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General discussionGOG should be supported unconditionally by all of us!(101 posts)(101 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted August 14, 2019
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lolplatypus: Yeah, it's basically this.
I'd prefer my games nice and DRM-free, too, I just can't deal with this anymore.

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I can see your point, but I'm over that to be honest.

I don't want to get into the blame game for outdated builds, especially since there's a lot of behind the scenes stuff I don't know about. Contracts, ease of submitting patches, etc. I'm certainly willing to concede that at least some of the devs are to blame here, too, and to cut everyone involved some slack, because, you know, shit happens.

But it's not just about there being outdated games sold here, but also about the way Gog handles that situation. "Barely" isn't quite up to snuff in my opinion, especially not for a curated store. If we were to assign blame, it wouldn't be 100% on Gog, true. But I don't think it has to for it to be a viable point of critique.

Like, if there's a steaming dump on your kitchen floor, you can tell me how the neighbour did it and it's not your fault all you want, I'm still not coming around for tea.
1st bit: To be fair the pic is a bit misleading. Steam only treats linux users as "1st class citizens" and promotes building on the OS to make money, most likely. And to say GOG doesn't care 100% about the userbase is a bit off as well.

2nd bit: Fair enough, but as to the example: If the neighbor said it wasn't their fault one can still be friends with that neighbor(or otherwise get along with them) and do stuff with them besides "drink tea".
Posted August 14, 2019
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adamhm: Consistently selling games that are often missing years worth of fixes/features/content is not a good look for GOG though, and it'll only damage their reputation and discourage buyers in the long run.

Imagine being a new user here, buying your first game, downloading & starting to play it, then running into a major bug... and then discovering that the version of the game you bought here is missing a couple of years of updates (including a fix for the bug you encountered), and that this is far from an isolated case... would you be inclined to shop here again? Would you recommend GOG to others after such an experience?

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Well, due to the licensing of things like the kernel, Wine, etc. any changes they make have to be shared, but this is not the case for other separate projects like DXVK/D9VK - if they were inclined to do so they could very easily have insisted on keeping them closed source and somehow tied them to Steam, but no, they actually use extremely permissive licensing (zlib/libpng license, e.g. https://github.com/doitsujin/dxvk/blob/master/LICENSE ).

And of course they're trying to attract people to their service, just as GOG does with their DRM-free selling point (and their other, former core values).
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It's especially frustrating when you hold off buying a game for ages hoping for a GOG release. And then when it finally happens you discover that they're only providing the Windows version. And it keeps happening again, and again, and again. It's especially common with the bigger releases, e.g. BioShock Infinite, Dying Light, Metro 2033 Redux, Metro: Last Light Redux, Spec Ops: The Line, XCOM: Enemy Unknown, etc.

I'm still going to insist on DRM-free one way or another for everything I buy, even if it's via Steam.

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On a side note it looks like we've rustled some jimmies, judging by all of the "low rated" posts in this thread now :p Quick question for those who apparently disapprove of criticism of GOG (not that I expect anyone to answer): how does it help GOG/how are GOG to improve if they're only given positive feedback & told all is well when there are *major* issues with their service? relevant meme
1. It might not be totally up to them, as I said. What if they had to go to court and waste money battling it out if they dropped a dev that didn't do well by those who buy here? Would it be worth it to look good in a few people's eyes if it means risking the site/store to fight such in court to drop bad devs?

As for the questions: If gog sold some games for a fair price and DRM free i'd recommend them for that much, while informing those people of the shortcomings of the site/store as well so they could make informed decisions on their own and not with me leaning them one way or the other.

2nd bit: All good points. I only brought that up because it seemed like some people's words painted steam's being nice to linux users in too good a light and not in proper context.

3rd bit: This wasn't to me, but for older games GOG takes what they are given to sell and have the rights to sell. You want linux versions to come here? Then petition the devs or ip holders to release them here. :)

At least you are open to buying drm free on steam/etc, which is more reasonable than some here, at any rate.

