I already stated my intentions earlier -- I'm not going to be casting any votes until I see three or more votes going a specific way. I consider myself too close too Joe considering I die if he is taken out, and there's other people here that can step away and take a more serious look.

The biggest hangup that I'm having is the presence of Masons. Town/Town Lovers is an extremely weak role the way it is played here, especially if there really are Masons in the same game. Why Lovers and not just two Vanilla Town? Maybe they're not Masons or maybe Joe is mafia.


But despite all of this, one thing that I have noticed is this

Where is Az?
He hasn't posted since #519, which was two days ago.
This was the only post that he has made on Day 2.

I am not suggesting a policy lynch because this does not help the town. People who have played with Az more than once or twice probably should consider as to if this is normal behavior from him or not.

Hmm. I like Catte a lot more today than yesterday. I... am confused. If I'm quiet it's because I have little to say that hasn't already been said, and better than i could.

I do like Pooka quite a bit, I don't care for Frost's posts; I don't see how one can be town and the other not.

I'm intrigued by a gunsmith. As someone said, that implies goodies with guns and/or baddies without guns.

I like how Lift pointed out that Razza isn't necessarily town. This is a good point for town!lift (or a good play by scum!lift to sow confusion).

@Joe: did you get confirmation about your lover's alignment the way Catv claimed to have about you? I saw you said something about that, but was unclear. Voluntarily elaborate, please. Because I'm curious--did you get any notification of having a night action played on you--if so, please summarize? Vaguely I recall that such messages happen.

I find it odd that Vitek can self-protect? Nearly every game I've been aware of with a doctor says the doctor cannot self-protect.

Concern I have re RM is the two or three (I forget right now) unconfirmed roles; they'd have to claim at least having a non-townie role for us to know it is RM. Otherwise, this is just a very top-heavy pro-town game, which means scum has to either --be 4 people (33%) or be OP. If the other two or so unclaimed players are protected factionally, this is ... interesting.

I know the setup (obviously) had to be tweaked when we went from 13 to 12 players; I don't know if anyone's roles got eliminated or if it was just dropping 1 VTownie and shuffling everyone else.

When is it in town's favor to lunch a mason to confirm the other one? obviously not right away? Ideally this role should have been hidden until the end of the game. I don't think much at all of Pooka's crumbs' they are too obscure for me. But he seems very solidly town. So, either he is a mason and is being dragged down (or propping up) his town-mason friend, OR they are both mafia and Frost is just not blending in as well as Pooka. Seems ODD Pooka would bus Scene into the grave UNLESS there are two mafia factions. We've seen that before, and that is, I think, more common in higher-player-count games. This possiblity throws Pooka's 577 into the trash.

We haven't had daychat in every recent game; lets assume we don't have it?

Vitek; you've claimed to protect "the big cat lover" I want confirmation that a) you meant catv, and B this was in fact Joe?

Hoshi Ga Matataku Konnayoruni by Supercell / Nagi Yanagi

Okay so, the night kill could have been skipped by the mafia purposefully. However this incredibly unlikely if Vitek is town as they have no idea who Vitek will protect and how that will effect the game. However Vitek could be scum trying to either make his scumbuddy(ies) look town or trying to make the lovers look scum.

The night kill could have been prevented by Dedo, however this is apparently unlikely, especially seeing as there is no announcement of such. If this is the case, it could definitely mess with us but should still be the least of our considerations.

The most obvious option is that Vitek successfully protected town!lovers. Now this raises the interesting question of why would scum nightkill the lovers? Their is a doctor, two masons and a unknown role claimed. There are some small reasons I can see for not nightkilling any of these, the masons are best if one is lynched then the other nightkilled immediately so there isn't a confirmed townie alive during the day, the doctor hinted at self protecting, and razza may be too obvious a target. Those aren't great reasons however so it's most likely they simply wanted to kill the lovers to make someone look good or bad. Also, Catv seems a very obscure target for a doctor.

On the topic of Vitek's target being odd, look at his response to Joe post #572 and ask yourself- How does protecting someone relate to getting confirmation? You'd only get "confirmation" if you successfully protect someone. Your goal should be successfully protecting someone, and a lover you may or may not think is town is a terrible target.
(Reference)https://www.gog.com/forum/general/gog_mafia_game_77_masters_of_the_universe_edition/post572

Am I missing something obvious here?

One of my favorite songs is Undeva în Balkani by Puya.

Huh?...

This does not make much sense. Out of the two of them, Cat is basically solid townie across the board, Joe being the enigma in the equation. Given that we don't know if the "relationship" goes both ways and Joe is being very cards close to the chest about it, we can only check alignment and the nature of the relationship through his lynch if we're talking about today alone.

