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General discussionGOG Mafia #78 - Regular Japanese Classroom(865 posts)(865 posts)
(865 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted October 31, 2022
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Lifthrasil: Not really. We know that at least one other Mason must exist. If the hidden Mason claims, Scum is put on the spot and faces a decision: if they don't counter-claim, we end up with a basically confirmed Towny. Which is bad for Scum. If they counterclaim, we end up in a 'either one or the other' situation, as Telika pointed out. Then we can lynch one of them and either hit scum or get a proven scum, if we hit Town. A trade one for one is good for Town. Of course there is the theoretical possibility of more than one Mason, but in a game of this size, this would be game-breaking and therefore quite unlikely.
There's one really big problem with this plan - Now that you've posted it in the thread, I don't think anyone is going to be foolish enough to fall for it and counter-claim the Mason.

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As to if the Mason should claim or not, I can see the merits in the saying quiet for now and the merits in the claiming immediately.

1) If the Mason stays quiet, they can join the Vanilla Town herd to protect power roles by making themselves a viable night kill target.

2) If the Mason reveals now, we have one confirmed Town.
Posted October 31, 2022
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supplementscene: Then you have Joe and Csanjuro not voting. Joe showed up at deadline, so he could of at least added his name to the leading wagon knowing the risk of a no lynch may have. But he chose not to. Casanjuro is new but has been very lurky. I do wonder if the Daychat for Mafia is because Casanjuro is a new player who drew a Mafia role.
Actually I'm very confident that PookaMustard said somewhere in the thread "[Forum game] Forum Mafia - Administration and general discussion" that he likes games where Team Mafia has day chat. Since PookaMustard is our game mod for this game, that's why there's day chat.

I would not assume that someone is mafia-aligned just because of a feature.



Anyway I have some more thoughts to share, but I do need to take a shower now (it's morning here) and get ready to go to Costco. If I don't go, the only food that will be brought back will on the level of be candy, candy canes, candy corn, and syrup.
Attachments:
candy.jpg (82 Kb)
Posted October 31, 2022
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Lifthrasil: Not really. We know that at least one other Mason must exist. If the hidden Mason claims, Scum is put on the spot and faces a decision: if they don't counter-claim, we end up with a basically confirmed Towny. Which is bad for Scum. If they counterclaim, we end up in a 'either one or the other' situation, as Telika pointed out. Then we can lynch one of them and either hit scum or get a proven scum, if we hit Town. A trade one for one is good for Town. Of course there is the theoretical possibility of more than one Mason, but in a game of this size, this would be game-breaking and therefore quite unlikely.
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Catventurer: There's one really big problem with this plan - Now that you've posted it in the thread, I don't think anyone is going to be foolish enough to fall for it and counter-claim the Mason.

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As to if the Mason should claim or not, I can see the merits in the saying quiet for now and the merits in the claiming immediately.

1) If the Mason stays quiet, they can join the Vanilla Town herd to protect power roles by making themselves a viable night kill target.

2) If the Mason reveals now, we have one confirmed Town.
This is a very good point. We're more likely to lose a power role if the Mason is outed. It depends on the value of having a confirmed Town. Maybe it's better to hold off on that claim for now in order to protect power roles.
Posted October 31, 2022
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supplementscene: We can also ask for anyone who has protective powers to protect this player so they don't get night killed, providing we have that role capability in the game. That could mean we either avoid a town night kill or they have to target the none Mason player. We may or may not have this power role but because neither Mafia or anyone else knows, the Mafia can't risk a no night kill. And we should consequently keep a confirmed Town player
Exactly, having a certified townie is much more important than potentially protecting a power role.

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supplementscene: This is a very good point. We're more likely to lose a power role if the Mason is outed. It depends on the value of having a confirmed Town. Maybe it's better to hold off on that claim for now in order to protect power roles.
Exactly, potentially protecting a power role is much more important than having a certified townie.

Also, you know what we could do ? Certify a townie, and yet not paralyze a protecting role by openly assigning them to one player (leaving all the others unprotected). How about that. Mafia would be sad for seeing a town confirmed, without the consolation of a certified free hit on the townie of their choice. Best of both world. Suffices to do the opposite of both your suggestions.
Posted October 31, 2022
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Catventurer: There's one really big problem with this plan - Now that you've posted it in the thread, I don't think anyone is going to be foolish enough to fall for it and counter-claim the Mason.