4th bit: I also noticed that even fair and civil criticism of GOG(mostly of the curation system and linux user criticisms) gets low rated here a lot. It seems either people are sick of reading such so much(if that's so then why do they even read such?) OR(more likely) they are blindly loyal to GOG. I don't know which would be worse a possibility, tbh.
Posted August 14, 2019
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adamhm: Unfortunately the DRM-free builds at Humble tend to be neglected even more than they are here, as well as having much less consistency of packaging.
Absolutely. If DRM-free is completely non-negotiable, Gog's probably still the best bet. You'd essentially buy elsewhere for the key and having some kind of standalone build would be a bonus.

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adamhm: On a side note it looks like we've rustled some jimmies, judging by all of the "low rated" posts in this thread now :p Quick question for those who apparently disapprove of criticism of GOG (not that I expect anyone to answer): how does it help GOG/how are GOG to improve if they're only given positive feedback & told all is well when there are *major* issues with their service?
No one likes a moan, I guess?
Though Gog must love this. Look at these guys. Complaining for years, yet they're still here.

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GameRager: 1st bit: To be fair the pic is a bit misleading. Steam only treats linux users as "1st class citizens" and promotes building on the OS to make money, most likely. And to say GOG doesn't care 100% about the userbase is a bit off as well.
As far as I know it's because Microsoft is in a position to close down shop and keep Valve out of Windows, if they were really so inclined, as unlikely as it may seem. So they're investing in Linux as a plan B. It's certainly not out of the kindness of their hearts, but at the end of the day it is still happening.

And to say Gog doesn't care about its Linux userbase is really not that far off. Over the span of a few months they've parted ways with their Mac/Linux representative, basically shattered any notion that we'll ever see a Galaxy release, and still haven't commented on the Ubuntu 32bit libraries situation, which is putting techincal support and refunds in jeopardy. The situation right now is that Gog will gladly take your money, if you want to buy a Linux game here, and that's about it. So when you say that Valve is just in it for the money, I think there's a bit of bias to address.

Look, I think it's fair to say that both Gog and Valve are looking out for their bottom line and both companies employ people that are very enthusiastic about gaming. As a customer you just get to pick which business model works best for you. Just saying, if you dislike DRM in your games, that pick is a lot easier as a Windows user.

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GameRager: 2nd bit: Fair enough, but as to the example: If the neighbor said it wasn't their fault one can still be friends with that neighbor(or otherwise get along with them) and do stuff with them besides "drink tea".
Sure. And for the time being I'm still checking in every now and then to see if they started to clean up.
Posted August 14, 2019
tbh theres plenty of old games that need to come to GOG

euro truck simulator ( but scs actually said they dnt wanna come to gog :(, but they will happily send there game to EA on origin lol)
dynasty warriors 1- 6 these games are ancient but bloody amazing, i hope GOG gets in touch with KOEI its probably the only japanese game id actually buy

pro evo lution soccer upto 6, well pes6 was released on PS2 so that gives its age, and old pes titles dnt have lisencing teams or players cos konami couldnt afford it back then.

sierra 3d ultra mini golf - a game from 1997 fun to play i remember it well, it sohuld be here.

metal gear rising another great game by konami which is like 7 years old

ofc this is personal preference and there are lots of other games i like,

but atm gog seem to be accepting alot of weird japanese games and indie games, think the only indie game i have bought is swords and souls and thats fun but we need some more well known old titles, i look at the sports section on GOG and it has hardly anything ofc i get alot of sports games have lisencing issues like clubs,courses etc but alot dnt
Posted August 14, 2019
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GameRager: Ifg I may be blunt: Achievements were made to give dopamine/etc "rushes" to the new generation and get them hooked to a fad....that is about it.
No, it's not.

First, I want my dopamine, it's cool, let me have it.

Second, achievements are cool, (when done right) they are a way for the game to tell you "officially" you have done something cool. Before achievements, you just had to "manually" brag about it, and it may be true or you may be bullshitting, who knew.

