You do realize that you're making yourself look like mafia by saying that:

1) I was the person doing most of the campaigning against Scene, who turned out to be mafia.

2) You sound like Scene insisting that the lovers role has to be something that doesn't involve town - either mafia/mafia or 3rdparty/mafia.

3) Since I was 100% convinced that mafia team was Scene, Lift and someone else - I was willing to let Catte and Azzy have their test lynch of you only because I was convinced that even if Catte or Azzy were mafia, they both could not be mafia thus someone on the town side would gain helpful information.

I'm inclined to lynch Lift more than anyone else at the moment but if you keep pursuing the "neither lovers is town," then you will be getting all 100% of my attention that I would rather be focusing on 1) Lift and 2) Joe in that order.


Actually I have considered the idea since Day 1 that Mafia Team was one of the following:
- Scene, DK, someone else.
- Scene, Lift, Joe.

When I post again, I will make a case against both Lift and Joe at the same time. This is just being practical because in case Joe looks like the better option, I won't be around to share my suspicions against Lift on Day 3. I have to do it at the same time.

Unfortunately, my irritable bowel has been acting up hardcore today, so I'll need some patience. I will get this done with the utmost urgency and not let it drag out. It's currently a little after 2pm here in California.

Okay, let's lynch Joe. In this hypothetical scenario, some events could happen:

- Joe flips Town, Catventurer Mafia. Win for us.
- Catventurer flips Town, Joe Mafia. Win for us.
- Catventurer flips Mafia, Joe Mafia. Victory for us but extremely unlikely.
- Catventurer flips Town, Joe Town. Lose for us.

This is assuming the whole lovers thing is true and the other dies if one is killed. Interestingly, Joe never mentioned if he'd die should Catventurer die too. Still, the reason why I'm reluctant to lynch the lovers is the probability of them being Town-Town is not unlikely, so if off them, we lose two Town. And Mafia gets one more at night. We'd be in a severe disadvantage most probably.

Interesting. Are you completely certain that's what happened and it wasn't a lucky doc hit or something else?

I have mixed feelings on how the whole thing went down but I'll save them for the end.

Well of course, but until that point we don't have the key that would help us interpret their posts and lunch choices.

I'm afk all day today and much of tomorrow

Okay, but there's nothing wrong with lynching them if one or more looks scummy, correct? During D1 it seemed people were hesitant to lynch lovers even if they were scummy.

No, I was watching the game before the game I joined and I believe Hyper was modkilled disabling night actions that night. But there wasn't such an announcement so it probably was a successful doctor like you said. Nevermind.

Query: I'm watching this thread in between my IRL, but got lost and confused. vitek claimed doc which is how we got Scene.
Someone else said Mason, and someone else said lovers. Are they talking about the same person/people?

I've been afk so much would someone please do a recap for me of who (other than Vitek's doctor) is claiming what?

Thank you. I feel lost right now.

Interesting. That is indeed a thing that happened.

It occurred to me that the reason you might have seemed so sure was that you (and Pooka, I guess) were in fact mafia and had been informed that you couldn't make a kill. But as you say, there is precedent so it's not an unreasonable assumption to make. If you are scum and it was a slip, that was well covered.

My gut is just a mass of pain and making me really nauseous at the moment. I'll have to just give my thoughts and not going to go digging up posts like I normally would do.

TL;DR - Primary Suspect Pool:
Lifthrasil
JoeSapphire (with me as an additional casualty)

Alternately, Frost and Pooka are mafia posing as masons.


I'm inclined to believe that you and Frost really are Masons and not mafia posing as masons because the alternative is that the mafia team is Scene, Pooka, Frost, Lift and Joe. That's far too much mafia for a 12-person game. This also means that you really need to tell Frost that he should let you do all the talking and follow your lead.