-----

As to if the Mason should claim or not, I can see the merits in the saying quiet for now and the merits in the claiming immediately.

1) If the Mason stays quiet, they can join the Vanilla Town herd to protect power roles by making themselves a viable night kill target.

2) If the Mason reveals now, we have one confirmed Town.
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supplementscene: This is a very good point. We're more likely to lose a power role if the Mason is outed. It depends on the value of having a confirmed Town. Maybe it's better to hold off on that claim for now in order to protect power roles.
Also something for the Mason specifically to keep in mind is that Day 2 ends on November 4th at 8pm London Time (UTC+1.) I'm behind everyone on Pacific (UTC-8), which means that the day ends at 11am my time. No matter how you look at it, the Mason has some time to think things over and decide how they want to proceed.


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supplementscene: We can also ask for anyone who has protective powers to protect this player so they don't get night killed, providing we have that role capability in the game. That could mean we either avoid a town night kill or they have to target the none Mason player. We may or may not have this power role but because neither Mafia or anyone else knows, the Mafia can't risk a no night kill. And we should consequently keep a confirmed Town player
The issue with this plan is that I find myself in aggreement with Telika in post #273 when he says,"Mafia killed one of the two least active players of day one, in terms of votes. It gives very little information. This tells us that, well, the mafia team doesn't consist exclusively in beginners."

I do not think that Team Mafia is going to fall for any plans that are stated outright in the thread. Also also aggree with him when he says in post #289 that while everyone is converging on the Mason, the Mafia will just pick someone else off. We may as well forget about any "Everyone do this or that to trap the Mafia" suggestions for Night 2.


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Telika: The only kill that would have informed us less than Ambitionz (who?) would have been Joe. Joe didn't vote either (apart from the random vote), but Ambitionz did give opinions, Joe was just "hello did i miss something". Even less material. This raises the question of why Joe wasn't killed instead.
Technically Catte wouldn't give much information either. He's a pretty lurky player to begin with, but this is absolutely normal for him. I can explain Catte as I described him as being like a cat, lurking about and quietly judging us just like a cat would.

I have no explanation for Joe, which is the difference and a serious issue.
Posted October 31, 2022
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supplementscene: We can also ask for anyone who has protective powers to protect this player so they don't get night killed, providing we have that role capability in the game. That could mean we either avoid a town night kill or they have to target the none Mason player. We may or may not have this power role but because neither Mafia or anyone else knows, the Mafia can't risk a no night kill. And we should consequently keep a confirmed Town player
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Telika: Exactly, having a certified townie is much more important than potentially protecting a power role.

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supplementscene: This is a very good point. We're more likely to lose a power role if the Mason is outed. It depends on the value of having a confirmed Town. Maybe it's better to hold off on that claim for now in order to protect power roles.
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Telika: Exactly, potentially protecting a power role is much more important than having a certified townie.

Also, you know what we could do ? Certify a townie, and yet not paralyze a protecting role by openly assigning them to one player (leaving all the others unprotected). How about that. Mafia would be sad for seeing a town confirmed, without the consolation of a certified free hit on the townie of their choice. Best of both world. Suffices to do the opposite of both your suggestions.
It sounds like you're mocking me trying to figure out the game as I go along as someone who hasn't played that much.

I've come to the conclusion the Mason should be silent, stragetically.
Posted October 31, 2022
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supplementscene: It sounds like you're mocking me
Oh it's way more accusatory than that. But let's see how the day goes.
Posted October 31, 2022
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supplementscene: You're also making another huge assumption that players that are questioning whether Frosty is in fact Town and whether other players are suspicious is anti-town and LAMIST.
This, I did not understand. I read it ~5x, and did not understand. Could you, please, rephrase it? :(

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supplementscene: So to clarify, you're making a HUGE ASSUMPTION that all of the first 5 votes on Frosty's wagon were all Town. Just because there's reason to critique Frosty doesn't mean Scum wouldn't happily sit on his wagon
This, unfortunately, is way more true than I'd like to admit.
The problem, and our different approaches lie therein that:
I view the reasoning behind the votes as genuine.*
YOU made YOUR stance clear in #279.

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supplementscene: ... but the assumptions on myself and Dedo are anti town ...
How are they anti-town ?!
I would understand if you would fault my reasoning, but how is putting ''This player appears more Town leaning.'' ''I think this player could be Mafia.'' out, anti town?

