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General discussionGog multiplayer games are't DRM free(74 posts)(74 posts)
(74 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted September 29, 2015
How is having to create an account DRM? It has nothing to do with managing digital rights. If you want to play online, for better or worse, unless you want to play LAN, which less and less games support, you'll always need to go through some kind of server. GOG doesn't develop or publish the games, they just sell them. The fact you can install copies of the same game on several of your machines and play their single or multiplayer camapign without install limitations or any need to "phone home" makes them DRM-free on my book. Sure, you have to create an external online account for *some* games sold on GOG if you want to play online multiplayer, but you can still log in in every single one of your installed copies of the game and play them without getting e-mails asking for confirmation on whether that's really you trying to access the game from a different computer or not.

Well, you can't log in on two computers at once, yes, but that just seems like an obvious choice to make, since, as far I know, human beings aren't capable of duplicating themselves and if you were accessing the same account at once it probably meant you were either being hacked or that you were omnipresent.

To me, GOG is pretty much 100% DRM-free and, like JMich worded so much better than myself, at the end of the day what matters is the court's definition of DRM, not your own, so I wouldn't bother with suing GOG, because you would have lost that case right from the get go, as your definition of what is DRM is legally flawed.
Posted September 29, 2015
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nightcraw1er.488: Sorry, how do you presume they would provide Multiplayer games which do not have LAN play built in? Whilst I personally don't have anything to do with online multiplayer, a lot of people do and this requires internet servers. Not sure how you intend to get round that.
In former times you could use online services such as battle.net by creating an account but NOT binding your game to it. This means you were able to sell your game to someone else and he could use the very same copy with his account. The account was only used to identify yourself within the network, not as a DRM mechanism. Those were strange times indeed...
Posted September 29, 2015
For me DRM is having to connect to play your games,even if it is single player like Sims 3 and Sim City 2013. I don't think MMOs count as DRM since they're multiplayer only,as the name says Massive Multiplayer Online.
The games GOG sells that have MP also doesn't count since the key are for authentication.
But that's just my definitions.
Posted September 30, 2015
low rated
I think we've established that there's increasingly no such thing as DRM free multiplayer games now days, unless they're LAN capable, which is a feature increasingly not supported by game makers now days. It's always seemed fairly obvious to me as to why games don't support LAN play any more. It's DRM... Removing LAN play is an easy way of stopping people from being able to play multiplayer without buying the game.
Back in the day games didn't check your game key when you logged onto the internet multiplayer features. The reason they do that is because it's DRM.

I used to play games on the Gamespy network in the late 90's - early 2000's and games didn't log onto a server provided by the game maker back then. You just logged onto Gamespy or some other network, and the games connected via there without checking for a CD key.
That was DRM free...!
Games don't do DRM free for multiplayer now days, and that's the problem with GOG selling multiplayer games claiming that they're DRM free. Because technically it's not true.
Weather or not it's fair for them to use DRM is entirely another issue. I support Steam even though I don't really like the fact that it's a DRM platform. But at least Valvle aren't lying to their customers about games being DRM free, when in fact they are using DRM, and they're often not even that different from the Steam versions where DRM is concerned:

If I bought a multiplayer game on Steam, often times it would be very similar the GOG version, as both check my key when I log on, and I can launch the game without steam by running its executable, or using a launch command to specify to launch the game without steam.

Therefore GOG versions have only superficial "DRM free" differences from the Steam version, as there are often easy workarounds for Steam as DRM, and no workarounds for the CD-Key check DRM on the multiplayer server.

I like the idea of DRM free games, and the fact that all of the single player games on GOG are DRM free.
But GOG is a business. You can't lie to your customers when you're a business, it's against the rules. There are organisations that regulate fraud which investigate and penalise companies when they break the law like this.

Not long ago, Steam was penalised for operating in violation of Australian law, by not offering refunds on game sales.
I think this is the kind of situation GOG is in at the moment. It's only a matter of time before someone reports this to a regulator and the issue is settled in one way or another.

I really don't see a DRM future as being possible for GOG. One way or another they're going to have to start selling DRM games if they want to keep releasing new games with multiplayer functionality. Otherwise they'll have to stick with the real good old games, (pre-online validation) which didn't have multiplayer DRM.
Posted September 30, 2015
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doomicle: Many Gog multiplayer games use DRM:
Online authentication, as you have to log into the server with your key in order to play.

