1. agree
2. lol - good to see some things don't change
3. I disagree. Look back at what's happening (at least, to the extent I can recreate it) and in the context of gog's crappy software. Say cristi is UTR (useful town role) - she's L-2, but like a bunch of people have already gone off-line and at least one of those not on her wagon who's present is indicating they won't vote her. Do you really just up and claim in a situation where the votes just may not be there? For the record, I'm not clearing her - I just also wholly understand not just coughing up info at EOD when there's at least a solid chance no lynch happens even if you sit pat.

Which...you may have noticed, no lynch DID happen. But I'd be curious what you think we should do with the fact that if she is town, scum know she's town and ergo probably assume she's roled up based on the sum of her EOD posts.
4. Interesting connection on how roleblocker would work flavour-wise. It's flavour, of course, so meh. But pursue your own logic - you believe the role should be related to the character. Which common or semi-common role would you tie to this president? Cop? Doctor? JOAT? Serial Killer?

We're not talking about the president from Saints Row 4, after all.

I think you are right tactically that we should brig ZFR. That hadn't occurred to me, but it's sound. I would amend it should be done before night, but I'm not inclined to do it until we see D2 take shape a bit. There's no scum daychat, so no rush, and while he should be brigged overnight, it does impact the vote (and maj#) as well, which we should at least consider if not discuss.

At risk of raising eyebrows, I'm going to go against the grain (and my own meta) and say this is just scumLift, not scumscumLift. ;)

I may disagree with him on a number of points, but I'm actually leaning this slot town. Can explain if anyone cares.

Ok, I'm here!

First, to answer the obvious question that a few people have already asked:

I blocked Flubbucket.

More to come.

This. In the show Gaius is a weaselly jerk who corroborates with the enemy and puts everybody at risk to save himself. The survivor or traitor roles spring to mind. He acts really untrustworthy and sneaky and nuts all the time but everybody continues to trust him with sensitive security work and governmental duties. In the show he's the opposite of a miller!

Starbuck's roleblocker power makes sense in that she's a vivacious central character who can do whatever she wants. It makes sense that she's a power role. I don't see any particular connection between the power and the character though: We can picture her getting people drunk or knocking people out or bundling them into a cupboard, but we could also picture her doing many other roles too.

I think it's a big jump to be certain that widow Goldfarb has a power just because she's the president. Couldn't the fact that she's the president give a good reason for her having no powers (you've got too much paperwork/you're too well known to go sneaking around/you can't afford to put yourself at any more risk than you already are/you're too busy having batshit prophetic hallucinations) ...

I'm not in support of brigging ZFR. I'm fairly certain he's town, and don't forget, brigging a town player means losing their vote. The brig is not without dangers.



I'm interested in Bler's reason why lifthrabbil is town.


makes sense to roleblock flub. I may have been tempted to do the same if I were roleblocker... I'm keen to hear your more.

On phone so not going to attempt to reply properly.

@bler
Good point about the claimed VR, I honestly hadn't even considered he should be the logical NK. As for cristi I'm more inclined to believe she's scum and that's why there was no NK there.
Whether that suggests SPF is scum too I don't know, or if scum suspect (or know if they have a strongman) we have a doctor they may not have wanted to go for the obvious kill in case it was blocked. Of course if they have a strongman you'd have to wonder why they didn't use it in that case.
But Vitek was my towniest town read so on that score I can completely see why scum would choose him. There's also WIFOM and lynchability to think about, perhaps scum think they can get SPF lynched.

As for ZFR, I'm not setting him up for a lunch (ha, that wasn't even intentional, damn autocorrect) at all, I think that ship has sailed and he should have gone out yesterday. I'm not saying I wouldn't vote him I'd he does something scummy but for know I tend to believe he's town.

Yeah, a flub reread is literally because it would be easy and might confirm his towniness a bit for me. He's displaying some behaviour I've seen from him before and count as town and I want to check I'm remembering it right (and it won't take long, unlike rereading you).

3. That wasn't the point. As I wrote, I know that there are reasons not to claim. But that's not what she said. She didn't say: "I don't want to claim (yet)". She said "I need time to claim", signaling willingness to claim, but stalling. For me that's something different. It just rings some alarm-bells.