*The unfortunate truth here is, that with Ambiti0nZ murder, my math does not add up... atleast 1 mafia should be among the people who voted. But I honestly cannot detect anything scummy about the way the others voted!
Posted November 01, 2022
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Atlo: This, I did not understand. I read it ~5x, and did not understand. Could you, please, rephrase it? :(
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supplementscene: You're also making another huge assumption : that players that are questioning [a) whether Frosty is in fact Town, and b) whether other players [than Frosty] are suspicious ] is(*are) anti-town and LAMIST.
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Atlo:
YES I AM BORED. I have annoying boring stuff to do and seek refuge here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILysMhm8lXs
Posted November 01, 2022
Thank you! =D
Much appreciated. =)
Posted November 01, 2022
Completely off topic post for people that like from thread-to-thread trick or treating for candy... and by candy, I mean free games.


Lone_Scout's Monthly Giveaway thread has reset and is now taking requests for November. If you like claiming free games, go grab something. <3
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/the_gogmmunity_monthly_giveaway/post2

GOG is giving away Jazz Jackrabbit 2 on the home page.

IndieGala has several Halloween-themed games up on the freebies page:
https://freebies.indiegala.com/


I'm probably going to spend most of the rest of today watching horror movies with the family and making comments about how dumb people are behaving in them. It's like characters in horror movies want to get taken out by the monsters.
Posted November 01, 2022
I will also have to say that I am on the side of keeping the remaining mason hidden. I just don't see them being all that enticing to the Mafia, and giving scum the knowledge to hone in on a better potential Power Role NK sounds less than ideal to me.


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Atlo: (If you want, I can post the rant. It's a little more detailed answer.) =]
I myself am ready and welcoming to a long winded rant. Unless post 293 was your rant.
Posted November 01, 2022
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Atlo: (If you want, I can post the rant. It's a little more detailed answer.) =]
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bucktoothgamer: I myself am ready and welcoming to a long winded rant. Unless post 293 was your rant.
#293 was neither a rant, nor did it really pertain to the original topic. =]
Gladly!

Right, so let's assume you ask me why I voted for Frostburn...

Because you lot told me to!?
Whom else should I have voted for!?
With around 30 hours left on the clock, frostburn lay at (4), the next best candidate lay at (1)... correction candidateS.... the entire voting of Day1 was one giant Spaghetti mess!

Not vote for anyone!?
''a no-lynch benefits mafia.'' ''I vote we lynch no-one! Party in the moonlight!!! :D/-<''
Posted November 01, 2022
[Funny. In my mind the rant should have been somewhat longer.]
[In essence I just really, really, REALLY wanted an excuse to post that stupid dancing smiley in a forum. :D]
[Why oh why did i put the S in italics.]
[Already have Jazz Jackrabbit, but thanks for the heads up. Saw your name in the donor list. Cool. =]
Posted November 01, 2022
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Lifthrasil: Not really. We know that at least one other Mason must exist. If the hidden Mason claims, Scum is put on the spot and faces a decision: if they don't counter-claim, we end up with a basically confirmed Towny. Which is bad for Scum. If they counterclaim, we end up in a 'either one or the other' situation, as Telika pointed out. Then we can lynch one of them and either hit scum or get a proven scum, if we hit Town. A trade one for one is good for Town. Of course there is the theoretical possibility of more than one Mason, but in a game of this size, this would be game-breaking and therefore quite unlikely.
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Catventurer: There's one really big problem with this plan - Now that you've posted it in the thread, I don't think anyone is going to be foolish enough to fall for it and counter-claim the Mason.
All the better. Then the Mason turns into an innocent child the moment he claims. A confirmed Townie is powerful, because it is one player who's analysis we don't have to scrutinize for motive. An innocent child can still be wrong, but won't be intentionally misleading. That is an advantage, having one trusted player.

However, I agree again with Telika: binding a hypothetical protective PR to the Mason/IC is a bad idea. Don't tell scum beforehand who is going to be protected at Night. That would remove the risk of them losing a NK to a successful protection. If this idea weren't from scene, it would be quite scummy. But from experience I would say, that scene could have such an idea as town too.

But I like one question that scene asked: why didn't Joe vote?
@Joe: why didn't you vote frost to help avoid a no-lynch?
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionGOG Mafia #78 - Regular Japanese Classroom(865 posts)(865 posts)
(865 posts)