It's pretty much how Lift does it. He's usually extremely helpful and thorough when it comes to giving initial tips and hints to new players who haven't found their bearings regardless of his alignment. I'd say he's a welcoming chap who actively wants to help get people on track for the sake of the game and the community as a whole. If this helps him pocket them before smothering them in their sleep - more power to him.

TL;DR: I'd say this particular bit is NAI (Not Alignment Indicative) for him.


Yes and yes. The ye olde LAMIST (Look At Me, I'm So Town because I'm signaling unawareness of something that is usually considered scum-specific information, made even better by taking a calculated risk of looking like you didn't read the rules for added realism) look. It's such a cheap trick that it pops up every now and again but it seems people mostly get paranoid about it / use it to point fingers rather than scum actually relying on it to gain Town credit.

TL;DR: Unreliable metric but it doesn't hurt to keep it at the back of one's mind for future reference.


Which version is "this" version?

Again (I don't feel I convey this well), my issue is not that he helps someone regardless of alignment. It's that the help was in the form of "[you-as-a-townie] do this" and "[you-as-a-townie] do that", with no phrase evoking the possibility of not being town. No conditional phrase like "if your role is town then". Not even an explicit "you as a townie", actually. As if Lifth knew that the relevant info, for that player, would be the info pertaining to "what is 'forum mafia' when you are given a townie role".

It's a phrasing detail. Or a content detail. It's not the fact of taking the time to help, or of being thorough. It's actually a (suspiciously, in my eyes) missing element of the thorough helpfulness. Csanjuro asked "what do we do that", and if Csanjuro was scum, maybe he'd still be "okay but if we're not town, then how do we do that".

That being said I had an impression of town-ness from Csanjuro (maybe the phrasing of "how do we do that", asked to the acting-town crowd), which I didn't spontaneously distance from. And especially (segue to lamist territory there) as there's a mafia chat, and that's where he'd be asking the question, barring some specific level of deviousness. But if Lifth's post's content was based on that, he could have mentioned the town read and its rationale. (As I do now, saying I feel Csanjuro leans town because of his question.)

Also, for what it's worth, I hadn't noticed the daychat rule until Frost's comment (see, my own lamist there). So my townie impression about Csanjuro increased just a couple of posts ago. And it also helps me believe that Frost could have overlooked that info as well.

Also, that's what I meant with failing to process the 'feel' of Frost's sentence. I don't think he's a person who would deliberately botch a joke or a smartass remark for townie points, even if he could use a throwaway remark to sound townie. So, when I said "realistically", I meant this : was his statement, the way he introduced his ignorance, the kind of way he'd pass the information (a simple pretend "oopsie") or the kind of way he probably wouldn't pass this information (a botched wisecrack).

(Also I had first interpreted his comment as a humongous, game-breaking slip, like "Pooka said there's a daychat but still didn't *actually* give us the link". I was feeling so proud to have voted for him, for a moment. I wonder if others have interpreted his phrase the same way, even if briefly.)

Attempt to garner a derpclear? Or genuine derpclear? Hmm.

It's 10 minutes, we've tested it pretty extensively by this point.

Yes.

No I'm saying a scum tutorial via daychat would likely be better.

Neither?

What are you suggesting?

The way I see it, either:
you genuinely didn't know the scum had daychat because you didn't read the OP properly and aren't scum -> derpclear
OR
you pretended not to know as only a townie wouldn't know and you are in fact scum -> attempted derpclear

What alternative are you suggesting? That you pretended not to know as a townie? That you genuinely didn't know as scum?

Umm... this is irrelevant to the pointing of fingers, but -- is there any idea how many mafia there are?
2? 3? Heavens forbid 4!? Or unknown?

Nah. Just with the assumption that Csanjuro is a new player. And about your question further down: it's sufficient to give a tutorial for Town players. A scum player would a) have to pretend to be Town anyhow and b) not need any tutorial. At least not from me. I leave the scum specific tutoring to scum themselves in their chat. Or as others have pointed out: rules and game mechanics questions are faction independent. I probably would have written the same if I were scum and probably have writtin similar advice to new players in past games even, independent of whether I was scum or town. Helping a new player is just common decency.