You can't sell something claiming it's DRM free when it's not... That's fraud... Someone could sue you guys for false advertising and selling products not meeting the description.
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nightcraw1er.488: Sorry, how do you presume they would provide Multiplayer games which do not have LAN play built in? Whilst I personally don't have anything to do with online multiplayer, a lot of people do and this requires internet servers. Not sure how you intend to get round that. Its not in real terms DRM, you are logging into a multiplayer server for which you need an account, much like you need an account with GOG to buy games. You can still download the installers and play offline single player games, or even LAN if the item allows it, without any online component, client, or malicious software locking the product to hardware etc.
I would argue that Age of Wonders III has DRM because you can't play LAN games without an online connection/account. So you can't use that to have a DRM Free online experience via Hamachi or some such and can't have DRM free local muliplayer either.
Post edited September 30, 2015 by Franpa
Posted September 30, 2015
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Franpa: I would argue that Age of Wonders III has DRM because you can't play LAN games without an online connection/account. So you can't use that to have a DRM Free online experience via Hamachi or some such and can't have DRM free local muliplayer either.
I don't see anything wrong with hotseat gaming. Age of Wonders has that.
Posted September 30, 2015
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Franpa: I would argue that Age of Wonders III has DRM because you can't play LAN games without an online connection/account. So you can't use that to have a DRM Free online experience via Hamachi or some such and can't have DRM free local muliplayer either.
Hmm, I would agree that *that* isn't DRM-free if I've understood you correctly. So the game supports LAN/direct connection but requires a login even then? I would say that is definitely DRM.
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micktiegs_8: I don't see anything wrong with hotseat gaming. Age of Wonders has that.
It doesn't matter that it might have hotseat as well, there's no actual reason you'd need to log in to an account to play LAN which would make that check DRM. Of course, I don't own the game so I've no direct experience and could be misunderstanding something.
Post edited September 30, 2015 by SirPrimalform
Posted September 30, 2015
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Franpa: I would argue that Age of Wonders III has DRM because you can't play LAN games without an online connection/account. So you can't use that to have a DRM Free online experience via Hamachi or some such and can't have DRM free local muliplayer either.
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SirPrimalform: Hmm, I would agree that *that* isn't DRM-free if I've understood you correctly. So the game supports LAN/direct connection but requires a login even then? I would say that is definitely DRM.
no, there is no 'lan/direct' button. Only 'online multiplayer'. Look at Spellforce for example; that has LAN specifically selectable in the game.
Posted September 30, 2015
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SirPrimalform: Hmm, I would agree that *that* isn't DRM-free if I've understood you correctly. So the game supports LAN/direct connection but requires a login even then? I would say that is definitely DRM.
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micktiegs_8: no, there is no 'lan/direct' button. Only 'online multiplayer'. Look at Spellforce for example; that has LAN specifically selectable in the game.
What on earth is Franpa talking about then?
Posted September 30, 2015
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SirPrimalform: What on earth is Franpa talking about then?
Does he think that MMOs have DRM? Because they're meant to be always online.
Posted September 30, 2015
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doomicle: I think we've established that there's increasingly no such thing as DRM free multiplayer games now days, unless they're LAN capable, which is a feature increasingly not supported by game makers now days. It's always seemed fairly obvious to me as to why games don't support LAN play any more. It's DRM... Removing LAN play is an easy way of stopping people from being able to play multiplayer without buying the game.
Back in the day games didn't check your game key when you logged onto the internet multiplayer features. The reason they do that is because it's DRM.

I used to play games on the Gamespy network in the late 90's - early 2000's and games didn't log onto a server provided by the game maker back then. You just logged onto Gamespy or some other network, and the games connected via there without checking for a CD key.
That was DRM free...!
Games don't do DRM free for multiplayer now days, and that's the problem with GOG selling multiplayer games claiming that they're DRM free. Because technically it's not true.
Weather or not it's fair for them to use DRM is entirely another issue. I support Steam even though I don't really like the fact that it's a DRM platform. But at least Valvle aren't lying to their customers about games being DRM free, when in fact they are using DRM, and they're often not even that different from the Steam versions where DRM is concerned:

If I bought a multiplayer game on Steam, often times it would be very similar the GOG version, as both check my key when I log on, and I can launch the game without steam by running its executable, or using a launch command to specify to launch the game without steam.

Therefore GOG versions have only superficial "DRM free" differences from the Steam version, as there are often easy workarounds for Steam as DRM, and no workarounds for the CD-Key check DRM on the multiplayer server.

I like the idea of DRM free games, and the fact that all of the single player games on GOG are DRM free.
But GOG is a business. You can't lie to your customers when you're a business, it's against the rules. There are organisations that regulate fraud which investigate and penalise companies when they break the law like this.

Not long ago, Steam was penalised for operating in violation of Australian law, by not offering refunds on game sales.
I think this is the kind of situation GOG is in at the moment. It's only a matter of time before someone reports this to a regulator and the issue is settled in one way or another.

