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Zimerius: again, are you sure you want to respond in such a manner
Quite. Can you get it and play it "for free"? Sure, but that was never the issue with any game, now was it?

Is it legally yours? No, unless you can show me a receipt or proof of purchase.

If you want to wear an eye patch, that's your choice, but don't expect anyone here to glorify or encourage it.
Post edited July 04, 2021 by WinterSnowfall
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amok: it is free in the same way as all the games on Pirates Bay are free as well

you might want to argue it is abndonware, but that's not a legal term in any way, and is just piracy where the license holders don't care.

so, no - Freelancer is not free, but you can use your links to get a cracked version, for whatever that's worth.
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Zimerius: sure, everything to grab a point, for not all to long ago it was even not against the law to download hacked stuff, just as long as you did not share this yourself you where not doing anything wrong. Now of course this has changed but sites such as abandonware are in equally gray area's atm and what a site such as pirate bay offers is certainly not in a grey area since that is, well abandoned from the right side, the good side of the law
no, it has never been legal to pirate software, or if it has ever been legal in Netherlands -then please provide some evidence, i would really like to see it.

in some contries it has been, and still is, legal to use cracked versions of software if you have already bought it before (i.e. you already own it), though, and i think you are confused here.
Post edited July 03, 2021 by amok
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toupz111: But whats happen with old openworld rpgs I mean the magic candle series, nobody disagrees it should be on gog i think... Or freelancer....Ev nova...
Freelancer = Microsoft who don't have a single game here partly due to their ongoing love of DRM and partly because they suffer from Bethesda Syndrome (Age of Empires is like Skyrim - if you can re-release the same game over & over every 3 years, you won't see the classic versions here because the new ones are more profitable, and you won't see the new Definitive Special HD ones here because they have DRM...) At the end of the day, if GOG asks but the rights holders say "no" (or can't be found / contacted), there's nothing GOG can do.

So the only way you'll get many old games (legally) is to buy the discs. I did that for Freelancer, Age of Empires 1-2, Age of Mythology, Rise of Nations, The Neverhood, NOLF 1-2, Diablo 2, Dune, Elite Plus, Outrun 2006, etc, and a whole lot more, and whilst the original CD-ROM's often had CD checks, quite a few of the "Game Of The Year" or "Gold" DVD-ROM re-releases actually came with the DRM officially removed. Patches like jflp.dll for Freelancer or D2MultiRes for Diablo 2, or uPatch for Age of Empires as described on PCGamingWiki will usually add Widescreen support (even Ultrawide) anyway.
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AB2012: [...] (Age of Empires is like Skyrim - if you can re-release the same game over & over every 3 years, you won't see the classic versions here because the new ones are more profitable, and you won't see the new Definitive Special HD ones here because they have DRM...)
[...]
Skyrim was released in 2011, then it had 3 major DLC's, before the definitive edition in 2016. So there was 5 years between the original release and the single re-release of the game.

The reason you will probably not see Skyrim here, is the inclusion of Creation Club, which will not go down well here (even though you never have to use it).

Off course you can count Skyrim VR (released 2018 for PC), but arguably that's a completly different kettle of fish
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amok: Skyrim was released in 2011, then it had 3 major DLC's, before the definitive edition in 2016. So there was 5 years between the original release and the single re-release of the game.
Skyrim (2011) -> Skyrim Legendary (2013) -> Skyrim Special (2016) -> Skyrim VR (2018). 4x releases over 7 years was an average of once every 1.75 years as measured in 2018, (and 4x releases over 10 years as measured today is still an average of 2.5 years).
Post edited July 03, 2021 by AB2012
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amok: Skyrim was released in 2011, then it had 3 major DLC's, before the definitive edition in 2016. So there was 5 years between the original release and the single re-release of the game.
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AB2012: Skyrim (2011) -> Skyrim Legendary (2013) -> Skyrim Special (2016) -> Skyrim VR (2018). 4x releases over 7 years was an average of once every 1.75 years as measured in 2018, (and 4x releases over 10 years as measured today is still an average of 2.5 years).
legendary was only a consolidation where you could buy the game with all the DLC's in one package. If you want to count it as a re-release? I am not sure i would. Granted if you got it on physical, it was patched to the latest version - does that count?

