I know, I know. I was just musing the consequences of my vote to the extreme.

Lifthrasil in his ''explaining the game'' post to csanjuro said:

and here you are also imploring:

This is probably just me being new, but I don't really see how lynching an innocent townie would result in anything useful.
As for voting on Lift - No, because I said - I'm simply, by nature, suspicious of anyone who is helpful. But I can differentiate between ''this feels weird'' and ''X cannot be Y, because of Z.''
What other reasons are there to vote for Lift?

Telika didn't like his phrasing. (To an obsessive degree I might add.) But actually did not cast a vote!
supllementscene & catventurer found his excuse of ''wanting to lynch anyone who lies'' as scummy. (But as he (and you) stated - someone must be lynched).

So, whom else to vote for?
There is a lot of finger pointing going around, but as I said to supllementscene -- I can't make heads or tails of you lot. And the one I find scummiest -- there I can confess that my reason would be weak.

I Think you have to write out their entire username.

It's a joke, why would you expect profit from it. You're basically saying that it's anti-town because I'll get myself lynched while you're trying to lynch me.

My scum reads are Lift, Catv and dedo, but my reads on all of them are undermined by the fact what I'm scumreading them for is something they would personally likely do as town. (I Think)
I Also find Telika somewhat scummy but also towny so I don't want to lynch them.

No.

It results in a LOT useful.

That's exactly what I've said of Frosty in one of the prior games.
Erratic *is* the norm for him.

---------------------------------------------------

That's quite alright. Let me see if I can find it again. It was when he was talking talking about tutorials and daychat.

Post #88: "I Meant that a tutorial over daychat could be better."

A "How to Scum" Tutorial for new players would be 0% wacky and 100% excellent. If anyone not Frosty said it, I would have just nodded and kept on reading. Coming from Frosty, this just threw me off a bit.

Also keep in mind. This was on Sunday. There was ice skating on, so I was reading the thread during the down time and commercials.... then he goes and drops an excellent suggestion. I think it just threw me off.

---------------------------------------------------

In the case of Az and Catte, low activity has been the norm based on the very few games that I have played with them here.

I'm expecting that Az is going to show up late (again), get hit with a penalty from the game moderator (again), and start doing marathon posts (again.)

Catte, on the other hand, is most likely lurking about (like a cat), quietly judging us all (like a cat), and determining our weaknesses to use against us (just like a cat would). I'm 100% convinced that he is using Jiji as his avatar because he knows that it will cause at least one player (myself) to look at Jiji and not try to start any lynch wagons against him because only a complete monster would lynch Jiji. Saying that if anyone tries to run an all cat mafia game, I will have to sit out.

---------------------------------------------------

No. No. No. My issue with Telika is entirely that he wants to keep focusing on post #47 like it is the be all end all to things. Think about it if we all drop everything and put all 100% of our attention on post #47, are we even looking for mafia?

If someone thinks there is something wrong with that post, great - tell me what it is. However I only saw Lift helping a new player out, and others said the same thing. The fact that Telika kept wanting to return to post #47 even after he was told that by multiple people is why I switched my vote to him because even if I didn't have connection issues, I am not going to waste time psychoanalyzing post #47 for hidden meanings and secret handshakes.

---------------------------------------------------

I find myself in a complicated situation. I find Telika's obsession with one of Lift's posts to be the most suspicious thing going on at the moment, which in turn makes me inclined to believe Lift is town. Lift wants to lynch you.



Anyway I don't expect to get another post in before my ISP gets here. Back in 5 hours? Hopefully sooner.

ISP Is here!!!!
Hopefully this won't take long to fix!

You misread. I wasn't referring to your judgment of Telika, but Lift.
In one post you found it suspicious that Lift wants to lynch all liars. It was you, wasn't it ?

I will comb your posts soon. It must be somewhere. If i mistook you for someone else - apologies.

\o/

Well that's odd...

Did a cursory comb and could not find the ''I think Lifthrasil wanting to lynch liars is scummy'' post.
Did I actually mistook something ?

The only thing that I could find in this regard is #119:

what means "I'm TOWN"?