For someone who came from the coin‑op and 8bit era, they are a HUGE improvement, for ANY game. Any genre. No exceptions.

(I agree, they are not required, but they are always a good thing – when done right)
Posted August 14, 2019
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GameRager: 1st bit: To be fair the pic is a bit misleading. Steam only treats linux users as "1st class citizens" and promotes building on the OS to make money, most likely.
Every business does whatever it does to make money, including GOG.

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GameRager: And to say GOG doesn't care 100% about the userbase is a bit off as well.
Clearly they *don't* care as much as they should, as evidenced by the scale of the problems and how long it's been going on (and some attempts to spin it as a positive thing - e.g. "Armello DRM-free Edition").

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GameRager: 1. It might not be totally up to them, as I said. What if they had to go to court and waste money battling it out if they dropped a dev that didn't do well by those who buy here? Would it be worth it to look good in a few people's eyes if it means risking the site/store to fight such in court to drop bad devs?
I very much doubt they'd have to go to court to stop selling any games. Is it worth cultivating a reputation for selling incomplete and buggy games by tolerating such publishers?

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GameRager: As for the questions: If gog sold some games for a fair price and DRM free i'd recommend them for that much, while informing those people of the shortcomings of the site/store as well so they could make informed decisions on their own and not with me leaning them one way or the other.
The overwhelming majority don't care about DRM (at least not until it bites them) so that will not factor into their consideration much, if at all. What *will* factor in though are things like GOG's version being years out of date, missing features & bonus content, having a game breaking bug halfway through (that was fixed in the Steam version years ago) etc.

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GameRager: 3rd bit: This wasn't to me, but for older games GOG takes what they are given to sell and have the rights to sell. You want linux versions to come here? Then petition the devs or ip holders to release them here. :)
As I mentioned previously, it's not as simple as that. Some games aren't made available for Linux here because of the lack of a Galaxy client for Linux, while others are likely due to GOG withholding platform statistics from publishers, preventing them from being able to pay third party developers their cut for the Mac/Linux versions. Only GOG can do anything about these two points.

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GameRager: 4th bit: I also noticed that even fair and civil criticism of GOG(mostly of the curation system and linux user criticisms) gets low rated here a lot. It seems either people are sick of reading such so much(if that's so then why do they even read such?) OR(more likely) they are blindly loyal to GOG. I don't know which would be worse a possibility, tbh.
Blind loyalty to any company is stupid, but it unfortunately seems to be very common in the games industry :/
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lolplatypus: Absolutely. If DRM-free is completely non-negotiable, Gog's probably still the best bet. You'd essentially buy elsewhere for the key and having some kind of standalone build would be a bonus.
I think GOG is best for older games, where there's no concern about missing updates.

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lolplatypus: Though Gog must love this. Look at these guys. Complaining for years, yet they're still here.
GOG are the only major distributor that's exclusively DRM-free, so it's not like there are a lot of options for shopping elsewhere if DRM-free is an important factor.
Post edited August 14, 2019 by adamhm
Posted August 14, 2019
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GameRager: 3rd bit: This wasn't to me, but for older games GOG takes what they are given to sell and have the rights to sell. You want linux versions to come here? Then petition the devs or ip holders to release them here. :)
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adamhm: As I mentioned previously, it's not as simple as that. Some games aren't made available for Linux here because of the lack of a Galaxy client for Linux, while others are likely due to GOG withholding platform statistics from publishers, preventing them from being able to pay third party developers their cut for the Mac/Linux versions. Only GOG can do anything about these two points.
Yeah, if that is true it is very poor.
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GameRager: 4th bit: I also noticed that even fair and civil criticism of GOG(mostly of the curation system and linux user criticisms) gets low rated here a lot. It seems either people are sick of reading such so much(if that's so then why do they even read such?) OR(more likely) they are blindly loyal to GOG. I don't know which would be worse a possibility, tbh.
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adamhm: Blind loyalty to any company is stupid, but it unfortunately seems to be very common in the games industry :/
It's a widespread human trait, actually (see Eric Hoffer, 1951, The True Believer). People seek to alleviate the banality of, and avoid responsibility for, their otherwise miserable lives. :)
Posted August 14, 2019
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moobot83: tbh theres plenty of old games that need to come to GOG
euro truck simulator ( but scs actually said they dnt wanna come to gog :(, but they will happily send there game to EA on origin lol)
For what it's worth, you can buy the "ETS 2 Gold Edition" (incl. Add-on "Going East"), DRM free on McGame.com for € 19,95
Posted August 15, 2019
Well, I must admit that many of the things that were commented on here were not to my knowledge. What struck me most is this problem involving the curatorship service and, as I understand it, its lack of methodological transparency.

