The software ate my spaces.

Town:
Lift
DkKoba
Vitek
Middle:
Joe
Ambiti0n
razza
Micro
Scum:
Catv
Catte

Please give breadcrumbs and post numbers in which these claims happened? I want to read them for myself

I think you are deliberately not understanding me. Here is the ELI5 (explain it like I'm five) version:

Thanks to you, I really do not believe that there would be both Town/Town Lovers and Masons in the same game, which means that I think that one and only one of the following is true:

1) Lovers are Mafia/Town and Masons are real.

2) Lovers are Town/Town and "Masons" are really mafia.

The only way to resolve this is to lynch one Mason or both Lovers. The reason I say you and not Pooka is because if the two of you are actually Masons, it would be better for the town team to keep Pooka in the game and not the person that has been making the Masons look like mafia disguised as masons.


Likewise here's the ELI5 reason I suggested lynching you (Frost) and not Joe

If we lynch you (Frost) and:
- Masons are real, Town looses one person only.
- Masons are really mafia, Town looses nothing.

If we lynch Joe and:
- Joe is Mafia, Town looses one person only (me.)
- Joe is Town, Town looses two people - Joe and myself.


Facts You are either outright ignoring or trying to pretend are not real:

1) I spent a large portion of Day 1 campaigning that we lynch Scene.
I only reluctantly switched my vote to you after Az and Catte said that you getting lynched would help them more than lynching Scene because my suspect pool was Scene, Lift, ???? - which meant that both Catte and Az could not be mafia. Scene switched his vote off you, causing me to switch back to Scene while proclaiming that I was right about him all along.

2) You were the very last person to vote for scene and almost caused a no lynch while you dinked around voting for someone that most people were not even trying to have lynched Scene. Before that, we're you voting to lynch Vitek who had role claimed Doctor?

3) You also wasted time on Day 1 campaigning for what would be a policy lynch on the Lovers based on the fact that the mafia will night kill us anyway. You have said this multiple times we should be lynched because the mafia will kill us anyway. Even Lift (who was originally my #2 suspect) told you not to do the mafia's job for them - meaning if you think someone will be night killed, force the mafia waste their night kill doing it themselves. Lynching people because you think they will be night killed does not help the town.

For example - I really do think that if Vitek is town-aligned, role claiming Doctor will get him killed faster than Lovers. Based on Frost logic, I should be campaigning for everyone to vote for Vitek on the basis that the "mafia will night kill him anyway" and not who I think could actually be mafia. See how dumb that argument is?

If you think the mafia will kill someone, that also implies that you think the person has (or might have) a Town alignment. Mafia does not night kill mafia. Why have you been advocating to lynch people because the mafia will kill them and not on the basis of who could be mafia?

You were doing this as recently as post #492 (on Day 2) - "So what's wrong with lynching the lovers? They'll die at some point, and since we have a Doctor, lynching two town lovers is slightly favorable to lynching vanilla town. It'll give us two shots at lynching scum rather than one and neither lover looks very townie at all at least to me."

It's been said multiple times on Day 1 that Lovers is not a mafia/mafia role. I think I have more than proven myself based on Day 1 that I really am Town Lover. Joe's behavior had been iffy on Day 1 to the point that even I am questioning his some of his behavior.

You also know that mafia didn't get their night kill, which is just odd.


Another blatantly obvious thing:

Since I am putting Joe at the higher end of the suspect list and eliminating Joe also eliminates me, I am not holding back on any of my thoughts or speculations on anyone. If the remaining players decides that Joe really is the best lynch option because of his Day 1 behavior, I do not want to have held anything back.

My opinions are just that and based entirely on observations.


Don't forget that I spent the better part of Day 1 advocating that we lynch Scene and was acting generally annoyed at everyone that wasn't voting for Scene. Someone on the mafia side would not have tried so hard to lynch someone that turned out to be mafia.

Especially when you consider that the only reason I am #4 is because I switched off because Az and yourself both said that lynching Frost would give the two of you more info than lynching Scene.


My Suspect Pool
Joe + Lift
Frost + Pooka

Possible Town Group: Catte, Azzy, Razza, Vitek, and Microfish.
It takes six to lynch. If at least three of these people can agree on one person, that's who I am going with. If most of the town group wants to roll the dice on Joe being mafia, I will vote for him and take myself out.


