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kohlrak: And how do you bring that change? I mean, if they want to have influence over how we deal with poland, i think it's only fair that their culture is a stake in the game, too.
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barleyguy: Ultimately, the people of China need to change their country. Nobody can oppress over a billion people if they don't let it happen. But what we need to do in this situation and similar situations is keep the censorship and totalitarian mindset of China from affecting us in the rest of the world.
If there is anything good that comes from SARS-CoV-2, and the lockdowns which did nothing, it would be the fact that this point become tangible to everyone, especially in the west. Hell, the lockdown dictators were openly supporting the Floyd riots, which why so many conservatives are unfortunately not taking the damn thing seriously, because people on the whole (to be clear: regardless of political identity) tend to 180 when they realize they've been lied to, rather than doing their own investigations.

My girlfriend just woke up (while typing this post) after a 4 hour nap, the most constant sleep she has gotten in half a week, because for some unknown reason, the bug turns you into an insomniac more than other bugs. She's a night shifter, so she's normally up by now. She tested positive and it's been nothing but a nightmare since she got it, between her congenital prexisting conditions, the risk factors from her employment, etc. This is weighing heavy on me, and i'm clean.
GOG needs to understand if they choose to earn money in China, they need to do it without affecting the rest of us, or many of us may choose to no longer participate.

Over these last few days, I've gone from a fan of GOG and CD Project, to disgusted. I really want to spend $7 on the things I don't have in the Lucasarts pack, and haven't because I feel dirty spending money here. GOG needs to realize that the only market advantage they have over other services is their consistent stand on DRM and world markets, and if they lost that, there's no reason for many of us to come here anymore.
I get that, but i don't think the boycotts are the solution. Corporations seem to respond more to refund requests, account cancellations, and bad reviews, which GOG can't feel right now, due to CP2077. Instead, i think it might be wiser to bug the bully itself.
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Zrevnur: If you would actually know anything about "shareholders" you would know that a lot of normal people are shareholders.
In theory - per intermediate - pension plans, insurances, investment companies. Ordinary people don't even know what shares are being hold in their name, and how they're managed. And the companies managing them have to try and squeeze the most out of those shares, because that's what they are paid for, and what they advertise.
At most, people who try to invest money through banks or investment funds, get to choose packages: risky or conservative, green, feelgood (no weapons or food).
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Zrevnur: If you would actually know anything about "shareholders" you would know that a lot of normal people are shareholders.
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toxicTom: In theory - per intermediate - pension plans, insurances, investment companies. Ordinary people don't even know what shares are being hold in their name, and how they're managed. And the companies managing them have to try and squeeze the most out of those shares, because that's what they are paid for, and what they advertise.
At most, people who try to invest money through banks or investment funds, get to choose packages: risky or conservative, green, feelgood (no weapons or food).
Not sure what you are trying to say but in practice its easy to become a shareholder and use your shareholders rights. Just open a depot, buy some shares and go(*) to shareholder meetings. You can then make demands there and vote for stuff. The hard part is not making the cross - just like with politics - its knowing where to put it.

(*) Now also online = no need to travel due to COVID.
Post edited December 21, 2020 by Zrevnur
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Zrevnur: If you would actually know anything about "shareholders" you would know that a lot of normal people are shareholders.
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toxicTom: In theory - per intermediate - pension plans, insurances, investment companies. Ordinary people don't even know what shares are being hold in their name, and how they're managed. And the companies managing them have to try and squeeze the most out of those shares, because that's what they are paid for, and what they advertise.
At most, people who try to invest money through banks or investment funds, get to choose packages: risky or conservative, green, feelgood (no weapons or food).
This, tied with the fact that there are boards to begin with, is precisely how we deviate from normal capitalism. In a practical sense, the companies themselves (at all levels) are effectively slaves to the stock brokers, who are entrusted to manage the money of the shareholders, which... well... Intentionally don't give control. These are the real source of power, and they don't really attempt to leverage it, as far as i can tell, and it is through their apathy and the base "i only care about the money i'm entrusted to manage" that outrage mobs gain power, because the law basically hands them the reigns as long as apathy is present.
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GOG being transparent or honest won't happen. Those days are over. All the mods are allowed to say is marketing-speak. All those who wouldn't let themselves be muzzled either left or were fired.