I would, however, like to reiterate an answer I gave on the first page of this topic. The use of the term "unconditionally" was in a sense of "respect". I definitely agree that absolutely NOTHING should be supported unconditionally. I apologize for the way I expressed myself. The intention was another.

I am pleased with the debate that has formed here. This is always very enriching, and I'm sure it presented new nuances not just for me but for many other people.

Having made these considerations, and now understanding the point of most of you on issues that were not of my knowledge, this does not rule out the argument of this topic, which was to perceive GOG as the best digital game distribution platform available to PC users. currently. We cannot deny its importance, especially to all those who would be held hostage by DRM if GOG did not exist.

I totally agree with the fact that we must make constructive criticism and warn of errors that we may consider gross, but I also understand that we must always highlight the positives (which I believe are far more relevant than the many bad ones we can list).

I want to say that now, knowing much of the criticism that has been made here, I am joining you in order to charge GOG improvements on various issues, from the aforementioned problem involving curatorship to the lack of moderators here in the forum. to answer questions and talk to users.
Posted August 16, 2019
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moobot83: tbh theres plenty of old games that need to come to GOG
euro truck simulator ( but scs actually said they dnt wanna come to gog :(, but they will happily send there game to EA on origin lol)
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BreOl72: For what it's worth, you can buy the "ETS 2 Gold Edition" (incl. Add-on "Going East"), DRM free on McGame.com for € 19,95
not gonna give aan unknown platform my card details
Posted August 16, 2019
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Patias: … I want to say that now, knowing much of the criticism that has been made here, I am joining you in order to charge GOG improvements on various issues, from the aforementioned problem involving curatorship to the lack of moderators here in the forum. to answer questions and talk to users.
Viva La Revolución!
Posted August 16, 2019
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scientiae: Viva La Revolución!
Les Miserables - Do you hear the people sing?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47E2tfK5QAg
Posted August 16, 2019
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moobot83: not gonna give aan unknown platform my card details
They also offer payment via PP and Amazon Payments.
Posted August 17, 2019
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lolplatypus: As far as I know it's because Microsoft is in a position to close down shop and keep Valve out of Windows, if they were really so inclined, as unlikely as it may seem. So they're investing in Linux as a plan B. It's certainly not out of the kindness of their hearts, but at the end of the day it is still happening.

And to say Gog doesn't care about its Linux userbase is really not that far off. Over the span of a few months they've parted ways with their Mac/Linux representative, basically shattered any notion that we'll ever see a Galaxy release, and still haven't commented on the Ubuntu 32bit libraries situation, which is putting techincal support and refunds in jeopardy. The situation right now is that Gog will gladly take your money, if you want to buy a Linux game here, and that's about it. So when you say that Valve is just in it for the money, I think there's a bit of bias to address


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GameRager: 2nd bit: Fair enough, but as to the example: If the neighbor said it wasn't their fault one can still be friends with that neighbor(or otherwise get along with them) and do stuff with them besides "drink tea".
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lolplatypus: Sure. And for the time being I'm still checking in every now and then to see if they started to clean up.
1st bit: I was never trying to paint GOG as a saint in the linux support picture.....just showing how the pic was a b it misleading with regard to steam's linux support, is all.

2nd bit: fair enough

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Lohoris: No, it's not.