Also, you raised a good point yourself: IF cristi is town, then scum would have read her stalling/unwillingness to claim as a sign that she has a PR. With the amount of suspicion she gathered yesterday, it was also unlikely that she would be protected. If she's town, she was a most likely unprotected probable PR. So why is she alive? ... Of course, here WIFOM cuts in. Maybe she was left alive for exactly that reason. To make her look bad. But still, combining her survival with her post and her posts from yesterday, she looks quite suspicious.

4. depends on the faction. If Roslin is scum, Godfather would fit a president very nicely. If she is town, I would think some kind of investigative role fits her. Not because of being president, but because Laura Roslin in the series is quite nosy and never lets go if she suspects something foul going on. But that's all just speculation.

(assuming the SIrPent is town)
The scum know that SirP is a roleblocker, so they cannot drink the wine in front of vitek, but they ALSO know that a town doctor would know he's a roleblocker, so logically they cannot drink the wine in front of SirP. Following the argument on further, the town claim might be believed, which would make communication for town easier on day two, so they cannot drink the wine in front of vitek. HOWEVER, the claim may not be believed, which may lead to a mislynch, so they cannot drink the wine in front of SirP.

As it happens, she didn't have time to claim - if Hypersomniac had voted Cristi Gee and we'd both been a few seconds earlier she would have been lynched without time to hear her claim. Time was very tight and the situation was very stressful (and if Cristi's loading times were anything like mine simply typing a post and waiting for it to send might have taken almost 5 minutes.)

Not saying she's town. Just pointing out where I think you've misunderstood.

I'm quite interested in the number of scum reads for Cristi - who still thinks she's the most likely lynch target today?


It just occured to me how Vitek orchestrated Cristi's near-lunch from 1 vote to 6 within half an hour. (I assume that if we'd had five more minutes Hypersomniac would have changed his vote and it would have been lynch.
And now Vitek dead! Perhaps the mafia were afraid he would be able to build the same lunchwagon today, so I cannot drink the wine in front of Cristigale. On the contrary, they knew that if they killed Vitek this trail of thought would be pursued so it would be absolute folly to drink the wine in front of me.

Simply embellishing your point: There's no way we can reason anything concrete from the choice of nightkill.

Welcome adaliabooks!

Ok, thoughts from EoD1:

Cristi - I agree that the "I need time to claim" thing is slightly funny.
ZFR - I'm inclined to believe the name claim as it doesn't seem to have been countered, however names are not supposed to be considered AI and it seems pretty weird for the president to have no powers.
Flubbucket - unrepentent about broken anti-town logic, not necessarily out of character but hard to ignore. Up to something.
HypersomniacLive - So reluctant to vote that they wait until after the deadline. Considering you also made the penultimate post before the deadline, it's hard to see why you didn't include the vote in that post.
JoeSapphire - You as well! Waiting until after the deadline to vote... why?
Elebutterfly - Was absent almost the entire day, made one post in which she hopped on my wagon and then disappeared again.


F5/F3?

I'll drink both. It's ok, I spent years building up a resistance to the poison.

You're not quite right there. She only got as far as 5 votes, I don't think she ever got to 6. Unless you're counting your twilight vote? Which you shouldn't be.

I am. I wrote the vote when I read our host's five-minute warning. I sent the vote and was 'ninjaed' by the deadline finishing. I didn't wait until after the deadline to vote.

Why didn't you join the cristigale wagon when damnation voted?

Oh wow, so internet trouble I guess? Ok.

I wasn't that big on the Cristiwagon really and wasn't online at the point when Damnation voted.
I was posting from my phone and missed at least the last 5 minutes due to distractions from elsewhere. Hence my GOB post when I realised the time and returned to the thread.
Me fucking up doesn't preclude me from questioning other people's fuckups. :P

Got a notification, and saw that Lirthrasil's on my case (how surprising), and only did a quick skim upwards to the D2 opening post, but let me start by saying that regarding the frakking failed lunch, I'm aware of, and take responsibility for, my share on that, but only for my share.

Going to catch up on posts, and reply/comment, but be warned that it may take a while to be coherent; I've been outside till early afternoon, and think I might have a very light sunstroke, or just before that (been feeling funny all day since).


On a non-game related note - is the site taking forever to load for anyone else, or is it just me?

Agree with the bulk of your post.

To be clear, I'm not saying Liftrabbit is town, just leeeeeaning town (pre-post edit, at the time I made that one post, anyway). I like the D2 opening so far, but the main reason is really how he handled EOD. I pretty much always slam Lift because I feel like he's misrepresenting, but in this case as I was trying to sort everything that happened up to EOD that I missed live, my perception were a number of the fights he picked and the conclusions he came to were the sort of things a player might conclude stepping in when he did with no other info.

