Yes.

"Seriously" as opposed to "facetiously". You provide a good example of a facetious scum claim.

Nonsense. Claiming 'likely' means that I think a lynch is the likely result of such an action while I acknowledge that maybe it won't happen for some reason (brig, vig). Such a claim typically results in the scum's lynch, but not always. In that second example, I would have gone on to claim SK (while being Vanilla Town) but Yog already outted us as VT.

1) By having multiple scum teams, all with the typical scum power set, squaring off against each other.

2) You've dispelled your own aggressive question with the slightest bit of thought.

I think scum are much more likely to do something like this, but everyone gets the dumb sometimes. Before that post, I've found your posts to be reasonable and relatively town. That post was just...baffling, and not in a good way.

I don't know what town strategy you are referencing. I'm not planning to wade back through that post, so please highlight it if you want me to review it.

I put out the answer before anyone got around to asking what seemed (to me) to be an obvious question. I was, however, being somewhat tongue-in-cheek on this particular reply point.

And you have commented on my reaction 3 times. What shall we read from this?

50ish posts to read, apparently...

I have no idea, but then I watched the series in 2011 or so. When I google "BSV Orange Pylon" I get this product made by Bedessee Sporting Goods.

Little A, little B. Also a little B and a little A. I will confess I'm not quite getting a good grasp on you yet. But will re-read once caught up to see what it is you think I'm missing there.


Can you elaborate? What exactly did the stick do?


Uhhh....I can't tell if you believe that or not.

But as a point of fact, your logic seems entiiiiirely backwards. My argument at the time I made it, was that your wagon was (oversimplifying) LHF, and thus not particularly valuable as an information source. That makes it HARDER to justify a later vote on you, not easier.

A valid counter-attack would be that I'm hemming and hawing and not committing. That is potentially open to attack as scummy, as it certainly can be an opportunistic hedge. Though certainly also undecided D1 townperson may legitimately hem and haw...you know, with that whole 'not knowing anyone else's alignment' thing we've got going on.

Will have to think about that. Most of your other questionable things for me have been about experience, but...I've always considered you to be pretty sharp in terms of logic. So, your vote is whatever, but...your argument is weird coming from you.

And, of course, wrong, both in it's conclusion (which happens) but more concerning, even the basic premise just doesn't follow.

...now I'm just confused.

back in a bit. will chew on this.

MASS ESSAY REPLY, apologies. Combined with a huge re-read, this took over three hours. No regrets. I'm just a bit sorry it keeps happening in huge chunks like this.

That is a bloody good question... Let me look that up. {The Passage Of Time} Ahh I see what's happened here. I didn't have you "leaning scum", as you so provocatively indicate, so much as I found your contribution to the flub avatar debacle a bit suspect (flavour-related banter). Since that was the only thing that stood out, and since I am fully aware I too have referenced flavour, I didn't consider it enough data to have any firm read.

Good catch! But why didn't you prod bler further..?

People always prefer her over Joe :P I can be elebutt if you like, then you can be ookwy. Response below with bler's comment ->

It seems I misunderstood the tone of Wyrm's post - I had presumed "Would you lynch a player on D1?" followed by "Brigging is a reversible lynch" was a suggestion that we (and therefore Wrym too) might prefer to brig instead of lynch, since the brig is reversible. I reacted with outrage because lynching is still the only weapon town has. Brigging is poking with the soft cushions, in terms of actually defeating the monsters.

Agreed - that was partly why I asked for another votecount. Good point by Vitek on this note in #251.

Y'know I am inclined to agree with you. Re post 251, I also could be persuaded quite easily to get behind an SPF push, but let me continue catching up first.

Hahaha! A similar thing went through my head when bler called me out for my 6 posts. Quality, not quantity. :P If I didn't think it was a lousy wagon at this point in the game, I would be tempted to call for flub's lynch. Sounds like you hit a nerve there...?

The fact that it's not the same as the series means that nothing here is necessarily the same as the series. Otherwise, knowing our sign-up numbers were somehow relevant to our role PMs, I'd have picked on Number Six (Joe) straight away for being a confirmed toaster wearing a red dress with a total disaster of a boyfriend. Also, on a warship, why would a Cylon snap someone's neck instead of picking up one of the many weapons lying around, or using what they presumably are equipped with? Is there a flavour reason for that? But like I said I haven't pursued this at all, and honestly don't attach much importance to it right now. Once we get some more death scenes it might become relevant. Or not..!

And fair point about having already answered the previous games question, apologies.

It's weird, isn't it? But a little inaccurate, if you re-read. So far SPF(#141, #295), rabbit (#206), Joe (#102 and #133), wyrm (#114) and Vitek (#153) have suggested I or things I have said are scummy, at various points. Literally nothing I have said so far has been seen as townie. .... aw. Putting it like that makes me sad.

*Applause*
While I do think you're barking up the wrong tree with ZFR, I also find Wyrm's reaction very interesting. Mostly this bit:

... because he has the both of us pegged as scummy. Um. It's literally right there in the second part of the sentence..!

