I'll see if I cannot steal some time when I turn in to work to make more in depth post. There are quite a few things I'd like to comment on, but it seems bler was getting lonely :)

Also, bler, nice spotting on ZFR's stark contradiction there. I had it pegged as a very weird phrasing and wanted to reread (you quoting his statements helped :p)

As for wagons I'm compelled to join, I largely agree with wyrm and bler on Sirpr Ima L Form, and I find it the one I could genuinely lend my vote to.

Four types of actions

1) Done by town, not done by scum.
2) Done by scum, not by town.
3) Done by scum and town.
4) Not done by scum nor town.

For me if an action is labelled as "scummy" it specifically refers to type (2).

My action was type 4. It was stupid to do for either town or scum; I admitted that. However it's NOT to be done by scum (ergo "No scum in his right mind would do it"). And also NOT to be done by town (ergo "they needen't be scum").

My second statement wasn't "scum might do it; town might do it." My second was neither should do it.

Dude, I'm genuinely sorry.

OK, I see what you mean now. Yes, I believe my read on this was way off here.

Nodded off…

Yes, I meant SPF. We tend to shorten most of the longer names, would something else work better?

If I wasn't clear, I will vote for whichever one of ZFR and SPF will achieve a lynch.

I stated my position on the avatar in post #314. If you see no truth in that, we simply disagree. Yes, I really do feel that strongly about flub's avatar. You indicated your read on ZFR was mostly gut, this is my gut. This of course is WIFOM, but does scum!me simply dig in my heels on something that has caused such contention?

If I see something I think is overtly scummy, I vote it. I haven't seen flubb do anything particularly scummy since then. Nor have I seen him do anything that makes me think he is town. He has participated more than expected and had a few apparently serious comments. However, if anything, it makes me slightly more suspicious of him. Town!flubb typically doesn't have a care in the world while scum!flub may have an agenda. The net result is I still think he is scum.

I've never been the type of person to campaign for my reads, at least not while there are multiple scum. Someone else will likely see something I'm missing. Generally speaking, I don't find my D1 scum hunting to be very effective. I've found it more useful during D1 to determine who I think is town and narrow down my POE list. That's where I've focused ny

Best I can tell, this is town-trent.

Made me laugh coffee through my nose.

Welcome Lifthrasil, I'll unvote until you have a chance to read. Then I'll revote.

Unvote: Lifthrabbit

I am a Nation of Dams, this is true. We have terrible tourist attraction, but amazing healthcare. You're hurt? We'll build a new dam, and have a bottle of whisky!

Well, his statement only gives me an idea, and I am in no way certain if I'm right. I could definately see myself being wrong about it. If people want me to share my theory, I see no real harm in it.
Considering what PoppyAppletree has said about the setup being lore-newb-friendly, I don't think there's more to it than a flavor thing. And if the flavor of roles are indeed tied to powers and alignments, I'm damn sure I cannot place anything on my theory either.

I don't rightly think you're missing anything - I spoke plainly when I said "But to make people's lives easier, it's either because A) youvre not reading my post closely enough, or B) I do not want to share my opinion of you just yet."

HypersomniacLive pretty much has a hold of my meaning - When I'm joking, you cannot really exclude that I'm not being serious as well. And when you're certain I'm serious, you cannot really exclude that I might be joking.
Like I said, I'm a very sarcastic person. Add in an occasional dash of sardonicism and some self-deprecating humour and you're on easy street of understanding who I am - just not necessarily what I say. In short - take what I say the way you understand it, and if you're in doubt, try a different angle.
And the whole goat thing. It's just what I do. I love saying the word (I like the animal too, but that's not of consequence). I use goat in lieu of god, as I am not religious, and I've begun using goat in lieu of fuck at times, and use it as a soft insult. I use the word a lot, really.

My question is here: Why haven't you done so?
I think it fairly safe to say that post 281 is very open to critique, no?

Being provocative is what I do! It's a tad suspect that you think me talking flavor is suspect considering you, yourself talk flavor and you did so early on. Should you find yourself suspect then? :p

Clearly I'm doing something wrong! Quick! Do something scummy!

Uuuh...
Uuuh...

I know!
unvote JoeSapphire
vote Damnation
unvote Damnation
vote SirPrimalform

Also, the goatening is becoming real! It shall consume us all!

*blinks thrice and says everything*
You didn't really ruin anything, you just pointed out my intention. Reading it through my phrasing is just to your benefit, no?

It's a shame littlerabbit was replaced. I'd really have liked to have an answer to her question. I doubt Lif can provide it, but I suppose it's possible.

Oh, and hi Lifthrasil! Welcome aboard! Please tell us why you'd ask me if I explicitly think flubbster is Town Cop!

Good, so I understood your statement quite clearly. And I'm not distorting it, really. It's interesting you'd think that.
Perhaps I'm having a clarification issue here, but I'm saying the same thing as you are, just not that lynch would be my go-to resolution. Do note I at no point excluded any other result of such a claim in any of my posts.

