So if you look in your private messages you should have gotten one from pooka when the game started telling you what team your on.

Also be VERY careful not to edit your posts. This also means avoid making two posts back to back within 10 minutes of each other. This is a rule that's taken very seriously.

He already, kinda answered that in #121 and #142:


Will give my opinion on current affairs in a few hours; or tomorrow morning, to be correct.

YOU. DON'T. SAY. *blush & bow bow bow*

Mafia killed one of the two least active players of day one, in terms of votes. It gives very little information. This tells us that, well, the mafia team doesn't consist exclusively in beginners.

The only kill that would have informed us less than Ambitionz (who?) would have been Joe. Joe didn't vote either (apart from the random vote), but Ambitionz did give opinions, Joe was just "hello did i miss something". Even less material. This raises the question of why Joe wasn't killed instead.

I don't really regret my vote. Frost was disruptive and terribly scummy right to the end, with his unreadable vote jumping and omguses (omgi?). Indeed a mafia asset. If the mafia (directly or indirectly) hammered him, I think it was knowing that someone would hammer him anyway : I think that the mafia would have benefited from preserving him. This, plus his scum-likeness, makes me strongly suspect the late voters, and the ones who played it "hmm, I think he's town", and especially their overlaps : the ones who played it "hmm, I think he's town but I'll vote anyway (but I hope you'll remember I was right)". I tend to believe that it'd have taken a mafioso to think that Frost was town.

At the end, those who voted Frost were Cat, Buck, Atlo*, Dedo*, me, Scene*, Lifth. Those who did not were Ambtionz, Csanjuro, Catte and Joe. But : *Dedo hammered claiming that Frost was town (222), *Scene also pre-hammered during the no-no-lynch dusk (219) while having merely conceded that Frost had shifted from "probably town" to "all over the place" (170). Catte did a hardly motivated mini-vote (from 177 to 183) before retracting it to avoid a to fast resolution (was at L-1). *Atlo, at 165, went full "I don't think he's mafia but".

On the other hand, Frost was indeed a soft target for the mafia, if the mafia wanted to lynch a scummy enough townie, he was right there. Now, mafia had daychat, so I assume they did synchronize their strategies whereas they would have pulled the rope in different direction without that. So there's the question of any noticable group shift about Frost (possibly too obfuscated by the context of lynch deadlines).

First thoughts. I kinda keep the same angle. Frost was town, yet I keep suspecting those who "sided with him" despite the (very real, very existing) appearances, and ...in particular those who seemed to see value in his analysis of Joe's random vote ?

But this latest point works if Joe is town. If he's mafia (and spared as such tonight, which is a serious possibility), no mafioso would falsely pretend to see a strategy in his random vote.

Okay, tldreread. In short :

Wacky Frost : early easy target VS mafia asset reluctantly discarded
Kill rationale : least readable VS second least readable
Crowd movements : lynch deadline VS synched strats
Frost innocence : guessable by townie VS only readable by mafia

Also, more concretely :

Masonic hints in Ambitionz' (long) posts ? If not, why not ? Don't masons certify each other's towniness ? Would it be worth it for Ambitionz' mason to claim now (is there a risk other than having a double claim with a liar, and therefor still an info about opposing affiliations) ? Maybe we can still certify a townie with that.

The big issue with the other mason claiming at this point is that we have no way of verifying the validity without AZ's input. Granted if the mystery player and AZ were throwing hints in their posts and someone provided such hints as proof I would be inclined to believe them.

I will say that at this point I personally do not see a massive RISK in the other mason claiming. As scumm would surely want to try and snuff out a stronger PR than someone who is now basically a glorified VT.

There is already something that I interpret as such, actually (and that may turn out a less useful clearance than I hoped for).

But what I was meaning, before, is that even a false claim would be interesting. Along with the true claim, it would lead to a "one of us both is a liar" situation, and an either/or couple is already useful by itself.

Please don't edit your posts. Remember:
- you can't edit your posts directly with the edit button
- if you posted before, always wait 13 minutes before posting a second time in a row
- if your post doesn't go through, refresh the thread and see if it's posted or not before doing anything else

The passing of Ambiti0n steers my suspicions off course.
I'll post what I had suspected up until yesterday night.

Catventurer is for me completely innocent. From the very beginning up until now she always actually defended Frost. At the end she did actually vote for him, but because, as I see it, 2 veteran players, who were at odds with each other did so. And because she might have been rightly pissed off about him by then.

In the same vein dedoporno also defended Frostburn. Even... what's the word... urged(?) Catte to call back her vote, and let Frost speak to see other options.

But here's the thing that utterly annoys me about this whole Frost debacle:
As Lift and Cat said: ''Your play style only aids team mafia!''
With him jumping around, declaring himself to be mafia, casting a vote on 2 different players each day - it is hard to fault any reasoning for voting against him.

Thus, as far as I'm concerned - townies lynched another townie, whilst mafia sat back and enjoyed the show.

my name is grompy catte, supplementscene*, JoeSapphire, and csanjuro are therefore consider mafia. For the time being.