I must say I'm right with Damnation here, you are writhing around far more wildly than ZFR. And you have already bounced to his defence like this before, back in #161.Allez, hop!

vote bookwyrm

Because:
1)) instigates the brig discussion and pursues it - I initially read this as sowing confusion, then backtracked on that interpretation, and I'm now coming back to it again.
2)) is pro brig on D1 - reasons include town controls the brig (?!), and heavy emphasis on the roleblocker aspect of brigging (conveniently less emphasis on the vote block/majority change aspect). Note no one here is anti-brig necessarily, we just think it's a lousy idea on D1 because it's a waste of time in terms of progress.
3)) points out bler dodging a question in #231 but doesn't prod further.
4)) defends ZFR in #161 and #285 onward by finding Damnation scummy.
5)) Cheerfully hops vote from Joe to cristi in #260 with no stronger argument than in #231 ("my hackles are raised" for the sleeper cylon comment and for analysis of flub's previous avatars.) - openly hoping to start a wagon, but very, very little effort to actually start it. I interpret this as 'I'm definitely hunting out the bad guys, look! I'm trying! No one is listening D: '
6)) #269 quotes self in reply to SPF prodding about this exact thing. No further comment or discussion. See 5)).

Have at you.

This was from post #108 re my unease about wyrm. Has the above dialogue with Damn affected your opinion ?

C.f. Damnation's excellent hounding of ZFR about this in post #286. Damn puts my vague feeling into words: not acting townie, but attempting to prove you're acting townie is suspect this early. I do however, chalk this up to inexperience on ZFR's part. I might get my arse chomped by that later, but currently, that's my feeling.

Reads:
TOASTY: SPF, Wyrm, Vitek
???: rabbit, bler, Hyper, flub, cristi, trent, ZFR
TOWNIE: Damnation, Joe

And now I'm going to bed.

PRE POST EDIT:
Trent, very sorry to hear that, thoughts with you and your family, but very very glad it was caught early and all is well so far with the little one and mama both.

This is scummy.

Vote: littlerabbit

1) Agree.
2) I figured out what avatar I could use that would be super awesome. While you're at it, can you conduct an analysis of what avatar you think I might pick as each of the top 15-20 characters in the BSG canon?
3)
a. Pshaw. Mafia aren't the only ones to ever wield a shot or four. I don't know if you recall, but the only game where I ever sussed out your alignment during the course of meaningful play was the University game where you were town. You've had a few moments here that feel magical in that same way.
b. Besides even if that had been what I meant, who is going to believe you're scum on the basis of my feelings about what you might do... in the future? Literally no one.

But if that works...I also have this feeling Bookwyrm is going to order me the Calexico Pizza from MOD. And a six pack.

Is...what buddying whom?

@Trent -
Good luck and good health to all!


Indeed.

I feel like I'm following you better, generally, with your recent posts, but I don't follow this. You feel strongly enough about ZFR to go back on as the 4th vote...on the assumption that I won't later vote him? So you want him to be the biggest wagon but not actually to go to lynch?

That's...weird.

Or is your argument that ZFR is overreacting = scum!zfr, and which overreaction in particular are you citing?



Think I screwed up my multi-quote tags here...<crosses fingers>

Maybe. WIFOM of what scum will do aside, even from the town perspective it's not always just who's right, but whether they can rally a maj to the same conviction.

Though I did like the joke.

WB! Again. But seriously, I hope everything works out, both b/c I want you to stay in-game and b/c I want things to be okay for you and the fam IRL.

Well then...maybe that's why I'm having trouble following you? I think the rest of your post is serious...so, it's joking?

I actually don't think there's a ton of value in this particular query from HSL, but...since we're here, if that was your gambit / thinking, why not vote him simultaneous to the question rather than partially delayed?

1. lol
2. Pretend I'm not town-reading him - what's your argument for Joe being your top scumread at this specific point in time vs. when you first voted?
3. Cristi has some prominent potential votes, but ... is this just a "Build it and they will come" vote?


RL problems this eve in our household, apparently...sigh.

Catching up, let me know if you want to chat

That's fair I guess, but I feel like bler was on the level with the observation that a bad wagon provides less information. The fact that bler was moving away from the ZFR wagon and ZFR acted as if they were moving closer is what makes it weird. As I originally said, maybe mistaken OMBHS?

Wait, crap. Did I ruin something? If yes, say nothing and blink twice.

Of course you do, it's a classic!

Actually I vote we change it to breakfast. Y'know, because toasters.

Mmmkay... ¬_¬

Because I get scum vibes from both of you so naturally it's relevant.

Actually, I thought Damnation's interrogation was helpful. You seem to be trying awfully hard to try and get Damnation to back off from ZFR.

Well I don't know if the stick is what achieved it, but what I wanted were more posts from ZFR. Sometimes scum can wriggle away by going quiet, votes motivate them to defend themselves.

Now that's an interesting development.

Distancing..?

