of identity.

If any content is locked behind DRM or, for me, the functional equivalent of DRM (such as online-only requirements), a game then ceases to be DRM-free as a whole, for the same reason that if I am served soup with a hair in it, I can't keep calling the soup "hair-free" at that point. "A" is not simultaneously "Not A".

Some of us don't want hair in our soup but get told we're overreacting because the soup is mostly hair-free, we can sip around the hair, maybe in a few days when the soup gets cold the chef will remove the hair, etc. Why is it so much to ask for completely hair-free soup, as it were?

We know from the past that it is possible to provide products the right way, so there really is no excuse to accept any less.

Btw, just realized you are OP...thank you for putting pro-consumer answers as you indicated there.
Post edited December 26, 2022 by rjbuffchix
Posted December 26, 2022
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.Keys: If GOG ever really accepts DRM on single player games Im out.
This is simply because GOG can't compete with Steam in any way except DRM-Free front.

About Steam workshop: What people that don't mod don't understand about Steam Workshop is that if you post your mod there, you're basically saying: This mod is not mine anymore, but it's tied to an agreement with Steam, giving them technically ownership over it.
What will happen if GOG tries to imitate this mentality?
The point is they dont have to compete with steam. if they make their own thing the right way people will come regardless
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ChristophWr: Every game can be played without the launcher. Im not into conspirarcy stuff so i dont participate in this kinda threads
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rjbuffchix: I don't know what "conspiracy" has to do with anything besides being an unhelpful pejorative as you wield it in your comment. I view DRM-free vs DRM from a "purity" perspective. Utilizing the "purity" perspective is not out of stubbornness or other such pejoratives, but rather, because of simple logic, specifically that of identity.

If any content is locked behind DRM or, for me, the functional equivalent of DRM (such as online-only requirements), a game then ceases to be DRM-free as a whole, for the same reason that if I am served soup with a hair in it, I can't keep calling the soup "hair-free" at that point. "A" is not simultaneously "Not A".

Some of us don't want hair in our soup but get told we're overreacting because the soup is mostly hair-free, we can sip around the hair, maybe in a few days when the soup gets cold the chef will remove the hair, etc. Why is it so much to ask for completely hair-free soup, as it were?

We know from the past that it is possible to provide products the right way, so there really is no excuse to accept any less.
All games which are sold here are drm free. End of story
Edit: The cybepunk dlc stuff is dumb and im aware of the hitman debacle but every game can be installed offline and can be played that way
Post edited December 26, 2022 by ChristophWr
Posted December 26, 2022
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.Keys: If GOG ever really accepts DRM on single player games Im out.
This is simply because GOG can't compete with Steam in any way except DRM-Free front.

About Steam workshop: What people that don't mod don't understand about Steam Workshop is that if you post your mod there, you're basically saying: This mod is not mine anymore, but it's tied to an agreement with Steam, giving them technically ownership over it.
What will happen if GOG tries to imitate this mentality?
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ChristophWr: The point is they dont have to compete with steam. if they make their own thing the right way people will come regardless
Exactly.
Look, Im a modder too and I use Nexus. While I agree with the conservative mentality about moddb being the survivor of true DRM Free modding, at least Nexus allow you to post your multi platform mods and rewards modders in a way that Steam wants to, but better.
It's really concerning that many new and old modders are just accepting Steam's way of handling Workshop.
Posted December 26, 2022
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mechmouse: GOG's basics were "getting and selling old games running on modern computers" and "selling DRM Free games". The first is a niche its pretty much fully exploited and out grown. It could only survive on that by massively downscaling. The Latter is wholly dependant on being large enough and with a significant and dedicated user base that ensures Devs and pubs are willing to risk the additional cost and effort of untying themselves from the dominant service (Steam).

The arrival of Epic has, as feared, took a chunk out of GoG. Many devs/pubs are using Epic as their "alternative" to Steam. GOG needs great ideas, it needs to be able regain some of its market share and retain it, otherwise its not going to be able to survive.
I agree with much of what you say but the problem is half these "great ideas" don't actually attract that many people to the store, merely end up dividing GOG's existing community in half. Example - the Epic you mention that are "cutting into GOG" in turn are only viable due to 1. Exclusive content and 2. Massive Fortnite subsidy money. Even if GOG embraced DRM, GOG would still have neither of these things. GOG may want "subscriptions" but for what? In the real world, EA Play, etc, only work due to exclusive first party content. Why is the newest Ubisoft game on GOG 10 years old? Why did many EA titles disappear from Steam? Why aren't Microsoft titles like Age of Empires, etc, on GOG? A. Publishers who are also game stores are holding content back for Ubisoft+, EA Play and GamePass / Xbox. Where's the GOG's equivalent? There isn't one. If CDPR churned out half a dozen GOG exclusives per year, they might pull it off in several years time, but you can't build any exclusive content based subscription out of "we make one game every 5 years". So perhaps a downscaling of ambition is the saner route here than trying to be "Epic without Fortnite money" or "Ubisoft+ without any Ubisoft games".
Post edited December 26, 2022 by BrianSim
Posted December 26, 2022
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ChristophWr: The point is they dont have to compete with steam. if they make their own thing the right way people will come regardless
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.Keys: Exactly.
Look, Im a modder too and I use Nexus. While I agree with the conservative mentality about moddb being the survivor of true DRM Free modding, at least Nexus allow you to post your multi platform mods and rewards modders in a way that Steam wants to, but better.
It's really concerning that many new and old modders are just accepting Steam's way of handling Workshop.
The only thing we can do is to hope that cdpr makes the right decission. Im here for the drm free pro consumer games and if they dont provide me that im not their customer anymore. There is a tool where i can remove the steam requirement if they dont have denuvo so this would be the way to go for me
Posted December 26, 2022
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ChristophWr: The point is they dont have to compete with steam. if they make their own thing the right way people will come regardless
Problem is "build it and they will come" actually doesn't seem to be working here regarding expecting other people to keep on reinventing the wheel once per store:-
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pDO6WTHLHyrrtidQ1MAxW6u8j3BxUaGcFaJsVyWj2QY
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionGog Survey(400 posts)(400 posts)
(400 posts)