*supplementscene voted for Frost, but with something like 80minutes til deadline - someone had to do it.
**Joe was MIA the entirety of day1, so there's not actually anything to hold against him.
***I am fully aware that taking Catventurer's side I am now even more scummy in dedoporno's eyes. Hi! =)

Let's clarify this.

Csanjuro, according to Pooka's private message, are you Ambitionz's other mason ?

If you are, and tell us so, it would mean that we can identify you as townie, and will make the town's investigative work that much easier (one less person to suspect being mafia).


Can you elaborate on how Scene is different from Dedo and from you, when it comes to "not voting but voting" against Frost ?

Well from my POV it's good and bad Ambiti0nZ has been lynched. We've lost a Masons claim on 1 hand. Ambiti0nZ if you're reading in after play, I'll say please try to change your massive multi mini quote analysis. I can't solve whether you are Town or Scum because it seems far too all over the place

I think Liftraisal is either Mafia, Town with a Role or too busy with RL to spend his usual time in the game. But I lean towards Mafia for a few reasons.

1. Before he voted for Frost he send he read Frost as leaning Town.
2. Voting Frost for claiming Mafia is understandable
3. What isn't understandable is having no reads other than an initial reason to lynch someone.
4. Therefore Lift is not trying to solve the game
5. Why is Lift not trying to solve the game?

5A) He's scum, he doesn't need to solve and doesn't want to accuse more than 1 person
5B) Power role, that he doesn't want to make himself the centre of attention
5C) Real life is too busy

I don't think it's just C, because Lift has loads of time to teach new players how to play the game. That's making him look active and buddying new players while not actually playing Mafia and trying to solve. Not that there's tons of information to solve but I think

A is also more likely than B. Which I'm not sure he takes this course of action.

VOTE LIFTRAISAL

It's not so much about the vote being cast, but the circumstances surrounding the vote. With 80 minutes left until the deadline -- someone had to vote for Frost. If it would not be Scene and Dedo, it would be Catte, Joe, or even Ambiti0n, whom I wouldn't be surprised would wake up in the middle of the night to do it. (maybe not, but you get the point.)

Depending on the phrasing -- they did not vote / they did what had to be done.

The difference is that Dodo repeatedly said:
He, just like Catventurer, knew (suspected 90%) Frost to be town.

As for my own vote -- I always imagined that if someone were to ask me why I voted for Frost I would go on a rant. Instead I'll answer with one sentence:
''Because you lot told me to!?''

(If you want, I can post the rant. It's a little more detailed answer.) =]

Are you... are you seriously questioning my appetite for a rant ?

:-|

HELP !?!?!

I don't know you! What am I supposed to answer !?

Not really. We know that at least one other Mason must exist. If the hidden Mason claims, Scum is put on the spot and faces a decision: if they don't counter-claim, we end up with a basically confirmed Towny. Which is bad for Scum. If they counterclaim, we end up in a 'either one or the other' situation, as Telika pointed out. Then we can lynch one of them and either hit scum or get a proven scum, if we hit Town. A trade one for one is good for Town. Of course there is the theoretical possibility of more than one Mason, but in a game of this size, this would be game-breaking and therefore quite unlikely.

So, usually I don't like early claims, but in this case I think if the hidden Mason claims, it is an advantage to Town. So I actually would be for it.

All in all I like Telika's analysis. Atlo's assumption that all Scum were off the Frost-train is, however, too simple. I am sure that not all scum were on that train. But I guess that at least one scum helped push it. ... Although Frost did most of the work pushing his own train. Let's not forget that Scum have Daychat and can easily organize how to handle trains and who votes and who does not.


@supplementscene: I am not going to answer your implicit question whether I have a PR.

I do like Lift's idea of the other Mason claiming their role. If there's no counter claim we have a confirmed Town player. If there is a counter claim, we get to lynch at least 1 Scum in the next 2 nights

We can also ask for anyone who has protective powers to protect this player so they don't get night killed, providing we have that role capability in the game. That could mean we either avoid a town night kill or they have to target the none Mason player. We may or may not have this power role but because neither Mafia or anyone else knows, the Mafia can't risk a no night kill. And we should consequently keep a confirmed Town player

Why do you think targetting no info players is benefiscial for Scum btw? I would think targeting someone who had reads suspecting Town players to be the better tactic. Do you think Ambitionz didn't vote for anyone because he hoped not to catch the wrath of a Mafia NK knowing he had a role?

Onto the bolded. Mafia definitely would have benefited from a no lynch on Frost. And we were at risk of a no lynch. 1 thing I did note was Dedo asking 'should I hammer him', with 80 miniutes of the deadline to go. I told him he must hammer him in case someone else did not or in case he forgot. But would he have done so otherwise? Dedo is an experienced player and knows the importance of not lynching someone.

Then you have Joe and Csanjuro not voting. Joe showed up at deadline, so he could of at least added his name to the leading wagon knowing the risk of a no lynch may have. But he chose not to. Casanjuro is new but has been very lurky. I do wonder if the Daychat for Mafia is because Casanjuro is a new player who drew a Mafia role.