he'd been hammered by the time i turned up?

Dedoporn --
Since Monday night was that yuck holiday full of spiders, I don't expect anyone returning home that day to be coming online either that day or the day after (which would be today.) I'm just looking at things from the point of view that if this was December where I said that I'm not going to be posting on the 24th or the 25th, I would be dealing with post-Christmas stuff where I might not make it online on the 26th.

Catte -
I think this will be the third time that I say that I find him to be a bit lurky. The fact that he missed the beginning of Day 2 doesn't seem totally out of character considering that his missed voting at the end of Day 1 in another game.

Joe -
Is he okay?

Csan -
I'm not sure what to think.


Also with Halloween over, today is the beginning of Christmas decorating in my house. The tree went up today. Ornaments go on tomorrow because we've been fiddling with the tree all day, adjusting branches. The only downside to an artificial tree is that the branches end up all clumped up when you first take it out of storage and set it up.

We also finalize the menus for both Thanksgiving and Christmas this week. It might seem like too far planning in advanced but if we want turkey at Christmas, we have to get it now then freeze because it either won't be available in December or will end up costing more.

Anyway I may show up online, but that's entirely so that I don't forget to check the thread at all.
I am going to be spending a lot of time away from the computer and not actually here.

i mean, you could have just looked at the post when i turned up and got the answer yourself. Why are you blindly taking the word of someone you also say youre ready to vote?

vote lifthrasil

No, I want to read more opinions about a mason claim.
Reading more opinions about a mason claim.

Also, what I want is that :

POOK, this "day" is too short, with too people absent (because of halloween ? is that SUCH a thing outside switzerland ?) and this really unbalances the game in favor of scum. It rewards lurking (for a few days of believable unavailability) and forces town to hop onto whatever wagon has had time building up without real turns discussions. In two days, with so many people absent ? Doesn't work. Please make the day longer, for genuine mafia gameplay sake.

Halloween is still fairly big in the United States.
Although I think it is more private parties than anything else around here.

well at first i was like 'oh nice' assuming they would claim and we'd get a free town, but actually seeing as they haven't i see the value in them keeping secret until claiming becomes necessary

hm yes deadline being in two day's time is pretty horrifying

@scene: you don't understand, do you? The hidden Mason is only effectively a vanilla as long as he is hidden. As soon as he claims, he turns into a PR: an Innocent Child. Which is very useful to have. The only way scum could avoid the innocent child effect would be by counter claiming and thereby sacrificing one of their own. Therefore, the only ones who have to fear the Mason's claim are the Scum.


And why didn't you contribute before?
The reason why I asked you, instead of ignoring what scene wrote, is easy: I wanted your reply. And your reply is evasive, garnished with a bit of OMGUS. ... Also, why should I ignore something someone wrote even if they are in my suspect pool. I can't be sure of my suspicion so I have to think about anything someone writes. Scene may be Scum or not. He may be unable to grasp the Mason thing and regularly have weird ideas. And of course throwing your vote on an already hammered wagon would have been pointless. But that doesn't change the truth of the observation that you didn't contribute much.

vote Joe

Right. Did some re-reading and did find some interesting tidbits. [Should probably note them.]
What I really, REALLY wish for right now would be dedopornos input.

Hello everyone, I'm back now. I'll catch up in details tonight but if someone can summarize what's been going on D2 maybe I can jump in quicker.

In case I'm dead - bah, but Pooka's PM doesn't sound like it so yeah.

Sorry to hear that, Micro. Fingers crossed you get through this quickly and cleanly.


CatV mentioned that Masons come in pairs. This isn't necessarily true. I've been in a game with 3 Mason so it's not out of the question for them to still have SOME usability left. I'm of the opinion the Mason(s) should claim at an opportune moment - if they can throw a wrench in mafia schemes or prevent going after a bad track including one of the Masons getting mislynched. Keeping the Mason(s) hidden, especially if it's just one person, a little longer effectively dilutes the Town pool and creates padding for potential power roles during the Nights. Technically any leftover Mason should still be somewhat easily confirmable - no one in their right mind would fake or counter claim if there is a real Mason in the game. Unless, of course, Pooka has multiple Mason groups but such setup feels sort of bastardy, so I don't know if it's probable.

