Good morning. Sounds like a nice dream! :-)

Since no other brigwagon seems to be happening anyway.
unbrig
Brig ZFR

I co-modded the infamous Parity Cop game with Vitek, so yeah I know your town game.

Because a Miller and a deputy means there is a cop, unless this is a bastard game, which I don't believe it to be.

I think SPF has held himself very well today and has come across as town to me. I'm willing to accept I might be wrong in this read but right now I see no reason to disbelieve him. If his claim is true then I imagine cristi's isn't.

Funny, why did you completely ignore it then? Patented bler dodge again?

If cristi flips town then I would say Lift starts looking a little worse, flub and ZFR too. You probably look better and SPF's claim might need to come into doubt (assuming he survived the night).
That seems a pretty good net gain to me.


That's not pretty formidable, that's the pretty standard scum team combo. Why does that justify having a second cop?
A deputy just doesn't really make sense in this set up, and is the kind of claim I would pull out if I were scum.

Obviously it was me.

Just found an error in this reasoning. For the strongman to make sense, there would have to be another PR against which the strongman is necessary. For example a doctor. Which would make the strong town PR-set, which you want to balance with your proposed scum team, even more powerful. So that balancing would backfire. I think it's more sensible to assume that 'backup cop' is a false claim then to start concocting hypothetical super-powerful scum-teams.

There. FTFY. ;-)

But kidding aside, if I'm right and cristi flips scum, you'll move out of that comfy 'probably town' area for me. My leading theory is still HSL+cristi+ZFR ... but the latter only because he wasn't lynched at the end of D1. Perhaps it's HSL+crsti+bler after all? Even though your scum-hunting seems genuine, I really don't agree with your conclusions. Somehow we seem to think in opposite ways.

Or is that Felix Gaeta, Town Mutineer?
I find your claim interesting at this time. Sure, you state you hadn't noticed the deadline extension, and I believe you in that - but it was still far earlier and under way less pressure than D1?
Also, Gaeta being after Saul; Not really. There are a number of others who could stand in, and do, before Gaeta

I very much agree here. (Let me br frank; Lift is very suspecious to me, and I have disagreed - though not publicly - with much of what he has said, and I'm not entirely sure I buy his apology towards me early D2, but that's not necessarily important here).
I mean, we have a Miller which reduces some of the power a Sane Cop brings to the table, but is useless if there is a modified Cop. Thus, a backup Cop brings an excorberant amount of power to town, meaning that either a Roleblocker on town side CAN subjegate some of that (Given that he can only shoot in the dark), multiple nightkills, or an extremely powerful mafia faction is needed here. Otherwise the balance is way off.
I find the claim slightly suspecious, but it could be true in the end. Which brings me to another point. More on that later.

First off; welcome back, Trent! It's good to have you here, that means my reads on you are not nullified :)
Anyhow; this. All of this! Cristi exclaims she needs time for her claim, and while not necessarily in the danger zone, her remarks bely her feeling a lot of stress and pressure. This doesn't make her buckle. She claimed now, with what she thought was 24-hours to go, and 3 votes from lynching. Why?
Couple this with the fact that her role is BACKUP Cop. Not Cop, not Insane Cop, but BACKUP. That means she has no power as she slightly implied during EoD1, but more importantly; it makes her vanilla as of right now. Sure, vanilla with upside in case of the (potentially unexisting) Cop dies. Until then, she is vanilla. If she dies before said Cop, she remains vanilla. She bemoaned us for not lynching a vanilla, so I really wonder why she thought she was more worthy of staying here than ZFR?
No matter which way I turn this, I only come up with Cristi having claimed vanilla, and one-upping ZFR's vanilla claim, and nothing more. Her death doesn't remove power from the town anymore than ZFR's death would, but it might pack more information - given what we would do with the fact that a backup Cop existed, should she flip Town Deputy as she claims.

In relation to bler's theorycrafting, I could see a game where there could be a Cop, a Backup Cop and a Roleblocker all on the Town-side of things; the Roleblocker could exist as a strange form of protection role, since he does shoot rather blindly, hoping to block an NK.
I'm not really sure it's like that here though, it seems like a very weird setup idea to me (Maybe I should run it...).

I know this one! If you flip town, they're likely to all look my direction, since most people here think my discourse with Bookwyrm can only be T/W. You flipping town would actually make this game far more interesting...

Heh, I just realised that brigging someone in this situation (Where the brig lowers votes needed for a lunch) doesn't REALLY take the vote away from the brigged player - it empowers it, in essence, by having them vote for everyone. Brigged player doesn't vote, but everyone requires one less vote to lynch, which would functionally be the same as the brigged player voting once for everyone.