Post 201 - Lift makes a comment about how he is trying to wagon Joe.
Post 202 - I accuse Lift of mafia and allude to a role reveal.
Post 208 - I state that I have a special friend in the game and that if I will die if you try to kill them. (I assumed that Joe was town-aligned as this is how I always encountered Lovers in the past.)
Post 221 - Joe says that he's my lover.
Post 236 - I confirm that share the lover role with Joe.

I had also originally mistaken Lover for another role called Unrequired Lover due to not having night communication with Joe.

I can confirm seeing Scene try to role-claim Doctor. He went so far as to tell Joe in the thread that he would use the Doctor ability to protect Joe overnight if he removed his vote so that Scene wouldn't get lynched. We all know that Scene was the Mafia JOAT and not the Town Doctor.


Okay, I'm a little too nauseous to be digging through anymore posts.

It's my read list. I Don't think it wise to take into account the possibility of a lying bastard mod.

#366-me #391&#394-Pooka #18-breadcrumb (lyrics)

#208&#236-Catv #221-Joe #44-breadcrumb (heart)

#116-razza

#241-DkKoba (also #86 i guess)

#430-Vitek

#395-scene

Town-town lovers and masons together are completely possible. I Agree I am a much better lynch than Pooka.

I Suppose my perspective and your perspective are different as you would be confirmed townie to yourself.

1) You also spent about as much time on me.

2) I Did not almost cause no-lynch.

3) I Was not campaigning for a policy lynch, I was arguing that you being lovers is NOT a reason to NOT lynch you.

It's quite obvious no one died.

Town-town lovers and masons together are completely possible. I Agree I am a much better lynch than Pooka.

I Suppose my perspective and your perspective are different as you would be confirmed townie to yourself.

1) You also spent about as much time on me.

2) I Did not almost cause no-lynch.

3) I Was not campaigning for a policy lynch, I was arguing that you being lovers is NOT a reason to NOT lynch you.

It's quite obvious no one died.

My first thought is that someone with a protective role, such as Doctor, correctly guessed who the mafia was going to target and prevented the night kill. You're the one who said that Dedo canceled the mafia's night kill.

You've been constantly arguing to do the mafia's job for them - either lynch Lovers even though we're probably Town/Town because the mafia will kill us anyway..... or using Scene's logic that Lovers has to be Mafia/Mafia, Mafia/3rdParty, or anything else that doesn't involve Town.

I've been consistent in that if I think the Town thinks Joe is Mafia, I will take one for the team and vote to lynch Joe. However because of your Day 2 behavior specifically, it needs to come from someone not on my original suspect list Joe + Lift or additional suspect list Pooka + You.

Stop trying to twist facts. It's stuff like this that makes me suspicious of people.

Also the only person making you and Pooka look like possible mafia is you, which is entirely the reason I would be up for voting for you as an alternative to either Lift or Joe. I am not in favor of lynching Pooka to test the masons.

Also if your name is Frost, the only thing potentially in your favor is post #342. Your ally (Pooka) also didn't budge from Scene once, even if you were voting for Vitek before anyone else and constantly using faulty logic.
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/gog_mafia_game_77_masters_of_the_universe_edition/post342


I'm standing by what I said previously:

Possible Town Group: Catte, Azzy, Razza, Vitek, and Microfish.
It takes six to lynch. If at least three of these people can agree on one person, that's who I am going with. If most of the town group wants to roll the dice on Joe being mafia, I will vote for him and take myself out.

I am going to add that if at least three want to test the masons instead, we should vote for Frost and keep Pooka in the game. If they would rather go with Lift or someone among themselves, that's how I'll vote.

This means that anyone debating with me is wasting their time. I'm not who you need to convince.

One of my favorite songs is In the End by Linkin Park

I am not quite certain I follow the logic here. It's a case-by-case situation, but unless we run through comprehensive scenarios, I am of view we shouldn't throw around with such categorical qualifiers and statements. Nonetheless, we should be concerned with scum hunting, not clearing the "fodder".

It will give us just one shot at lynching scum hypothetically. A clearer consensus on possibilities and risk appetite has to be established.