Now the presence of masons is one of the biggest things that has me wondering if Joe and I are a Mafia (Joe) and Town (me) pairing. Masons know for a fact that each mason is town-aligned and can talk to each other at night. In comparison, lovers with no alignment confirmation and no night communication are extremely weak should both be Town-aligned. Even two Vanilla Town are better than lovers in this situation.

However if the Lovers are Mafia/Town, this is an extremely powerful role for the Town lover (me) if killing me also kills a mafia member. It means that the mafia will never night kill me no matter what anyone says. It also means that no matter how much a mafia member postures about lynching either Joe or myself, they will mysteriously get cold feet and never follow through with it. This would mean that my role gives me complete immunity from the mafia, and I am willing to take one for Team Town by voting for Joe if enough of you think that he's mafia.



As for Joe himself, his Day 1 behavior was very much all over the place. It really did feel like he was deliberately suspecting and voting for people that were on nobody's suspect list. If you still doubt me, consider that there was a point in Day 1 where I kept campaigning for us to lynch Scene and kept calling him a liar - not something that mafia would likely do to each other.

One thing that I can tell you as a Town-aligned lover is that I have no night actions at all. None. If Joe and I are Mafia/Town, then you only lose the equivalent of a Vanilla Townie that the mafia could never target.



I've also wondered a bit in hindsight if Lift's comment to me that his prime target was Joe was because both were mafia, and he was hoping that I'd reveal my role. If you look at the achieved mafia chats, they know who all mafia are and their roles on Day 1:
https://whyquicktopicwhy.proboards.com/board/21/archived-mafia-chats

If both Lift and Joe are mafia, getting Joe's lover partner to reveal their role is going to ensure that the town doesn't vote to lynch either lover on day one thus gives Joe some level of protection. The fact that we're still alive on day two makes sense even if we're Town/Town due to the fact that the mafia is likely to go after someone else on night one in hopes of eliminating a power role.

On day 2, town might still be reluctant to eliminate the Lovers (due to the fact that at least one is going to be town).... thus Joe continues to have some level of protection against the town through me.

It should be noticed that Lift's reasoning for wanting to wagon Joe was entirely because Joe was willing to give DkKoba the benefit of the doubt that a lot of Dk's behavior could be explained by cultural difference. Lift, himself, was doing the same thing - wanting to give Dk the benefit of the doubt based on cultural differences... but the fact that he was acting suspicious of someone else doing the same thing just looked bizarre.

Actually, I think we need to lynch Joe next even though it will take me out too just to find out if the Lovers are Mafia/Town or Town/Town.

If Joe and I are Town/Town, then I my best guess is that the mafia team are Frost and Pooka.

I too have been entertaining that possibility since yesterday. If Frost and Scene were both mafia it would explain the push towards Vitek by... guess who?

Me!

Are you ok with telling us who used your action on?

Actually. Amend what I last said. Lynching Frost would be far better than Joe because it will be less risky for the town. Lynching Joe means loosing one Town no matter what, either Mafia/Town or Town/Town.

If Frost is Mafia, we know to take Pooka out on Day 3.

If Frost is Town, he's been a detriment to the Mason group and making Pooka look guilty by association.

One mason is not worth two vanillas, no. But one mason is worth more than two same-side lovers, who are basically one head. I Am indeed a detriment to Pooka, as by the end of D1 I realized I had challenged or voted I believe everyone except Pooka and Ambiti0nZ, and Ambiti0nZ challenged me at the end of the day so if I flipped it would be obvious who my partner was.

Now I could almost see a rationale for not lynching lovers in that it's not as big a win for town but that doesn't make sense either as you'll have to lynch them eventually if they are scum.

The way Catv seemed willing to sacrifice himself seemed townie but the way he immediately changed his mind makes it look like he just wanted to look townie.

Anyways my current reads. (Although these may well change by my next post.)
Town:
Lift
DkKoba
Vitek
Middle:
Joe
Ambiti0n
razza
Micro
Scum:
Catv
Catte