I read this just as a veteran player giving tips to a new player(at the new players hinted request). Explaining the game through the town perspective gives a good enough tutorial of the game without raising uneeded suspicion for both Lift and Csanjuro, plus the odds of Csanjuro being town are simply higher than them being mafia.

*looks to make sure ZFR is not around*

Yes.

1. Why not.

2. I Don't think enter wackyville until #68.

3. Arguable.

4. I Was eager to move out of RVS for this reason, but thought it might have been too fast compared to other games. But if you insist-

Unvote

I'm rather maladapted right now, sorry.

I Would almost consider this a better tutorial if Pooka actually gave the mafia daychat.

So you dont have day chat this time?



But in reality, Lift has been known to be willing to guide new players along out in the open no matter which team he's on. It would be a glorious strategy for sure if they had the chat to plan it out, but helping out new players to me is very much NAI especially for Lift.

So, my issue can be solved easily. Does Lift usually do it by addressing people as if they were strictly town, or does he usually use an explicit hypothetical form ("so, provided you are own..."), or does he even guide potential mafia new players ("and if you're mafia you should try to") ?

People who've seen him help new players in other games are in position to say whether my impression that he already knows Csanjuro's affiliation is justified or wrong.

(Actually I don't even know how much we're allowed to check a player's posts from older threads, in a mafia game, of if it's considered too meta-gamey.)


Uh what ?

Right, but your post seemed to show a sudden realisation about the validity of Frostburn's point which also made it valid for you rather than "I get what you mean and why you might make something out of it so I'm going to allow it but I don't think that's the case". Does this make sense to anyone else but me?


The same goes for everyone else making this a moot point, no?


@Frostburn, have you made yourself familiar with the rules for this game?

you can see if others chime is as well so all the info isn't coming from one person, but typically I have seen him offer guidance from the perspective that the new player is town.

I mean think about it as well:

if the new player is mafia and lift is town: even if Lift has a hunch that player is mafia, hes not going to offer best practices to the enemy.

if new is town and lift is mafia: can get townie points by helping new player and if hes savvy he could hint the player to look for clues that differ from his current strategy

both are mafia: like frostburn was getting at, if mafia have a daychat they could plan out this interaction in advance to try and build town credibility together.



explaining the game from the mafia perspective has no real benefit to the new player, and it would just bring on unwanted interrogation whether its warranted or not.

I Don't think that is a problem in the least.

Ok, they do have daychat. Thank you.

That's not what I was getting at.

It's less about "best practices" and winning strategies than about "how the game gets played" to someone who's a bit new and baffled. And it's even less about that than about phrasing (just mentioning "if you're town"). Check for instance Joe's post 25. Doesn't really give tools to mafia but is symmetrically informative. Actually Dedo's post 23 is asymetrical (only makes sense if Csanjuro is town) but didn't bother me because it's minimalist and superficial compared to Lifth's thorough and thought-out description. Doesn't have to be symmetrical (especially in terms of hints, helps and tricks), but the absolute absence of mention of the possibility of mafia role, in that lengthy post, felt off. Again, even within a very short post, Joe displayed this uncertainty (honestly or not).

So I could very well imagine Lifth's help being phrased differently in previous games. A difference would be interesting. And none aswell. Maybe it's just how he does it.

But also, ideally, I would have enjoyed him answering first. Because if it was actually some sort of mafia slip, well, his first spontaneous response could have added to it. Now his work would already be chewed for him...

~35 minutes since my last post. Let's hope it suffices. :-/

I dread this forum's engine.

Say, I may be lacking context. Could you please clarify, I mean, like, really really spell out what you intended to say with this sentence ? For instance : "actually". "Actually" in contrast to what ?

Ahh the repercussions of making assumptions. Would you care to explain what you did mean?

This is not my issue. My issue is about how Lifth's post 47 gave me the impression that he addressed Csanjuro as if he saw him as a certified townie, and not as if he was a possibly town possibly mafia player. And the question has become : does Lifth always presents his help to newcomers the same way, or is this a slip, telling of some implicit knowledge that he had. And the answer is certainly in his history of helping newcomers (does he always skip the "if you're townie / unless you're mafia" bit when he makes such presentations to new players, even when he doesn't know their alignment, or is it an exceptional, accidental omission ?).

The answer to this question is known to those who play with him often, and is present in the previous mafia threads (but searching them might be terribly tedious, unless one of you have examples in mind that they can easily find).

Only takes 11.

Pooka said in signup that it most likely have daychat but made a point of the fact they could change their mind.

I Meant that a tutorial over daychat could be better.

A bit tired (yeah it's past 5 AM here and i'm still frantically multitasking, this will be a tough week), and trying to get a 'feel' of that Frostburn sentence ("I Would almost consider this a better tutorial if Pooka actually gave the mafia daychat."). I mean : could he realistically have written this while being aware that there is a mafia daychat but unaware that it was common knowledge because of the game rules post ? Or something ? Could it be a deliberately misleading phrase to make us believe he was unaware of the daychat ?

Because if not, it would mean that he's town and this would have a nasty domino effect on my current suspicions and glorious theories (which are largely based on how scummy I find that whole 'dead interaction' accusation about a random vote).

For the time being I unvote FrostburnPhoenix and possibly get some sleep maybe who knows stranger things have happened.

Schedule warning. I've posted a lot. The week will start, I'll barely check the internet in the mornings, I won't check gog at all during the afternoons, I'll be catching up and posting in the evenings. So not the same pace. But still, probably daily.

Time is getting weird.

I'm not used to this version of Frosty and can't tell what you're saying....

Are you saying that team mafia does have daychat, but you would have preferred a tutorial?

---------------------------------------

I'm sorry that I wasn't clear.

My impression is that the portion of post #47 where Lifthrasil is replying to Csanjuro is 100% alignment neutral. Lift could be town or mafia. Csanjuro could be town or mafia. I really do believe that Lift (or anyone else) answering a newbie question would respond the same with no regards to their own alignment and without worrying about a newbie's alignment. The goal is to help the person adapt to how mafia is played here. I probably should disclose that I do have a habit of taking all answers to newbie questions at face value as I see no value of being deceptive in these situations. 1) It doesn't help anyone. 2) Everyone in the thread can see what everyone else posts.

Also in regards to Lift specifically, he was actually the game moderator for my first game here. This is also technically only my fourth game on this site. I couldn't tell you if there's any deviation from past posts. :)


My first game on this website was the LucasArts game, which had Lift as the moderator. My username at the time was Lord Cephy, so any references to Cephy or Cthulhu in that thread is me. Frosty and Babark were the other new players. Unfortunately, I had to pull out towards the end of the first day due to a kitchen fire. (NOTE: I'm still pretty bad with acronyms.)
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/gog_mafia_76_trouble_in_the_lucas_arts_multiverse/page1

DkKoba1 was technically a new player for this site in the Masters of the Universe game (which had Dedoporn as the moderator), but they were extremely experienced from another website. Ultimately Dk either couldn't or wouldn't adapt to this site's culture which only resulted in conflict. This is would also be another reason why I would say that if you see someone answering a new player's question, it can be treated as alignment neutral. Nobody really wants to see situations like this occur.
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/gog_mafia_game_77_masters_of_the_universe_edition/page1



Sorry for the late reply - I really wasn't expecting anyone besides myself to be online past a certain point.