Million dollar question. This will haunt us until we decide to check the matter further.

Same, fam. I feel.

Eye of the beholder. I tend to agree that checking Frost isn't necessarily the best option, but you'd be surprised how sus is my susradar when I focus on him. Alas, I am of view that we shouldn't disregard scum hunting in favor of checking game mechanics.

Or maybe you're just an especially good chameleon and put down an investment with a long-term view, while your partner is the opposite. Scum often vote for each other on D1 for various reasons to point back to their votes later in the game. Now, I still have you solid town. This is more as an FYI that the logic doesn't necessarily hold if we are to consider that we don't know anything for sure and the game is not played in a vacuum. The truth is that the masons will probably keep being controversial for as long as Frost is a big red dot on the scumdar.

Do whatever makes you feel comfortable. We will stand by the decision either way.

A very good point actually.

The modern world is full of broken humans.

Music taste.

Well, you can't just leave us like this now. Okay, you told us you got a PR and that you have a night action that involves other players and you obviously targeted Lift. What's your role then?

Isn't Cat also a she iirc?

This is actually a good catch. I had forgotten the description provided by Cat. If we are to put her at solid town, Joe, who is rather sus, is basically your equivalent in their tie-up.

Yup. Never mind! Back to square one. All that I said above still stands then.

No. They are not.

LMFAO

This is actually a really cool modifier.

I AM DEAD

There's absolutely no way for either Joe or myself to confirm each other's alignment directly. The role gives us no night actions at all. None. We get no night communication, and the PM doesn't explicitly state that both are town.

I originally said that we were both town due to a cultral difference as I knew the role pre-GOG as being town exclusive. I've since learned that here the role can be any combo that the person running the game feels like making it - Town/Town, Mafia/Town, Mafia/Mafia, Town/3rdParty, Mafia/3rdParty, 3rdParty/3rdParty. Although I thought I saw some indication that anything involving a 3rd Party is considered a bastard setup here, and Mafia/Mafia tends to be exceedinly rare as it's use isn't practical in a smaller setup.

The only way to definitively confirm our is to have someone with an alignment-checking role to check both of us or to kill us off. In this case, the call to lynch us shouldn't matter if 3 suspect me, 3 suspect Joe and the rest don't know what to think. That's still six that suspect us either way.

Another reason to lynch would be if the Lovers role itself is too much of a distraction in terms of alignment and causing too many people to not look elsewhere plus there's no strong lynch suspects. I would be in favor of being eliminated on Day 2 for this reason as everyone left would have no choice but to focus their attention elsewhere on Day 3.


Let's assume for a moment that the mafia did go after Joe/myself, Vitek is the Doctor, and and made a successful protect. Besides suggesting that Joe and I are both Town-aligned, the main reason to do it would be because the mafia thinks that the Doctor is going to be protecting someone else instead. It would not matter if we both were revealed to be town as we would be out of the game, plus it would leave the town wondering as to who would have it out so much for people without night actions to be taking us out during night one.

However saying that, it is also just as likely that the mafia targeted anyone still alive and not mafia, only to have the night kill be voided out by Dedo as you suggested.

Alternately, the mafia could have done as Catte suggested and voluntarily did not night kill on their own just to mess with everyone.

That's just wacky.


Since you actually asked, I will confirm that I am no man. If our thread gets invaded by Nazgûl, feel free to hide behind me since men can't deal with them. Razza can help too. I didn't make the rules. Blane Tolkien.

I don't really cared what pronounces people use and am far too lazy to correct people if they're using the wrong one.

(^..^)ﾉ

One of my favorite songs is Zeu by Spike

If it makes you feel better, I'm not feeling at all confident in your scumhunting abilities today either.

I've said it before, scum often vote for themselves early in the game when it's low risk to have something to point at later. It might be that scene was just very obviously scummy and a lynch might solidify a townie read from others. We're working on hunches here and benefits of doubt.

It just keeps getting worse, smh

Razza has only joined us last game and Joe introduced her as a younger coworker iirc. I think everyone is just jumping to conclusions now. It could very well be true that they are related. Or Joe might actually have told us the truth. Though the cover of "coworker" thus make sense for privacy reasons. Their writing styles are too divergent for there not to be a huge age gap between them. But then again, young people do work with very old colleagues nowadays. Especially in relatively fast aging countries like western ones.

And yet it happens.

He introduced her as a coworker and there is no reason anyone should believe otherwise or pry. I do find it funny how some people went down this rabbit hole just for shits and giggles though. Razza didn't even bother to deny and Joe is trolling.

People with such balls of steel should really become traders.

Weak list!

