Let me be more clear - I was comparing Frost versus myself. He's rather adamant that I should be lynched, on the basis of either 1) Lovers must be Mafia/Mafia or 2) Mafia is going to kill Lovers anyway. It has been HIS behavior (not mine) that has been suspicious on Day 1 and HIS behavior (not mine) on Day 2 that has been more suspicious.
1) You pointed out yourself that Joe is going to be a Day 2 problem for me because I'm not the one who looks suspicious.
2) Vitek commented that he had used his Doctor power on me during Night 1 and also said in post #528 that he couldn't imagine Scene and myself being buddies based on our Day 1 interactions.
3) Reclassifying me as suspicious and putting me at the top of the mafia list for Frost's benefit is only going to help Mafia when I am revealed to be Town Lover.
4) If Joe is Town Lover also, it is going to create problems for Frost and yourself by association on Day 3.
5) Even if Joe is revealed to be Mafia (and the game does not end - meaning Koba was Town), the actual mafia might exploit Frost's behavior to suggest that we have four mafia in the game where Frost and yourself and the remaining mafia. I would suggest spending some Night 2 time being prepared to address this and nip it in the butt fast on Day 3.
Also as I said previously - because I would put Joe at the upper end of the suspect list and will not survive him being lynched, I am throwing all my thoughts out there. I will go so far as to say that Joe is among the people that we should very seriously consider lynching today.
If the two of you really are Masons, Frost needs to shut the **** up, follow your lead, and stop acting like the most valuable player for team mafia. He needs to not make lists calling me the most scum player - especially when he says dumb crap like how Scene looked 90% Town to him, Lovers should be lynched because we're Mafia/Mafia, Lovers should be lynched because mafia will kill us anyway (meaning don't even try hunt for mafia, just lynch the town), and admits that he never thought the mafia he voted to lynch were actually mafia.
If I was a Mason paired off with Frost, I'd be pissed with him at this point. For this reason, I'm going to say that you have earned the right to smack Frost across the back of the head during your night 2 regardless of alignment - town or mafia. If you really are Masons, please smack him for me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCsGCpeoOJ0 (^._.^)ﾉ
He's said at least twice that Lovers should be lynched on the basis that the mafia will kill us anyway. This comes off as thinking that we should stop looking for mafia and instead lynch the town based on who we think the mafia will kill next. This is a pro-Mafia strategy and has the Town playing to loose. It also suggests that despite all his posturing that the Lovers must be Mafia/Mafia that he actually thinks we're Town/Town.
Assuming that all of these people are all town-aligned, Frost-logic would mean that these are the only people we should consider lynching today:
1) myself plus Joe - two town for the price of one
2) Vitek - doctor
3) Razza - unknown power role
4) Pooka - the smart Mason
No more talk of lynching based on who the mafia is going to kill. I am not saying please. We should only be lynching based on who is most likely to be mafia. I have said multiple times now that if Joe looks suspicious, lynch him. Don't worry about me. I will not spite vote anyone in the future regardless of the outcome. However I should not be lynched on the basis that Frost wants to do the mafia's work for them.
The fact that we are even having this debate at all in the first place is why the "Masons" look like they could be mafia posing as masons and not actually masons. We're wasting time discussing things that should not even be an issue - should we lynch people suspicious of being mafia or should we lynch town the mafia will kill anyway. While we are doing this, we are also not discussing who is most likely to be mafia.
Catventurer: I have no night actions, which makes me far more expendable than loosing someone with an investigation or protective role. If Joe is mafia, you're going to have to do it anyway at some point for the good of the Town.
Microfish_1: Do you still stand by this?
Yes. If Joe is mafia, he 100% needs to be lynched no matter what. It would mean that my role gave me immunity from the mafia taking any action against me. In order for the Town to win, I would need to be collateral damage. This is just a game. It's not like the actual mafia will roll up to my house to take me out if I'm taken out.
FrostburnPhoenix: When did Catv ever say he knows joe is town? (Also mason chat response, razza is a she BTW and most likely Joe's daughter)
PookaMustard: Emphasis mine:
Catventurer: Hello. I am town-aligned. My power role gives makes me the very special friend of another player in the game,
who is also town-aligned. I am not permitted to contact or talk to this person at night. However this type of knowledge always has it's price, and here's the price I have to pay for it:
PookaMustard: Razza most likely Joe's daughter? To quote Joe:
:o
(if true, didn't know joe was a dad!)
Don't forget, I did say that I played three games then switched to co-modding about ten years ago on what is now a non-existent book nerd site. The way I was familiar with the Lovers where both die is that they have night communication (like Masons) and know that both are Town. I had misread the role as a different role we had on that site called Unrequited Lover, which is a town role that has too much info about another Town role due to the lack of night communication. My private message here didn't actually say Joe was town. I just made the assumption based on what I knew previously.
Like with Koba, there are some cultural differences with me. However I come from an environment where games felt like a polite tea party during the day. This doesn't mean that there's no bickering. It does mean that you thank people if they answer your questions and apologize later if you're Town and campaign against another player that turns out to be Town, etc.
Lifthrasil: The Masons however are either both town or both very daring scum. But there is one possible way to find out. Masons typically don't move around during the Night. @Frostburn and Pooka: is that true in your case too? Or do you have any active powers on top of your Masonry? 