You're right about the 'sudden realization' part. Formerly, I had thought that Frost took criticized Joe 'attacking' a player who couldn't fight back. Then Frost clarified, that it was about the dead interaction and I went 'Oh, well, THAT actually makes sense.' And then, because it was a sensible argument, I thought about it, but came to the realization, that I don't share the suspicion of an INTENTIONAL dead interaction. Does that clarify my path of thoughts?


So you didn't read the rules before dedo prompted you to read them?

Okay I've caught up. The main scum sniffing seemed to be about Frostburn joking about being Mafia. Some players are going to be more jokey than others. I see it as a coping mechanism. Does Frostburn claim Mafia as Mafia, maybe but probably not. I think he's more likely to do so as Town. Frostburn Lean Town Aligned

Lift saying we should lynch all liars seems a bit over simplistic if someone is joking. Shouldn't we lynch the most Scummy player? Lift Slight Lean Scum aligned

Catventurer. Pretty helpful giving detailed information about Frostburn's perhaps eratic play style. This helps Town better understand and read players. Lean Town

Dedo - like myself and Cat does not see Frostburn's behaviour as necessarily suspicious - neutral alignment. Too little to go on, which isn't a great look

Booktoothgamer - most of his or her chat has been discussing game dynamics rather than try to discuss who might be Scum. I know it's early but they haven't given an opinion on the violence happening. Is this person trying to appear helpful while not having any firm stances from the people of the game. IE merely attempting to see busy Lean Scum

I don't think it matters if Frostburn was joking or if he voted on Joe because Joe picked someone who's absent. It's too little info to extrapolate anything scummy from it. Therefore making a big issue of it doesn't seem entirely Town. In turn you had little else to go on, so perhaps I'm violating my own rule of analysis there. But I do think you quite firmly were perhaps overly aggressive on wanting to start a wagon on

On the other hand you probably have shared the most analysis of anyone in the thread and I do like this.

I Genuinely didn't know, but I don't think this a reason to clear me is all.

Four is too many, but unknown.

I Read some of them but skipped the rest because they looked the same as normal. Reading it more now I noticed bastard elements aren't forbidden this game, is that right? Should I assume there probably aren't any anyways?

Exactly. And on D1, if you have one player who lied, you have found your most scummy player. We don't have much leads on D1, but someone using that age old 'me baka watcher of Kalunga' joke is either Scum (like for example Yogs was, when he made a joke-scum claim) or playing against their own team. Maybe you want to check what I wrote in the last 50 games or so about this topic? If we ever had played a game of Mafia together, you might know my stance on the 'Lynch all liars' principle. ... Oh wait, we have played together before! And I'm sure that we two discussed about this very topic before.

As Town, I am genuinely annoyed by such jokes. In the cases where I was scum, I of course was happy when a Townie made such a joke. Because it binds attention and discussion and allows Scum to coast by unnoticed. But of course even when I was Scum I pretended to hate this kind of joke, because everthing else would be a deviation from my Town-MO.

But basically this reinforces my point. Something that hampers Town and that Scum is happy about is something that Town players should avoid doing.

Except you're the only one binding attention to it.

PookaMustard are there bastard elements?

[Ooh, 23h ago you made a scare that you might leave, but now you post such a detailed analysis! Good to hear your knee is getting better! =]

[First corona, then a black widow now this... you should go look for a lucky four-leaf clover in the meadows.]

I saw you write lynch all liars in the past game we played when you were Town but don't remember it previously, not that's me saying you didn't do it, I just do no remember it. But lynching someone who you believe is lying about being Mafia is surely against the principle of solving the game. You're essentially lynching them because their Town because they broke your rules of social discourse. I'd say that's anti town regardless of alignment.

Now the crux of the matter is if you think Frostburn is Mafia, claiming Mafia so we assume he isn't Mafia. Or if you think he is joking about it as Liberal. Perhaps he is someone who uses jokes as deflicting social difficulties. Should he be lynched for this? I don't think so if you think the latter over the former. But perhaps my read is off base