Lifthrasil: also I agree that self-voting rarely helps town.
That is a very bold stance to take. Kudos for your bravery on that controversial issue ;)
Well...I confess I was hoping for more, but it's something I guess.
Well...I confess I was hoping for more, but it's something I guess.
I jest only slightly - that is exactly how I feel about the two people I was hoping would be a bit more into... elaborating their views.
Considering you're likely to be on the menu, I really was expecting a bit of a broader world view of D1 and where you would go D2. Perhaps you were just enjoying your weekend, but it kind of makes me think you're just picking up where D1 left off - on defense and waiting to be pushed to claim.
If that is the case, and you are town, don't you have any concern that town is going to fritter around for the better part of D2 before reaching that inevitable point? I guess I don't view it as productive, though perhaps I'm confusing that with proactive.
adaliabooks: 1) I found ZFR townie day 1 (but would still have lynched him, you know me), but his out the gate attack on Hyper and Damnation rubs me the wrong way. Sure, it's crap that it went to no lynch and Hyper doesn't come out of it looking great, but neither do a lot of other people really. It should never have been allowed to get to that point in the first place, the fact that people couldn't choose from one of two or three possible lynches in 5 minutes really isn't surprising.
2) Ok, having done a reread I have completely misrepresented ZFR. The post I remember is one where Joe had actually altered the quote slightly;
1) Funny - the things that you say are bugging you in D2 are the things that bugged me D1. While I'm not proud of continuing to be a smurfhole to him, I think I've just come around to the MU view that "bad play != scum play." What's the motive/agenda/whatever for scum!zfr surviving D1 and coming out with an attack that is a) not particularly well-based, and b) pissing in the wind anyway?
So sure, it's bad play. /shrug
2) That joke I do remember - that was quite funny. ;)
Thanks for compiling that. Though as for the thoughts part, in line with your prior argument about the NK, without knowing anything more than Vitek (and one's own alignment)...it's pretty speculative.
I would absolutely agree that I defended cristi D1. D2 I would say my only defense of her has been that the "stalling" angle strikes me as meh if not deeply suspect, having been present for at least a chunk of that time. In the exact same way I would defend (and have) Joe/HSL for their last 10 minutes. It was a mess independent of any single player.
But yes, I'm aware that scum!cristi flip probably looks bad for me. I would note, the thing I know that you don't is that it's one directional - when I flip town it won't tell you anything about cristi's alignment. Much the same as Vitek's flip doesn't actually tell us anything about cristi (attacked) or flub (defended).
Probably irrelevant considering she may not outlive D2. /shrug I would say, as above, I kinda expected her to have something more to say than she has. So while she wouldn't be my top choice, I'm not averse to a cristi wagon at this point.
I'd say, probably prematurely since ele hasn't even made an appearance, there's only 4 players besides myself I'm set against lynching today at this moment on events to this point, and cristi is not on that 'no' list.
SirPrimalform: I'm just joking, you seem a lot less scummy than Bookwyrm but I'm trying not to let you off his hook. I found him very scummy D1 but obviously you're limited in what you can answer about that behaviour.
So very limited translates to "guess I won't just follow up at all"?
adalia does know wyrm (meta, certainly), they share a pm, and I'm unless I'm mistaken adalia said something about the two of them chatting before wyrm absconded. You could certainly ask...something, one would think.
Lifthrasil: Yep. That was my assumption. Otherwise the "I need time to (fabricate a) claim" doesn't make sense. If she were town, she wouldn't have
needed time for just stating her role. If she had had a perfect false-claim prepared, she wouldn't have needed time either. So, that leaves only the conclusion that, once she felt the heat, she wanted to prepare the 'perfect claim', for whatever reason, but needed time for that.
Yes, it is possible that she has some town reasons for wanting to fine-tune her claim. What to leave out for example. But I get the impression that she rather has scum reasons for that stalling she did.
Concerning your screw-up, you can wriggle all you want. I think town-HSL would have voted in that post where you wrote that 'we have less than 5 minutes'. Just to make sure that we don't go to no-lynch. To me it looks as if you, just like your buddy cristi, were stalling.
bler144: I can't recall - where you actually present in that time window, or are you judging based on a read after the fact?
Lifthrasil: No, I wasn't present. I was in bed. I'm just judging based on the absurdity of writing: "Hey, we have less than 5 minutes left!" ... and not using that very post to vote! That is willfully risking a no-lynch. Maybe it's just HSL's compulsive behaviour that makes him want to always be the last one who votes. But, as I explain, to me this error of HSL makes more sense under the assumption that he is scum than under the assumption that he is town. Do you disagree?
1) That only holds if you ignore the laws of spacetime. Having even the briefest answer requires thinking, typing, posting, and hoping nothing changes in the gamestate by the time you hit submit. And for me, even true-claiming I would probably have to check my PM first lest I say something hastily that later gets my lynched for LAL on X-oxamination. On the clock, every one of those seconds count. Say town!she writes the post and claims and in that time two people hammered ZFR - her claim had no benefit, and gives scum more info going into nightfall.
You don't just magically make thoughts appear instantaneously on the page fully formed.
I will absolutely grant that you COULD be correct. But honestly, even if she turns out to be scum I suspect she would tell us post-game that you were right for the wrong reasons. /shrug
2) Yes, I disagree. Like I think I said, I had the luxury of walking away because I was already on ZFR at L-2 and not inclined to fire drill to a player I wasn't particularly interested in nor aware of how we'd reached that gamestate. But before I gave up just trying to post anything was nerve wracking. While you are correct that HSL could have been stalling, a) that only really makes sense if both cristi and ZFR are buddies - otherwise you just commit to either busing or voting the other (hard, but not thaaat hard), and b) while time was tight for everyone, only town is wrestling with the complete lack of info.
And...I spent way too long on this when I should have been getting to the office and errands :(