Alas, scene was 90% town to you. Not that previous performance is an indicator of future one, but I fail to see how we're using the lessons of the past for better decisions going forward here.

I wouldn't call it a culture clash as much as an unfortunate limitation on our part. It is what it is though. When in Rome, do as the Romans. Listen, I am all for cutting slack to people, but the rules are out there for all to see. First there were repeated double-posts, even after the warning, then there were repeated breaches of the Yog rule. Cut them some slack? Sure. Maybe for the first, let's say second post. But by the third, which came well after their warning, which they had time to read in dedo's vote counts, it's already getting ridiculous. It just kind of showcased a lack of respect for the community.

And while this is unfortunate, I wouldn't really sing about like it's all gloom and doom. We still get new players periodically. Some old timers return. Intermediately old ones, such as myself, also make comebacks. Take Catventurer and Frostburn as examples of new people. It's really about the games staying interesting and us making adequate commitments to them and to the game culture we want to promote.

Bingo! Good thinking, Cat. We will find out one way or another. It's just a delay.

Sir, you've been so AFK that I have no reliable read on you at all, to the point I am entertaining the idea of putting up a case for a policy lynch for you because there is nothing to go on about you later in the game. It doesn't help that you're pretty much a tabula rasa as well.

Correct. Assuming we don't have better options and projections regarding other people. The suggestion is enticing if not for Joe alone, then to also make sure we get the distraction caused by the role away.

You have an eye for detail.

The million dollar question. Depending on the result, we might have an idea if the action went through and did something or something else entirely happened.

There is merit to this proposition as well, but Pooka looks too solidly town for this to be true. If we are to trust Pooka's mason claim, then Frost is confirmed town.

This being said, maybe it's just the most outrageous and daring scum play in the history of GOG Mafia that I know. Who knows, right? Only the mod, scene and whoever else is mafioso.

Anyway. As far as I am concerned, Pooka and Catte are off the menu for me today, barring new information that provides grounding for their ill intents. This is not to say Frost is up there with them. Given that masons are not tied to each other and neither are mafia, depending on Frost's flip Pooka would be 100% confirmed town or scum.

Oh, my, what a horrible list.... And you wonder why I don't trust your reads.


P.S. I shall run some scenarios tomorrow or on Friday and return with some more analysis then. I got a big day tomorrow, peppered with a full work day, volunteering event and a baseball game after. I will try to stay up to date and active on my phone if possible.

Oh, I am alive. Curious.

It would be very bastard of dedo to ask me for night action only to have actionless Night, so I am going to presume I actually made sucessful protection. I got no confirmation of my action being carried out, though.

I protected the one, who was confirmed town for me, the big cat lover. There was no way they are mafia together with scene, with how scene
went after them the whole Day. If they were indeed targeted it makes Joe not-mafia as well, I suppose.

Am bit busy right now, so this is just quick one in passing.

Thank you all. So, I am honestly shocked by how many roles turned up.

Frost & Pooka are either both scum or both town. I'm inclined to say "both town"

Thank you (especially Frost) for the list of claims. I'd been intermittently watching the thread but was too busy to do much. (Today it took my aunt's blood oxygen 1.5 hours to fall to here she needed to get back on oxygen!) I was afk nearly all weekend this week, got on literally 20 minutes after the EoD1, and was very very busy and out of Town today. This means a total of 4 players haven't claimed a PR???
Is this RM?
I mean, wow. I wouldn't be surprised.

Frost looks town (aside from his claim) to me right now?
I hate to say it but lunching the lovers might be our best bet so far.
Why Lift? Does he get a pass for IRL?

Query: is it possible to have lovers where one dies but the other doesn't?

I find it interesting Joe didn't confirm his death based on Catv's lunch. IF Joe doesn't die when Catv does (and Catv tells the truth), but the reverse is true, then it behooves us to lunch catv & find out if Joe dies. Reason--If Joe (scum or town) dies we lose town!Cat. if town!cat dies and town!joe doesn't, we win. It really doesn't matter whom we lunch of that group--unless it is a 1-way die.

catching up, Vitek looked sus until that CC that led to hitting scum, so he has to be town, no matter how sus he looks.
UNLESS. Vitek was distancing/bussing. Will keep this in mind.