First, I want my dopamine, it's cool, let me have it.
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Second, achievements are cool, (when done right) they are a way for the game to tell you "officially" you have done something cool. Before achievements, you just had to "manually" brag about it, and it may be true or you may be bullshitting, who knew.

For someone who came from the coin‑op and 8bit era, they are a HUGE improvement, for ANY game. Any genre. No exceptions.
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(I agree, they are not required, but they are always a good thing – when done right)
1st bit: I never tried to take it away from you. I just wanted to make sure you knew why most companies styarted making/implementing them...i.e. to sell games on a certain system and get people hooked.

I also like them a bit, but I could live without them if need be(I prefer more/better singleplayer gameplay and secrets in-game).

2nd bit: I would think the better graphics/stories told by more immersive gameplay/etc were much bigger imporvements than achievements.

3rd bit: This is a bit off....they are not a good thing to those addicted to them and dopamine rushes....i.e. the ones who "MUST" play the game a ton of times to get every single achievement.

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In the end, I like achievements, but I dislike how they've turned some into addicts to them & that system and also how some have become so used to them that they feel games aren't games without them.
Post edited August 17, 2019 by GameRager
Posted August 17, 2019
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adamhm: Every business does whatever it does to make money, including GOG.

Clearly they *don't* care as much as they should, as evidenced by the scale of the problems and how long it's been going on (and some attempts to spin it as a positive thing - e.g. "Armello DRM-free Edition").
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I very much doubt they'd have to go to court to stop selling any games. Is it worth cultivating a reputation for selling incomplete and buggy games by tolerating such publishers?
============================
The overwhelming majority don't care about DRM (at least not until it bites them) so that will not factor into their consideration much, if at all. What *will* factor in though are things like GOG's version being years out of date, missing features & bonus content, having a game breaking bug halfway through (that was fixed in the Steam version years ago) etc.
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As I mentioned previously, it's not as simple as that. Some games aren't made available for Linux here because of the lack of a Galaxy client for Linux, while others are likely due to GOG withholding platform statistics from publishers, preventing them from being able to pay third party developers their cut for the Mac/Linux versions. Only GOG can do anything about these two points.
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Blind loyalty to any company is stupid, but it unfortunately seems to be very common in the games industry :/
First off, sorry for the bracketing/numbering in my reply and your post. It is to make it clear what I am replying to and to help me organize my thoughts. That said:

1st bit: True, but I was more trying to clear up how the picture posted was wrong/inaccurate rather than paint either store as totally good/bad. Yes, gog wants to make money same as steam, and yes gog doesn't care as much as they could....this doesn't invalidate what i posted(imo), however.

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2nd bit: I don't know the specifics of any contracts they might have with devs/ip holders, but they likely involve minimum selling terms(timewise). If they do, and gog broke that to kick them off, they'd likely have to fight such in court. This could cost them money they could be using to run the site or make improvements.

If they had to tolerate a few minor bad eggs(not the truly bad ones) to keep from going to court(if need be) then i'd be for that. I also like having more choice here regardless(even if some games don't work for some i'd rather have them here than not to be able to still buy them)/
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3rd bit: Some of them might still buy if the versions here were cheaper, even if they were missing some extras/etc.
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4th bit: For those points, fair enough, but for many games it's likely devs don't see the site as profitable enough period or don't want to release here for other reasons as well. To that end one must petition them to get such here(especially older classics linux versions).
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5th bit: Exactly






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Patias: Well, I must admit that many of the things that were commented on here were not to my knowledge. What struck me most is this problem involving the curatorship service and, as I understand it, its lack of methodological transparency.

I want to say that now, knowing much of the criticism that has been made here, I am joining you in order to charge GOG improvements on various issues, from the aforementioned problem involving curatorship to the lack of moderators here in the forum. to answer questions and talk to users.
*snipped to save space*, but you made some good points and made yourself more clear on your stance. Kudos for that.
Post edited August 17, 2019 by GameRager
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionGOG should be supported unconditionally by all of us!(101 posts)(101 posts)
(101 posts)