The post of mine that you're quoting is pointing out that you weren't actually voting for them and were somewhat non-commital about your intention ("if there's no notable change in the game state"). I was simply pointing out the contrast between your maybe-vote and their reaction.

I'm not quite sure I follow your logic about me 'not wanting it to go to lynch'. The wagon can easily go to lynch without you, it only needs just over half the players after all, but that's beside the point.

Yes, I was arguing that ZFR was overreacting to you not actually even jumping on the wagon but just stating a vague intention of doing so. It was the post in which they voted for you - it came across to me like huge OMBHS.

Oh god this has a lot of quotes. Hopefully it all comes out right.


Lastly, Trent: I'm so sorry to hear the bad news, but glad that the procedure went as well as could be hoped and it was caught now. Take care, both your family and yourself.

I should call it a night. I think I've just sloppily pasted/redacted in every post and I end up with unclosed quote tags all over the place. Nothing as dramatic as trent or HSL, but cranky night in this house, apparently.

The curious thing about this discussion is that you're arguing semantics, when the bigger picture is this feeling ZFR is expressing is 100% viable as town or toaster. You could literally write the exact same thing honestly as either alignment and if you're scum just change the noun. Voila.

Tactically (all other things being equal) it matters waaay more as non-town to not get lynched for newbieisms than it does for town. Especially here we tend to lynch town terribly D1 far more often than not, and it's not a game killer by itself. Scum going down easy on D1...however...I don't recall a game town has lost with that gift in hand.

I think you're a step behind - we've apparently moved on to nom/nomming.


:( Well, I'm sorry it wasn't better news, but I'll hope fervently for the 90% cure. Hang in there.

1 If you're referring to the exchange with flub, I wasn't calling you out, I was politely critiquing flub's argument. FWIW, that exchange, as superficial as it was, actually made me less interested in voting him at this point. Though...

2 I think you're missing that I listed you on my wildguess scum team, and you're still in the POE even if I'm much more interested in other happenings over you, like...

3) Yeah. Trent/Joe felt pretty T/T. This has another vibe. Not W/W, but leaning T/W, just not sure which way. Feels like something is at stake there. Makes me more inclined to see ZFR lynch through, though. He's the common denominator here, it feels like.


Thanks for the explanation in general, and for this reminder...need to find something Damnation said.

Can I get a bump? Don't think it's going to take 10 min.

Sorry, just refreshed, bump

The "4am is a great time for a vote count" vote count.

Lunch:

ZFR - 4 (JoeSapphire, trentonlf, littlerabbit, SPF)
SPF - 2 (bler114, Vitek)
JoeSapphire - 1 (Damnation)
flubbucket - 1 (cristigale)
bler114 - 1 (ZFR)
cristigale - 1 (Bookwyrm)
Bookwyrm - 1 (elebutterfly)
littlerabbit - 1 (flubbucket)

Brig:

Bookwyrm - 1 (Vitek)
elebutterfly - 1 (Bookwyrm)
Damnation - 1 (littlerabbit)

(With 13 active players, it takes 7 votes for a dinner reservation to be made.)

Scary stuff. I'm glad they were able to catch it early.

This is pretty much where I started catching up. I may be missing something in newer posts, but I want to address two posts now.

First, thank you for the links to older games.

Here's my thing, typically I wouldn't think twice about a person's avatar. Flubb, however, has made it a point to incorporate a game related avatar into the majority of his games. More importantly, I think he often uses it to hint to his alignment/role. And since he's chosen to do that, I think it' completely fair game to call him on when I see it. In fact, I can't un-see it. So I am not going to ignore it.

Maybe I'm more sensitive too it because I recognized it game 41 (the cult one with the Jim Jones avatar), chose to dismiss it and got recruited. I learned that game that I'm not a fan of cult games. I don't think I've played a cult game since then. I weighed it when considering to playing this game. The mod was deliberately non-committal when Hyper asked about it . So part of the reason I chose to watch the miniseries was to see if there was anything in the story that might support a cult being in the game. The only thing I saw was the Sleeper Cylon. I figured if that was in play it was determined before hand and I was OK risking the possibility. I hope we don't have that, but if we do, I won't feel misled.

Back to my original point. In both the games I reviewed and the ones presented in your links, flubs avatars, more often than not, point to his alignment/role. In flubb's case I DO THINK IT'S AI. I didn’t realize how frequently he did it until I started looking. Originally, I just knew generally that I'd seen him do it before so I called him on it.

Side notes – Yes, I would be mad if I was mafia and one of my teammates was getting read for that. MU prohibits a player from changing their avatar to something game related in the game. It's not really fair because a lot depends on a players knowledge of external information to recognize it. It wouldn’t surprise me if I was the only one who recognized the Jim Jones avatar in the cult game. So perhaps this needs to be discussed post-game. Even if I am wrong and flub is town, I will probably always look at least squinty-eyed at him if I see it in the future.

So I get why players are hesitant or unwilling to use it. But I can't un-see it and what I think it means. It's seems unlikely flub will be lynched today, so I will be moving my vote.


That's long enough, on to Wyrm's post.

*Courtesy bump*