In all, I'm viewing Cristi more scum than adalia, and since these are the main wagons discussed, I'm stating blankly that I'm fine with either; I'd be fine with lynching anyone, but apprehensive about ZFR (Yeah, I'm game for lynching myself... What? I'm scum until proven innocent, no?)
Cristi, because I thought her D1 play was very useless - barking at flub for his avatar, and nothing else really. Today, she seems more on defensive against Lift and not particularly hunting still. And I think her flip would provide more information that ZFR flipping vanilla (It provides information about the setup, and might indicate whether SPF's faction claim makes any sense), even though I do see her as nothing but vanilla, at least at present.
Adalia seems very tiptoe-y about certain subjects, and outright superficial about scumhunting. It might be he doesn't want to get too invested, since Bookwyrm returns this weekend, or it might be something more sinister...

Since there's no real reason to keep my vote here, especially since HSL is leaving us (Nooooo! :( He seemed very good at this. I'm sure he'd end up getting me killed :O):
unvote HypersomniacLive

And the one I view as most scummy or most death-informative of the people show cased right now:
vote cristigale

About the brig; it makes sense to use, but I'm not sure if I follow the brigwagons currently;
flub because he's flub and screwing flub seems to be a theme?
ZFR because everyone's sure he's town, and thus brigging him will lower needed lunch votes?
Think I need some help understanding this :p

But if he does happen to be scum he may have a power beyond the NK, and stopping that (as well as removing his insight from the night chat, he is clever) is worth lowering the bar for lynching (and let's face it, we don't want a repeat of yesterday).

Nice analysis over all, I feel I agree with most if not all of it.
What do you feel I'm ignoring or tipoeing around? I'll try to answer any question I can.
I will admit I'm not investing as much time into this as I probably could because I know I'm going back out when Bookwyrm returns.



There is a kind of flavour element that may support cristi's claim. Or it may suggest she chose her claim hoping someone else would notice it or mention it and validate her claim in some way.
That's why I asked when she first claimed what connection her character had to being a deputy, as I expected her to bring it up. I'm not sure if the fact that she didn't means her claim might be genuine, that she's second guessed my bluff or that it's entirely unconnected.

Anyway, when I googled her character and read his bio on Wikipedia I noticed this line in particular;
"Following the fleet's flight from the Colonies, he is given tasks suited to his level of intelligence and education including helping his idol, Doctor Gaius Baltar, design a Cylon detector."
Designed a cylon detector is the kind of thing you might expect a cop to do... admittedly we have a Gaius flip and he wasn't the cop so I'm not sure it means anything or not, but I thought it best to share and see what everyone else thinks.
To me it rings of cristi looking for a reasonable and viable fake claim but I may just be tunnelling, and considering the fact she hasn't mentioned it...

Quick post to say welcome back Trent! :D Very glad to have you back. And apologies, I promised a post and life got in the way. I'll get to that.

Scattered thoughts:

bler, must admit to side-eyeing you a bit about your change of heart over cristi's claim. It surprised me that you believed it so readily, or at least were less critical than others at first. I'm also a bit alarmed by your defence of yourself as "well when I'm town I behave like this, c.f. previous games". That doesn't prove anything...

Lift flared up at me, I snuffed out his objections with science, he instantly backed down and now thinks I'm probably not scum. I... well. That was easy. :) He's not wrong, but the nature of the flare up still strikes me as odd.

I happen to know Joe is tied up IRL at the moment, so I'm not reading anything into his silence right now.

I'm completely in agreement with Damnation. Which puts me on edge, a little, but hey.

ZFR, I wish my dreams had as much ice cream in them as that... but why are you voting to brig yourself? I know it's not the same as voting for yourself but still.
Also your #874 strikes me as a bit odd - I have never come across a deputy either, but it was a very fast google, and gave me more information on where to put my vote. No one is safe. We're only sorry.

SPF, oh shush. :P This is why I prefer to make sparse longer posts.

Also on a general note I'm not reading too much into the sleeper comment. I can see why it set alarm bells ringing for people but I don't have the same game history to refer to. Gaeta could be considered a "traitor", depends whose side you're on... [Incidentally that arc was why I quit watching in S3. The humans started to behave despicably and I found I hated everyone.]

Adalia - nice, but in the series Gaius fakes a cylon detection result, claiming a person is not a cylon when his test shows that they are. Starbuck becomes captain in S2, she's a lieutenant in S1. And Roslin is elected President, and is technically I guess a bit more than a crew regular - isn't the president the super head of the army or something (shudder). I honestly don't think reading into character flavour is going to help, it's pretty inconsistent so far.

flub, I like the elegance of your reasoning in #861, agree with you in #864... but it's still WIFOM. You're kind of saying that you think a town roleblocker is the most likely to be a lie, because SPF is still alive. Regardless of Deputy being a safe falseclaim, and with no sense of what PR the mafia have to make this, anything else than a barefaced lie in the face of certain lunch.

bler, SPF, ZFR, what would it take to get you back on the cristi wagon? You all say you would be okay with lunching with cristi, though you're all voting for adaliawyrms at the minute, I think. We are EOD-24 hours, more or less. Not to rush you or anything, but what do you hope to achieve here?