Nope

Call me Enola Gay, bby, becuz Imma bout to drop some bombs! BOOYAAA

You, troll

Hey. man, you speak a second language, right? We can upgrade you to an au pair.

Or a ninja.

Eh, you could be a ninja.

It's the name of the game, for sure.

Unless you're a ninja.

Next to California.

I had already mentioned that my Thursday was going to be full and keeping up will be unlikely. It's in the post.

I'd be surprised if any of them could accurately describe supposed normal behavior. Nonetheless, I don't think I'm playing with any vets besides Lift and it's been a hot minute (more like 3 years?).

My read has stayed the same. By the end of the day I wasn't willing to vote for him. I'm still pretty solid on that stance, at least for now.

While the questioning has merit, scum might decide to avoid targeting the doctor for dear of the role being watched.... unless they have a ninja. I mean, it's kind of an on-the-nose target for NK and for D1, chances of selecting the same player are pretty low. Technically low risk, low reward (unless they bank the lovers). The more interesting question here is why would scum target Cat over Joe since we don't know if their relationship mechanic is a two-way thing? Did Cat appear disproportionately more town in D1 than Joe? Were they afraid Joe would be watched?

Off to bed with me. Will post more tomorrow.

Ok, I did indeed miss the counter claim situation on D1. It would be a very daring play to sacrifice one team member on D1 in this way. So Vitek is likely Town.

That means my lynch pool for Today is reduced to:
Catte, Ambitionz and Micro

As discussed previously, I'd exclude the Masons and the lovers for Today. We have at least one investigator, if we believe Razza, which I decide to do (as discussed above). So we have a chance to solve the question of the Masons alignment without policy lynching one of them.

or a POISONER :O

Because mafia doesn't take place in US. (har, har, I am political, now we are going to get locked)

I was thinking about this yesterday. There are only 3 people, who are not connected to any claim or night action, catte, Ambition and Micro.
I don't find any of them cleared by their behaviour but out of them and out of all I find Micro to best candiddate for lynch. If I look at it from PoE POV, I can find some argument not to lynch anyone else in the game but him (even though for some those reasons are certainly stronger than for others). I can't find any for Micro and then there is his awkward RVS unvote of mafia scene, the fact he was the single one not voting at EoD and maybe little OMGUSy that he said I am very sus but sadly he can't suspect me because I am doc but wasn't able to provide examples of my scumminess when asked.


We can ask mafia, they are the only ones who know and can answer.
Usually the NK is posted in mafia thread but it is possible the one carrying it out can send PM to dedo and change it to whoever they want. Then, as was said, we have no reliable source to learn this.


Oh, shaddup. I don't know single song you are forced to list here you obscure weirdo. :-p


I agree with Pooka. We have been loitering around for long enough and the Day is getting shorter. Vote Microfish.

@Ambitionz: I was wondering, how would being a Ninja protect against a Gunsmith? A Ninja conceals movement, if I remember correctly. I.e. it would protect against Trackers, Watchers and other motion detector class PRs.

My guess is that ninja usually don't have gun but some cold weapon instead.

Not my intentions at all. I just wanted it dealt with now and not have it brought up Monday morning in the last hour to sow enough doubt that a no lynch occurs. If I make any similar posts, it will be before Monday and for similar reasons. Try to leave the mafia with nothing that can be used to cause a last minute no lynch. :)

----

That was exactly the point of the hypothetical setting! Remove myself from the equation and create a scenario where Frost doesn't have to defend himself to show how those posts can be perceived. There's nothing he needs to defend himself about here - just friendly advise for the future.

Even if you are on the mafia side, you don't want to make a post that could be perceived soliciting advise from a mafia teammate nor promote loosing strategies. :)

----

Nah. Guns are only political in the US. Since mafia doesn't take place in the US as you said, it's technically a non-issue.


Your game mod is using bastard rules and decided that ninjas are following the Stock Ninja Weaponry Trope so no guns.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StockNinjaWeaponry

Black Is The Colour by Gaelic Storm

Wouldn't a poisoner be used alongside the NK? If the scum team has a poisoner and no NK then it's pointless to have a doctor in this setup.

What point? She says I was trying to policy lynch lovers. I Was not, But when I tell them that they ignore me. She says scene unvoted me as soon as I six votes, (five actually) but it is quite obviously due to my claim. She says I was asking confirmed scum to out their buddies, when I was clearly noticing a potential slip and mentioning it to see what people thought of it. Also some nonsense about how me correcting razza post #567 equals me suggesting bastard elements.

The only valid reasons I can see to lynch me are: I Was the last to vote scene, and I was already scummy D1 apparently.

I Spent all day trying to correct them rather than scumhunt myself so I'm not even sure who I'd vote yet.

That wouldn't be bastard that would be normal.