I really don't see a DRM future as being possible for GOG. One way or another they're going to have to start selling DRM games if they want to keep releasing new games with multiplayer functionality. Otherwise they'll have to stick with the real good old games, (pre-online validation) which didn't have multiplayer DRM.
Dude you are seriously making me sick! Go on and play your steam or whatever. Ignorant gamers like you is the cause of problems because you have no sense of principles. Spreading nonsense on purpose I might add!
Posted September 30, 2015
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SirPrimalform: It doesn't matter that it might have hotseat as well, there's no actual reason you'd need to log in to an account to play LAN which would make that check DRM. Of course, I don't own the game so I've no direct experience and could be misunderstanding something.
Local Area.Networks shouldn't require a login, I mean if you plug a.serial cable in one machine and then into the other are you telling me that they still need to connect to the internet? That's hardly LAN then is it.

Simply put there are.three elements.
1 - server which requires login for you to use it.
2 - a game wih a single player campaign which can be played totally offline with no further requirement
3 - an online authentication system which checks that the product you are using has been legally purchased.

Now any form of online multiplayer has to have a server to communicate via. It makes perfect sense that this server needs some credentials from you to login, otherwise it would be swamped by spam and bots within minutes.
Now the first two is what GOG provides. You can play their games on your own on any machine without any checks. They also provide a mechanism where you can link up with other gamers via a server which needs a login. It does not do the third, hence it is as DRM free as possible. End of story.

Sorry, this was to previous poster not this one, am on the windows phone, its dreadfull so apologies.for typos too.
Posted September 30, 2015
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SirPrimalform: It doesn't matter that it might have hotseat as well, there's no actual reason you'd need to log in to an account to play LAN which would make that check DRM. Of course, I don't own the game so I've no direct experience and could be misunderstanding something.
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nightcraw1er.488: Local Area.Networks shouldn't require a login, I mean if you plug a.serial cable in one machine and then into the other are you telling me that they still need to connect to the internet? That's hardly LAN then is it.

Simply put there are.three elements.
1 - server which requires login for you to use it.
2 - a game wih a single player campaign which can be played totally offline with no further requirement
3 - an online authentication system which checks that the product you are using has been legally purchased.

Now any form of online multiplayer has to have a server to communicate via. It makes perfect sense that this server needs some credentials from you to login, otherwise it would be swamped by spam and bots within minutes.
Now the first two is what GOG provides. You can play their games on your own on any machine without any checks. They also provide a mechanism where you can link up with other gamers via a server which needs a login. It does not do the third, hence it is as DRM free as possible. End of story.

Sorry, this was to previous poster not this one, am on the windows phone, its dreadfull so apologies.for typos too.
If you looked further on you'll see a clarification. That's if you were supposedly talking to me, even though I'm not the confused one in all this. I own the product; there is no LAN option, only online multiplayer. franpa is the one you should be talking to.
Posted September 30, 2015
Here's one requirement for a game to be DRM free: It must be fully playable even if the official servers have been discontinued or are unavailable.

This could be solved with local multiplayer, but the ideal solution is to allow players to host their own servers.

Making the server able to run on a headless Linux (or *BSD) server would be really nice, as that would open the door to players renting cheap VPS's and using them as servers.
Posted September 30, 2015
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nightcraw1er.488: Local Area.Networks shouldn't require a login, I mean if you plug a.serial cable in one machine and then into the other are you telling me that they still need to connect to the internet? That's hardly LAN then is it.

Simply put there are.three elements.
1 - server which requires login for you to use it.
2 - a game wih a single player campaign which can be played totally offline with no further requirement
3 - an online authentication system which checks that the product you are using has been legally purchased.

Now any form of online multiplayer has to have a server to communicate via. It makes perfect sense that this server needs some credentials from you to login, otherwise it would be swamped by spam and bots within minutes.
Now the first two is what GOG provides. You can play their games on your own on any machine without any checks. They also provide a mechanism where you can link up with other gamers via a server which needs a login. It does not do the third, hence it is as DRM free as possible. End of story.

Sorry, this was to previous poster not this one, am on the windows phone, its dreadfull so apologies.for typos too.
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micktiegs_8: If you looked further on you'll see a clarification. That's if you were supposedly talking to me, even though I'm not the confused one in all this. I own the product; there is no LAN option, only online multiplayer. franpa is the one you should be talking to.
To franpa that was indeed, sorry as mentioned I am on phone at the moment.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionGog multiplayer games are't DRM free(74 posts)(74 posts)
(74 posts)