1) Doesn't refer to the point in and of itself really. I get what you mean, but what I'm saying is that I would consider such a game to have no scum, as it has no town either. Semantics, perhaps, but that is what I said.
2) Yes, I did, and you make that statement as though I've only first done so now? And no inclination towards the fact that *I* did it, not someone else?

Scum is more likely to do it, I suppose. There's no real sense in arguing against that, but that doesn't mean it cannot be a scum hunting tactic either. I've actually explained part of my reasoning.

On the town strategy I'm referring to, and the one I've always used; I'm going to be nice here: Town should hunt scum, nothing else. They should not care if they appear scum.
Sure, there are details that go into that - such as not make yourself the prime target for a lunch, etc..

You can read it anyway you want. But you got me thinking if I've messed up certain things, so I'll look back.
And nope, I haven't. Yes, I've commented theorizing on how I perceive your reaction once (Hint: I haven't shared my concrete read). The post I'm thinking you're referring to as the first time speaks of reactions in general, then thanking you for jumping to his defense. You jumping to his defense is not the only thing there is in a reaction.
My point in the previous post was relatively simple: You have attempted to outright tell me how I should perceive your reaction. Maybe I agree with you and do think you simply got very confused and felt you had to have some answers as to why, maybe I don't. I'm choosing to keep my cards to myself here.
And besides, I have primarily fished for reactions from the post from everyone - you're not the only one to react, you're just the only one to engage me about it and perhaps try to influence me.

Oh, and I got to say, I love the passive aggressiveness in post #346! This is shaping up real nice!

And you went from crazed questioning to guano insane questioning now? Is that escalation now, or do you consider the two terms the same? I certainly do not.

Whew. That was a lot. I have one page (this one) to go through, then I'll post some of my thoughts.

EBWOP: End of last paragraph: ....focused my attention.

In a nutshell, yes. (profile picture)

My reads are:
Likely Town (in alphabetical order)
bler
Joe
trent
Vitek

Hyper sits on the line due to limited participation, I like what I've seen so far.

One is town, not sorting today. I don't see this as T/T or W/W
Bookwyrm
Damnation

POE:
Ele (least likely to vote here)

rabbit/lift - I see the concern about role-fishing - not voting today, Lift deserves a chance to play

SPF
ZFR

Scum:
Flubb

I liked bler's final arguments:
Vote: ZFR

I'll be back in about 6 hours.

No! Please. I don't know what littlerabbit was thinking, but if there is a town cop, obviously, he should stay hidden until he has a good reason to reveal himself!


So, here's my first observation: HSL depends on electricity. Did you see that? He had a power outage and immediately fell silent. So he must be a toaster! ;-)


...OK. Joking and banter over. Just one more non-game thing: trent, I'm very sorry to hear about the diagnosis and I really hope that she can defeat the cancer and get well again!


And now some input for the game:

I know the issue has been discussed back and forth, but I'm new so here's my two cents: "There is no chance of hurting town" is such a blatantly wrong statement. If we accidentally jail an important PR, we either lose their power for the night or force them to reveal themselves. So, while I agree that brigging can be used for town purposes, it can also be abused by scum to push for role-reveals.

Now some observations about players. bler, HSL and trent seem to be their usual selves. bler and HSL are wordy and provide lots of input. So both are leaning town for me. I usually read trent as town as well (we often seem to think alike), but I have been wrong with that read. The only thing that I wonder is: why did trent not explode when littlerabbit asked about the town cop? Usually discussing roles on Day 1 is a red flag for trent, is it not?

ZFR: yes, I concur with some of what has been written. He seems very keen on appearing town. Which looks scummy. Starting with the pre-emptive excuse for his RVS vote and continuing to his replies and discussions which feel quite evasive at times. Moreover he obviously didn't read the mod-post (83) when writing about the brig-mechanic in post 92. But here's the thing, all these details feel slightly scummy, yes. But the amount of flak he received feels out of proportion for that. Especially Damnation seems to be very invested in making ZFR look scummy. Add to that some pointless discussions that Damnation aimed at Bookwyrm for some semantics, the bogus scum claim and an overall feeling of aggressivity, I get the impression that Damnation is even scummier than ZFR. So here I have the feeling that either Damnation is trying to throw dirt at ZFR because he's an easy target. Or Damnation and ZFR are playing the distancing game.
One more thing about Damnation: while littlerabbits question about the town cop was very stupid, I noticed that Damnation actually set that up. He hinted that he thought he had figured out flubb's role. Proposing that the traffic cone might be a hidden role claim instead of a hidden faction claim. ... This both serves for discrediting the hinted flubb-avatar-alignment correlation and also waves the idea 'flubb's role might be something related to traffic control *wink wink*' around. As trap for someone to ask what Damnation meant with that statement - which littlerabbit promptly fell for. At least that's the best reason I can think of for littlerabbit to ask that stupid question.