Personal opinion: Mason(s) shouldn't claim unless they know they are about to get mislynched or maybe if they see early on they are picking up too much flak and becoming a distraction (for example if Frostburn was still alive and was a Mason he may have wanted to claim right now).


AZ did enough already by flipping. We know there is at least one more Mason in the game. There is no way someone claims that and doesn't get counter-claimed, if fake.

This is a direct contradiction, no? If the Mason claims the scum's potential PR pool instantly gets narrowed down.


This is common courtesy and in the interest of the game. Don't read too much into it. I'm usually the resident unvoter for the sake of pre-hammer claims only I wans't on the wagon yet.

Oi!

Who dat?


Some of this may already be made obsolete by further posts but I only managed to catch up till 280. More later.

What do you think? Also, if you read back then or even go back right now I was supposed to put my vote first. I announced doing so in order to avoid an accidental cross-post and "unwanted" hammer in case more people wanted to take part before the day was over yet you put your vote in anyway. I asked since I was about to leave and not come back for a few days.

This would be honestly absurd, if actually true.


Why yes, assuming the Mason is likely not coming out a little longer the scum need another way to make their job easier, don't they?


Those are a lot of assumptions, though. A Doctor may not exist, may get blocked or may even have used up their protection on the alleged Cop on N1 (assuming the Doctor is forced to alternate which is the norm).


I already said what I think in #326. No claim unless/until it's necessary.


Sorry, my flight was in the middle of the night between Monday and Tuesday (early AM hours), on Tuesday I had sick kids and other stuff to attend to. I'm here today, though.


Would you have done it? Why?


This is fake news. The claim is only necessary once it actually becomes so. Exactly nothing requires it right now.


If there is more than what I've already wrote you want to talk about - ask. Otherwise feel free to proceed.


Right, I stole time from my superiors and am pretty much caught up now. I haven't head any time to go back and re-read old stuff, though, so I'm currently mostly going off memory.

In a sense. But I must leave soon, so won't be able to type it all out. Will post again in the late hours.

which is precisely why I said I am against the Mason claiming in a later post. There is very little risk in the Mason themselves from claiming, the well being of the rest of the town...not so much.

All right. Let's just say that, as far as I'm concerned, I'm ready, willing and eager to lynch any member of what I define as the "mafia emergency damage control team". That is, those who are trying to postpone the town reveal. My questions about mafia experience were simply about who to cut some slack to, with the excuse of ignorance or inexperience.

I didn't know of the Innocent Child role. So my convoluted analogue was a one shot cop making a reveal about a player that happens to be himself, and with the added strength of being known truthful (cop could be fake claim). Innocent Child is clearer. And it's a mafia nightmare. Because for players who actively try to read and weight arguments scumminess, having one less suspect and one known honest train of thought is extremely precious. Having the mason revealed after a random nightkill is pointless, we all know who's town when dead. The argument about diluting the chances of "power role" nightkill are also dishonest : there are few power skills more useful than certifying a player's affiliation (even if one's own), and Innocent Children are target priorities for the mafia for that reason - suppressing certitudes and bringing back the population to full uncertainty (which what it involves in terms of false wagonning and argumentation distrust) is their first urgency.

Also, especially with such ridiculously short days, the later a town certification is made, the less damage for mafia, as the info and its implications won't have enough time to be processed in rounds of discussions.

Now what annoys me is that the mason I suspect is actually the one who's certification would be the least useful to arguments analysis (but still, having one less mafia suspect is still a boost for the investigation - essentially a lynch without the death, and middle in a discussion if early enough). The other thing is that I had scummy vibes from Lifth on day 1, but the fact that he's clearly pushing pro-town policies on day 2 makes me re-evaluate his case pretty strongly.

So, there we are. Even if mafia win the argument (and manage to avoid a town certification), I think that the fact of having had to argue against the reveal is already a strong enough tell. I wish there had been more time during this (ridiculously, game-breakingly short) day, and I still have to check the overlap with other causes of suspicions to select a specific vote. But I really don't buy a pro-town argument against town certification (especially ones claiming that certified townies favour mafia).

Other thing : I am very suspicious of Joe (and his vaguely scummy, non-committal answers), but I refuse to take the specific argument of his lurking in account, because I firmly believe he enjoys and respects forum mafia too much to use avoidance as a strategy - especially with real life justifications.