and as said - Skyrim VR is a different kettle of fish.
Post edited July 03, 2021 by amok
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amok: legendary was only a consolidation where you could buy the game with all the DLC's in one package. If you want to count it as a re-release? I am not sure i would
Even if it were as you describe (it isn't), it's no different to GOTY / Gold versions being counted as re-releases which is why it's counted as a separate "Edition" on Wikipedia & PCGamingWiki. Legendary wasn't just "we took the base game and added DLC and that's it" though as there were far deeper gameplay mechanics changed (it was called Legendary precisely due to the introduction of Legendary level Skills and the increase in level cap over 81 via resetting skills from 100 to 15 as well as adding Legendary difficulty setting) that involved a lot more change to the base game's levelling system than the impact Shivering Isles had to Base Oblivion or Tribunal had to Morrowind (both of whose Game Of The Year Editions were also counted as official re-releases).
Post edited July 03, 2021 by AB2012
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AB2012: So the only way you'll get many old games (legally) is to buy the discs. I did that for Freelancer, Age of Empires 1-2, Age of Mythology, Rise of Nations, The Neverhood, NOLF 1-2, Diablo 2, Dune, Elite Plus, Outrun 2006, etc, and a whole lot more, and whilst the original CD-ROM's often had CD checks, quite a few of the "Game Of The Year" or "Gold" DVD-ROM re-releases actually came with the DRM officially removed. Patches like jflp.dll for Freelancer or D2MultiRes for Diablo 2, or uPatch for Age of Empires as described on PCGamingWiki will usually add Widescreen support (even Ultrawide) anyway.
Okay - now I'm jealous. Outrun 2006 is a nightmare to get at a reasonable price. I seriously considered spending £30 on a copy in a budget re-release package from ebay.

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Zimerius: snip
Zimerius - you should probably remove those links as it looks like one of them provides the ability to download Freelancer, which is not a freeware/public domain game. You've made your position on abandonware very clear, but remember that even if the law isn't actively enforced, it's still illegal and providing links looks like it breaches 11(g) of the GoG user agreement.
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amok: legendary was only a consolidation where you could buy the game with all the DLC's in one package. If you want to count it as a re-release? I am not sure i would
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AB2012: Even if it were as you describe (it isn't), it's no different to GOTY / Gold versions being counted as re-releases which is why it's counted as a separate "Edition" on Wikipedia & PCGamingWiki. Legendary wasn't just "we took the base game and added DLC and that's it" though as there were far deeper gameplay mechanics changed (it was called Legendary precisely due to the introduction of Legendary level Skills and the increase in level cap over 81 via resetting skills from 100 to 15 as well as adding Legendary difficulty setting) that involved a lot more change to the base game's levelling system than the impact Shivering Isles had to Base Oblivion or Tribunal had to Morrowind (both of whose Game Of The Year Editions were also counted as official re-releases).
snd not to forget that when Legendary was released, you could still buy the original base game and all the DLC's seperatly (as is norm with all the complete / GOTY / what-ever versions). It was not until the Special ediition they where removed. Arguably for parity and only having to maintain and support one version of the game. make from this what you want though....
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pds41: Okay - now I'm jealous. Outrun 2006 is a nightmare to get at a reasonable price. I seriously considered spending £30 on a copy in a budget re-release package from ebay.
Yeah that is a problem these days. I bought most of them years ago before the recent resurgence in interest in old games + increase in demand from "collectors" + reduced supply of discs ended up increasing the prices quite a bit (especially for boxed originals). On the one hand you can still get games like Diablo 2 very cheap (barely £2). On the other hand, games like Outrun 2006 or Frontier Elite 2 with the large fold-out galaxy map regularly spike in price to £20-£30 each.
Post edited July 04, 2021 by AB2012
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Sachys: It is NOT Thursday today!!!
Pish posh. Hasn't anyone told you yet that every day is Thursday?
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amok: no, it has never been legal to pirate software, or if it has ever been legal in Netherlands -then please provide some evidence, i would really like to see it.

in some contries it has been, and still is, legal to use cracked versions of software if you have already bought it before (i.e. you already own it), though, and i think you are confused here.
For the US, it's illegal to download any software you weren't authorized to download, even if you own another copy. However, you're allowed to rip your own copy and play that copy on whatever platform you like, which filters out people who don't have the skills and resources to rip their games. This also includes abandonware.