All the past occurrences and grievances (like the DRM in NMS and Absolver) have shown that. The GOG staff will not touch controversial issues and will not communicate openly. The most they will do is issue some empty, political statement. But the preferred mode of 'communication' by GOG is silence.
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"GOG, please be more transparent about the China deal"
the point of censorship is exactly the opposite of being transparent, so good luck getting any info from gog now
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDrfE9I8_hs
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Strijkbout: [...]
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kohlrak: [...]
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Ancient-Red-Dragon: [...]
no, my point is only bout "gamers", as you all assume that there are no "gamers", while there may be some as well

If I tried to put myself in their shoes, I would have gently put my arm aorund gOg's shoulder and said: "listen, mate, I know this is not the right thing to do, but if you go through with this, there is a chance that Winnie may find out and he may block you here. If they do, then I lose access to my collection, I can not buy any gamers from you anymore, and I can no longer get updates, and I just bought CP2077, for Frigg's sake, it would take at least two years before it is patched up to a playable state. Can't you, you know, not do this? Please?"

so yes, there may have been some response from people who actually play games in China as well, who would not like to see this happening. Things are most likely mot as black and white as you want them to be, but there are many shades of grey as well...
Post edited December 21, 2020 by amok
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RafaelRamus: I would tell the truth:

"It has come to our attention that there is some ongoing controversy regarding the game Devotion and the Chinese market. We are analyzing the situation and we have decided to not release the game right now because of this and we have no new release date in sight."
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Zrevnur: Far as I know this is not the (full?) truth though. I have seen evicence on GOG reddit (and I think in forum here too) that GOG made a placating Weibo post promising to "not hurt feelings" or sth like that. Unfortunately I dont have a link. It was also claimed that soon after Chinese made the whole thing vanish from Weibo or sth like that. It can probably be still found somewhere on https://old.reddit.com/r/gog/
It would at least be better than what we got though.

.
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Ancient-Red-Dragon: [...]
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amok: no, my point is only bout "gamers", as you all assume that there are no "gamers", while there may be some as well

If I tried to put myself in their shoes, I would have gently put my arm aorund gOg's shoulder and said: "listen, mate, I know this is not the right thing to do, but if you go through with this, there is a chance that Winnie may find out and he may block you here. If they do, then I lose access to my collection, I can not buy any gamers from you anymore, and I can no longer get updates, and I just bought CP2077, for Frigg's sake, it would take at least two years before it is patched up to a playable state. Can't you, you know, not do this? Please?"

so yes, there may have been some response from people who actually play games in China as well, who would not like to see this happening. Things are most likely mot as black and white as you want them to be, but there are many shades of grey as well...
Then

tell

us

so!

What good is for them to gain some mainland Chinese and lose at least the same amount outside there?

Also, better pay attention to what Xi Jing Poh has been talking regarding closing the Chinese economy again...
Post edited December 21, 2020 by RafaelRamus
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RafaelRamus: [...]
Then

tell

us

so!
[...]
that;s what they did, you did not belive them
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amok: that;s what they did, you did not belive them
No they didn't. The word "Chinese" is nowhere to be found in their statement. Blaming it on "gamers"... am I a joke to them?

They said it was because of "gamers". Well, we are gamers, I am a gamer. Why would they give preference to the sayings of people that do not intend to buy the game in detriment to people that do intend to buy the game?

What kind of a criteria is this? You may buy this crap from them if you want, I won't.
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RafaelRamus: [...]
They said it was because of "gamers". Well, we are gamers, I am a gamer. Why would they give preference to the sayings of people that do not intend to buy the game in detriment to people that do intend to buy the game?
[...]
how do you know they are not buying games? who are these "people" anyway?
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RafaelRamus: [...]
They said it was because of "gamers". Well, we are gamers, I am a gamer. Why would they give preference to the sayings of people that do not intend to buy the game in detriment to people that do intend to buy the game?
[...]
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amok: how do you know they are not buying games? who are these "people" anyway?
I did not say "games". I said "the game", as in "the Devotion game".

If GOG wants to protect their Chinese gamers, then say so. You or me explaining in their name is worth nothing. They did it, they have to communicate better why.

Telling us it is pulling the game from the platform because "gamers" asked them to without further explaining and without even mentioning China is absurd and pretty cowardly of them.
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amok: how do you know they are not buying games? who are these "people" anyway?
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RafaelRamus: I did not say "games". I said "the game", as in "the Devotion game".

If GOG wants to protect their Chinese gamers, then say so. You or me explaining in their name is worth nothing. They did it, they have to communicate better why.

Telling us it is pulling the game from the platform because "gamers" asked them to without further explaining and without even mentioning China is absurd and pretty cowardly of them.
so you would have been happy if they said "chinese gamers" instead of "gamers"
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RafaelRamus: I did not say "games". I said "the game", as in "the Devotion game".

If GOG wants to protect their Chinese gamers, then say so. You or me explaining in their name is worth nothing. They did it, they have to communicate better why.

Telling us it is pulling the game from the platform because "gamers" asked them to without further explaining and without even mentioning China is absurd and pretty cowardly of them.
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amok: so you would have been happy if they said "chinese gamers" instead of "gamers"
It would be something already.

I told you exactly what I think it would be the least they should have said. The LEAST. The folks at GOG PR should be fired, honestly (I mean, everything is third party nowadays so they should really consider changing partners if that's the case).

The following would be a start:

"It has come to our attention that there is some ongoing controversy regarding the game Devotion and the Chinese market. We are analyzing the situation and we have decided to not release the game right now because of this and we have no new release date in sight."

I bet you we wouldn't be having this conversation had they released the above instead of that cowardly post they made.