E.g. his take on Damn v. Wyrm. And his lack of certainty on where people were seeing SPF as scummy (fair, given that most of that, at least imo was early in D1) IDK, it's not a lot, but it read to me legitimately as someone who didn't know what was going on and didn't have a particular agenda getting thrust into having to make a hasty decision down the stretch on a single read of a pretty thin D1.

That is where a town player would absolutely be. A scum player (no daychat, certainly) might or might not be tripped up depending on what else they knew.

Still, my interest in this slot would... go up if scum!SPF. Down if...IDK. Haven't thought that far yet.Now that we have a flip if I get time I'll try and re-read more than just Ele (the one full read I did do N1).


bler was my towniest town read. I wouldn't have voted/pursued Vitek based on D1, but there were any number of scenarios in which that was far from lock - scum!flub, scum!ZFR, town!cristi, etc. If your argument is "is that a crazy NK, no!" then sure. It's not crazy. But...

flub has had a few moments that pinged me as town as well, so ok. But for me that would require going and reading other games which IDC to do at this point.



3. Perhaps a regional language difference, but I think you're parsing this too finely. The implication imo clearly is "If there are two more votes I need to know that in time to claim." Or maybe her claim is more complicated than just name/role, for whatever reason. IDK.

2. WIFOM a given. Plus maybe she has a shit role. Miller is off the table now, but scum wouldn't have known that when they made their choice. Maybe she's vengeful. Maybe bulletproof. Maybe doc who can self-protect. Lots of reasons not to hit her specifically if you have no idea what she is. And thus the rub in making her claim now just for the sake of making her claim.

My point is it's curious they have a known powerful town!role and a strongly teased town!role and scum just go fishing? Even a doc save isn't inherently a lock to be a bad thing for them given the D1 no lynch and the claimed RB. Probably nothing we can resolve D2, but worth keeping in mind later, perhaps. Even if town mislynches one they're leaving the other roaming at least one more night.

Besides, I tend to think the answer is probably as simple as scum!SPF. /shrug

1. Godfather, you say? Maybe. But - off the cuff - if the game has both a miller and a godfather...how the frak does mod balance the game?

If there were a cop you would have a town role that is always swingy even in a normal setup suddenly be a huuuge swing and major liability to town almost as much as an asset. So what's the logic of that setup? And I say this as the person who built an entire game around a paranoid/naive cop duo. Bad info from a cop is a huge issue.


Sooo then, assuming you are right, in this world are we left with
a) No town cop / parity cop at all? and/or
b) otherWTF like town RB in a game with a brig to make up for smurfed up investigation roles?

Don't answer that.

...But I'm not going to have you town-leaning for long, am I? ;)



Most likely? Certainly. Most interesting or productive?...eh.

Which point, specifically?

1) Final 5 / Final 3 End of game, usually with MYLO/LYLO in play - who does scum set up or exploit FTW?

Unless scum think town!ZFR is lying, he's pretty unlikely to be NKed, so it's not hard to imagine him being key to the end game. adalia's post reads as setting him up to be lynched later now. Lift is starting to verge on that territory with "maybe Roslin is godfather!" aside from all the setup design mess and role talk that casually being like "Maybe there's a Miller and Godfather! And a this and that!" opens the door to.

For me, it's simple. Either we need to lynch ZFR now, so that at least we get some value from the info now (however thin) or he's just off the table for anything that happened D1 permanently.

If he starts out and out wolfing henceforth, or there's some sort of night action that provides info, swell, re-evaluate. By all means, prod him and ask questions.

But this whole "maybe it's a fake claim" thing I read as scummy. While true, if coming from town it's just not helpful - we're either lynching him or we're not. Setting up a newish player who claimed VT to be an easy lynch later, just...no. Stop.

It appears fine for me. I'm having some wifi issues unrelated to goggery.

Back to work for a bit.

For me Cristi is still my top choice for scum.

Any indication that you were visited last night?

I'm not experiencing any issues at the moment



I will also say that if the discussion continues about tossing ZRF in the brig I will not get on board with it, I still don't see the brig being a useful tool at this stage and only somewhat useful toward the end game.


Vote cristigale

Don't answer that! We don't need to give away our power roles yet.