I'd suspect that misinformation came about from gaming communities agreeing it's morally acceptable to download the ISO and ROM if you already own a copy since you already gave the gamedevs money to avoid the intermediate step. I'd also imagine this case hasn't been seen in courts of other countries because game giants still send out C&D letters with threats of legal action.
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amok: no, it has never been legal to pirate software, or if it has ever been legal in Netherlands -then please provide some evidence, i would really like to see it.

in some contries it has been, and still is, legal to use cracked versions of software if you have already bought it before (i.e. you already own it), though, and i think you are confused here.
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MeowCanuck: For the US, it's illegal to download any software you weren't authorized to download[...]
For the US it is indeed that case. Copyright laws are based on the contry you are in, and different countires have different copyright laws. A contry's laws supersede the companies EULA / license agreement / wishes - no matter how much they do not want this to be the case.
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MeowCanuck: [...]
I'd suspect that misinformation came about from gaming communities agreeing it's morally acceptable to download the ISO and ROM if you already own a copy since you already gave the gamedevs money to avoid the intermediate step. I'd also imagine this case hasn't been seen in courts of other countries because game giants still send out C&D letters with threats of legal action.
yeah, it is one of those where morals and laws may be two very different things. You may also add the moral obligation(?) of software preservation as cultural artifacts vs. copyright here
Post edited July 03, 2021 by amok
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AB2012: So the only way you'll get many old games (legally) is to buy the discs. I did that for Freelancer, Age of Empires 1-2, Age of Mythology, Rise of Nations, The Neverhood, NOLF 1-2, Diablo 2, Dune, Elite Plus, Outrun 2006, etc, and a whole lot more, and whilst the original CD-ROM's often had CD checks, quite a few of the "Game Of The Year" or "Gold" DVD-ROM re-releases actually came with the DRM officially removed. Patches like jflp.dll for Freelancer or D2MultiRes for Diablo 2, or uPatch for Age of Empires as described on PCGamingWiki will usually add Widescreen support (even Ultrawide) anyway.
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pds41: Okay - now I'm jealous. Outrun 2006 is a nightmare to get at a reasonable price. I seriously considered spending £30 on a copy in a budget re-release package from ebay.

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Zimerius: snip
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pds41: Zimerius - you should probably remove those links as it looks like one of them provides the ability to download Freelancer, which is not a freeware/public domain game. You've made your position on abandonware very clear, but remember that even if the law isn't actively enforced, it's still illegal and providing links looks like it breaches 11(g) of the GoG user agreement.
oh you are probably right. it was not without reason that i named one bad and the other good.
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pds41: Okay - now I'm jealous. Outrun 2006 is a nightmare to get at a reasonable price. I seriously considered spending £30 on a copy in a budget re-release package from ebay.
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AB2012: On the other hand, games like Outrun 2006 or Frontier Elite 2 with the large fold-out galaxy map regularly spike in price to £20-£30 each.
It also depends on availability and if you are willing to buy used/second hand. Good luck trying to find a box of Drakan for example. I've been lucky and found one sealed box in some e-shop in Netherlands. What did I pay in total? 50€ for the game and 10€ for transport.

And for example, check the prices of Battle for Middle Earth 1 and 2 on Amazon. By far the highest price I've seen. Makes me very grateful for getting the boxes back when they released.

That being said, I'd consider 20-£30 an acceptable price for sealed box of an old boxed game. But not for used/incomplete ones like "disc only" or "no manual/box" etc
Post edited July 03, 2021 by idbeholdME