Can we have a votecount please?

I vaguely recall that.
I agree though, which is what led me to believe it was perhaps a subtle flavour catch to hang a fake claim on (something others have done in games with flavour based on other media) to make it sound more believable.
I only mentioned it as I was expecting her to bring it up as evidence of her claim being true and when she didn't I thought it was worth sharing in case my gut reaction is wrong.

I absolutely think she is scum and the right lynch though.

flub: probably that's the reason, yes, basically brig him because he is flubby. Meaning you never know when he is scum, because he is intentionally scummy even when he is town.

ZFR (the brigging I prefer): here we have a case of no-risk but possible gain for town. If ZFR is town, we don't lose anything. If he is scum, scum loses some communication and planning capability and possibly a PR. A no-risk for some possible gain scenario is quite a sweet deal for town, I think.

Why? As ZFR himself and I outlined: town doesn't lose anything. brig or no, we need 6 non-ZFR votes to lynch on any wagon. And while it is true that scum doesn't lose the NK, they still lose one communicator and planner and possible one PR. And even restricts their options about who performs the NK. All in all the only ones who possibly can lose anything from this specific brigging are scum. So why are you against it?

@elebutterfly: sorry to disappoint you, but 'reduced suspicion' or even 'neutral' does not mean that I think you are not scum. You're not off the hook yet. Just at the moment we have players around that are scummier than you and that also promise more information on a flip. Right now we agree on who the preferred lynch-target should be and for the moment I have no way of distinguishing, if that is an honest conviction on your part or whether you are just bussing a scumbuddy. But whatever the case may be, I'm not interested in your lynch today unless it becomes necessary to avoid another no-lynch.

I believe ZFR is town, I have no interest in brigging a town player

ZFR because there's no real town disadvantage to brigging him (as a claimed vanilla) but a possible scum disadvantage (no night chat and no night action - if scum!ZFR has a power then he can't use it and even if he doesn't it might force the other toasters to choose between NK and an action).

I've talked myself into it.
Unbrig flub
Brig ZFR

ele - But sparse longer posts are carefully crafted and thus easier to hide scumminess in... ¬_¬
I do longer posts only when catching up a significant amount.

I left my vote on Book(s) to not take momentum from my preferred lunch. I think cristi is L-2 and Book(s) is L-3 and we're not down to 24 hours just yet.
If we do brig ZFR, whoever Brighammers should check what effect that's going to have on the votes. I think ZFR's on the Book(s) wagon, so that one will lose momentum and Cristi will get one closer to lunch.

Just a quick post before I head out from work (won't be around until tomorrow):
While true, it might appear as such if one looks at Gaeta in isolation, there are some issues, however:
Baltar doesn't make use of Gaeta, and pretty much dismisses him. Beyond that, Baltar's Cylon Detector shows results in red (Cylon) or green (human); until he tests his first test subject, Sharon Valerii/Boomer, who shows red. Baltar becomes afraid of how she might react, and sabotages his own Cylon Detector to always only show green. Ergo, Baltar's Detector doesn't work because of himself.

About Saul being next in line, and Gaeta after Saul. Here are the flavorbased issues with that:
While the Chain of Command might be unclear, in the show when Adama is shot, Saul takes over as Commander of Galactica, with Captain Aaron Kelly being the interim XO. Aaron Kelly, at the time, has the same rank as Lee Adama, and currently, by this game, would have the same rank as Starbuck (See SPF's Crew claim).
While the game might have muddied flavor rankings, since Starbuck is promoted to captain by Admiral Cain (who first shows up midseason 2); Gaeta is still very far down the CoC even here.
If Cristi is Gaeta and really is a Deputy, then flavorwise it would more than likely not be related to the CoC - it would seem more indicative of his relation to Baltar, who we know as the town Miller. Potentially, that might also show us that there isn't actually a Cop, as the person who would have been the Cop by flavor is the Miller. Still, both are traitors in the story and should be shot!

I just find her flavor reasoning very strange, basing it on the CoC.

The "d'ya like dags?" votecount.

Lynch:

cristigale - 5 (Lifthrasil, adaliaBookwyrms, elebutterfly, trentonlf, Damnation)
adaliaBookwyrms - 4 (cristigale, ZFR, SirPimalform, bler144)
SirPrimalform - 1 (flubbucket)

Brig:

ZFR - 4 (Lifthrasil, adaliaBookwyrms, ZFR. SirPrimalform)
flubbucket - 2 (JoeSapphire, elebutterfly)

With 12 active players, it takes 7 votes to reach a consensus.

The deadline for the end of Day 2 is Saturday 21st of July at 23:00 UTC.

---

Also, as a replacement for HSL has not been forthcoming, I will unfortunately have to modkill him if a subtitute has not taken his spot before the final 24 hours begin.