So, all in all while I initially liked Damnation's contributions the entire exchange with Bookwyrm and ZFR made me feel that Damnation is rather scummy. Or Damnation is right with his ZFR-suspicion and Bookwyrm and ZFR are both scum supporting each other. But Bookwyrm feels rather towny to me.

Now, about flubb: initially I thought that cristi was trying too hard to make flubb look bad. But with her statistics over past avatar-alignment relations I wonder, whether she might be on to something after all. Also, cristi normally feels very towny when she is scum (she fooled me twice). So does the fact that she started this game feeling scummy make her town? Of course not, but the WIFOM is especially strong in her case. But back to flubb: yes, there might be a correlation and the fact that Damnation tried to paint that correlation in a different light makes it all the more suspicious. Someone even asked "Wouldn't it be unfair for the other scum to lynch flubb on the basis of an avatar?" ... And there I have to say: No. If flubb is lynched because of his flubbery failing him for once, I'm totally fine with that. It's a choice related to the game he made and I will use anything that other players provide. To analyze and hopefully find scum.
So, flubb gets another 'scummy' spot. And consequently cristy gets a 'towny' read. But if I'm wrong about flubb and he is town after all, then we need to take a very thorough look at cristy. She has been very dangerous as scum in the past!

SPF I haven't played with and there is nothing concrete in his posts where I could put my finger on. He does feel scummy, but as long as there are better targets (flubb, Damnation) I'd rather go for them.

Same with JoeSapphire. I really can't place him and I don't know if that 'slightly scummy' vibe is just my paranoia in relation to a mostly unfamiliar player or whether there is something more. elebutterfly and Vitek don't give me any vibes so far. So they are neutral for me for now.

So, my current scum-team guess is: flubb, Damnation + X, where X might be ZFR or SPF.

I see that ZFR is currently the most popular vote and with the deadline so close, it's also the most probably lynch by now. I will also change to him rather than risk a no-lynch. But I'm afraid lynching him may turn out to be a mistake. ZFR's defensiveness might be newb under pressure after all and Damnation might be using that against him. So if we DO lynch ZFR and he turns out to be town, then Damnation needs some looking at. But for now I leave my

brig Damnation

vote where it is (if we manage to brig scum, it will hamper their communication which would be great!)

and put my lynch vote on my favourite target:

vote flubbucket

Bumb for lift

A few things I forgot to mention:
Cristi's "sleeper agent" speculation looks strange. Yes, it makes sense from the series point of view. But not from the game point of view. Suddenly flipping alignments would feel bastardy. Or if it is a recruiter that would mean we have a cult-like game and I think (hope) our Mod would have warned us about such shenanigans beforehand.

But another setup related question: do we actually know how many scum there are? Most 'scum team' proposals were three players and I reflexively followed the same pattern. Did I miss anything? Did poppy say anywhere that there are three Cylons? Or is that just speculation based on the number of players?

Also, while I don't know yet how useful that will be, I'll write down some notable pairings which I think I have observed. 'vs.' means I think these players were at odds with each other (for whatever reason) and '+' means, they seemed to be supporting each other. Do you think such a list is useful? If so, please extend it.

cristi vs flubb
Damnation + flubb
Damnation vs. ZFR
ZFR + Bookwyrm

Two more correlated things I failed to write in my post above: flubb tried to misrepresent the rules, even after he had been pointed out his error (about how brigging can be abused to falsely paint a towny as scum). Yes, Bookwyrm pointed that out already. But it just adds to the overall 'flubb being more scummy than regular flubbiness'.

But Bookwyrm hat one little sentence that might be read as slip: "You can't brig us all!" ... who is US in that sentence, Bookwyrm?

The "don't you usually point these at 11am?" vote count.

Lynch:

SirPrimalform - 4 (Vitek, Bookwyrm, ZFR, Damnation)
ZFR - 3 (JoeSapphire, bler114, cristigale)
Bookwyrm - 2 (elebutterfly, SirPrimalform)
cristigale - 1 (trentonlf)
flubbucket - 1 (Lifthrabbit)

Brig:

Bookwyrm - 1 (Vitek)
elebutterfly - 1 (Bookwyrm)
Damnation - 1 (Lifthrabbit)

(With 13 active players, it takes 7 votes for a consensus to be reached.)

Day 1 will end today at midnight UTC (11 hours and 25 minutes from now).

Heh, there was another Lift's post on another page and it was actually about sleep cylon theory and him dissing it. :-)


I am still willing to vote SILM (Primal) but I am currently more certain about cristi than him.

Also unbrig.
Brig cristigale.

I'm pretty sure I already said I'd happily go back to ZFR. What I mean by "I think I've chosen correctly" is that I think my vote on Wyrm seems to have rattled ZFR. So when I say I've chosen correctly I mean I think I've found ZFR's scum buddy. ZFR is still my preferred lynch and I listed him first in the post where I listed the wagons I'd support.

Still catching up. Will post more as I go.