I DON'T see Catte as being town. Off the top of my head I'd think Catte, Razza or Catv (or Joe?*) are the mafia teammates of Scene.
(*Guilt by association, not by guilty behavior?) Would vote any of them. Joe would be a more informative flip than Catv, I think.

I won't vote Lift while he's in the hospital toDay, unless something major changes.

vote catte
Most of his posts are about mechanics of the game, not about game solving.

Do you still stand by this?

So--the above post--i was writing it as I read the thread, reading back from this page 11 towards one. My reads changed several times as I read these pages. I'm operating on 3-4 hrs sleep and get up in about 3 hrs. I forgot to read what I'd written to see if it made sense.

I know i said i thought the louvers would be the best, but then as i read things, I think catte was worse.
I could vote for Joe or Catv, but I'm not convinced they are necessarily "1 town / 1 scum." i think lunching one of them (still can't decide which is scummier) look like our 2nd best option rn to maximize infomartion. Even if both flip at once it is worth it if one flips scum. but i think Catte is worse than either of the so-called lovers.
I had more thoughts but they got lost in the swamp of my very tired brain.
be it known that my posts tend to be "real-time reactions" as i catch up, not lengthy plotted dissertations.

There's a LOT wrong to lynch a player that looks scummy but has a role that leans Town. We're essentially giving up scumhunting and going "okay, we'll test the masons" or "okay, we'll test the lovers." With this logic, Mafia have no reason to try twisting facts and lying to get someone else, because Town will just auto-destruct itself.

I reread some of the more prominent posts of this game and found no indication that modkills cancel out the night actions. In fact dedo repeatedly stated the modkill would have no affect to any of the game's mechanics. (Except for black holing the flip, convenient but it was immediately obvious at least.)


Catventurer I think is floating the idea that we lynch Frost and if he flips Town, then I'm Town, and vice versa. But why even do that? I think my actions through D1 speak for myself and Frost louder than anything both of us could write.

Don't forget that I've put down and essentially started the scene wagon for real. I was the first vote on his wagon, and it was my only vote of the day ever. I was also equally campaigning others to switch to Scene, if not more than you. Now let me say this because it's kind of getting ridiculous already.

You can't suspect Frost without suspecting me by extension.

Okay? We claimed Town Masons. Unlike the Lovers combo, I know both of us are Town. So if you are suspecting Frost, you also have to suspect me at the same time. If Frost is leaning scum, I lean scum too. It doesn't make sense to make comments like "the only person making you and Pooka look like possible mafia is you" and "I am not in favor of lynching Pooka to test the masons," because if Frost is acting scummy, then I would be scummy too. You can't have it both ways, you can't go "Frost is scum but Pooka looks really towny right now," it's either "Frost is scum so that means I need to scumread Pooka" or "Pooka is town so Frost is probably not as scum as I like to see him" or any variations thereof.

Try reading us in that light instead. I don't want you or any others to see me as the only Towny one in a pair of Town - it's either both of us are Town, or both of us are scum. Frost and I don't necessarily agree with each other nor have the same ideas about how to play Mafia, but I won't let someone I know is Town get lynched while scum laugh all the way to the bank. (and the people in observer too). That's also why I won't vote for Vitek, for obvious counter-claim that sealed the coffin on scene.

So yeah, enough of that "Frost drags Pooka down" stuff. Either we're partners in crime, or actually Town masons. Please read us in either of those lights.

Question to all: I notice that I don't really manage to keep up with everything that is written here. Much less, catch up with what was written Yesterday. I don't manage more than skimming via mobile. This means, I can't really analyse systematically which in turn means, I'm not that useful to Town as someone at full capacity would be. Should I ask for a sub, or should I continue to contribute what I can, even if that's less than usual?

One contribution attempt:
I still guess that one of the lover pair is scum. But not sure yet which. A Town-Town lover pair would be very negativ utility and hard to balance. Scum Scum even more so. So, in such ac small game, I believe a mixed lover pair the most likely.

The Masons however are either both town or both very daring scum. But there is one possible way to find out. Masons typically don't move around during the Night. @Frostburn and Pooka: is that true in your case too? Or do you have any active powers on top of your Masonry?
No, I'm not role fishing. You already claimed. But just in case we have some Watcher/Tracker roles it would be helpful for them to know whether seeing you move would be a scum tell.