This "obsession" could have been a one sentence question followed by one-sentence answers if it hadn't been repeatedly misinterpreted (deliberately or otherwise) as some "is helping good or bad", require me to reformulate it again and again and again and also again.

Also I've played -and also hosted- a couple of games, long ago. Before making a break from gog due to the political toilet it had become. I remember Scene, Dedoporno, Lifthrasil I think, and of course JoeSapphire, as player names from that era. But as I said it was long ago. I don't remember their playing styles, except that I'd say JoeSapphire was more active (I doubt his level of activity would be much related to his alignment, but it may be worth re-checking his mafia/town playstyles). But I was more active too, and circumstances fluctuate (I will probably be much more active starting next wednesday).

As for now I don't have much reads. My two only angles were the interpretation (and justification of interpretation) of Joe's random vote, and that thing with Lifth's post. Apparently, the people who've formerly witnessed Lifth helping other players (and who've understood my question) don't notice a difference in content. And Frost's claim of ignoring there's a mafia chat sounded kinda believable to me (though I may be fooled). To complicate things further, Frost and Litfh are at odds, while I was seeing them as part of the same nebula when it came to Joe's random vote. : My scumcloud was Frost, Litfh, Scene and Alto. My towncloud was Cat, Catte, csanjuro. My neutral zone was Joe, Ambitionz, Dedo and Buck. But if I shift Frost back to neutral due to mafiachat, then the scumminess of the Joe thing shits aswell, along with all those I suspected based on it.

Then there's activity, I'm trying to overcome the visibility bias but its hard. I'm surprised Pook didn't prod Ambitionz, but he's so mute that I assume some real life issue more than a strategy. Joe is silent, but (and this asks verification) he's such a fan of mafia games that I doubt a scum affiliation would suffice to silence him.

I think that posting-a-lot-without-content may be a good thing to check, but this will demand a re-read, as it's not a thing I've paid attention to in the first go.

So, these were my trains of thought so far.

ISP is done. They did a bunch of line checks and ultimately had to swap out the main modem/router box that the television and Internet both come in through.


I mentioned it briefly in passing. I first heard of it in the Masters of the Universe theme game, but it isn't a hard fast be all end all thing. I think more of a when all else fails or when you have no other good suspects, lynch the liar. My lynch the wacky is pretty much the same idea. I'm not going to stubbornly sit on who I think is thw wackiness and refuse to budge if things are moving towards someone else.


I can't comment on Joe other than to say that he really is the person I have the hardest time reading. When I was hanging out in the observation thread for the first game, I really was flip-flopping back and forth when it came to if I thought he was town or mafia. In the Masters of the Universe game, I was town-aligned and tied to Joe via the Lovers role. If he had dropped any hints to me in the thread that he was also town-aligned, they all went over my head so I remained clueless to his affiliation.

The problem with Frosty is that absolutely anything is believable because he's erratic to the extent that wacky is the norm for him. However since he's in Lift's scum cloud and your scum cloud, I'm going to switch my vote back to Frosty. While I thought that you were a bit too obsessed with one of Lift's posts to the extent that you fell under my wacky rule, I also think that if two people that I find to be at odds with each other can agree that that someone else is scum then I should error on the side of trust and go with that. I do believe that out of Lift and yourself that if one of you is mafia that it is also true that at least one of you is town.

unvote Telik
vote Frosty

The ability to take a look at who voted for which lynch candidates(wagons) on previous days is a big part of trying to fish out mafia as the list of players start to whittle down. Some players can fool anyone into believing their townness with what they type, but being able to dig useful evidence out of who someone voted for on D1 and use that to determine YOUR vote on D5 is a tool you may have to use. Any round(day) we go without lynching anyone lets the mafia stay more undetected that much longer.

So the two primary teams are Town and Mafia, your private message from pooka should have advised you of such(do not mention anything about the contents of your PM here mind you). What Frostburn meant by saying you are town is that based on your actions so far they have a feeling that you are on the town team and not he mafia team. Generally a good thing, you want as many people as possible to believe that you are town.

oh I see thanks for the answer

Yeah I don't think dedo is going anywhere/hunting with their posts. In my only previous game with dedo he was scum, so me thinking this is normal for him doesn't exactly favor him.

Vote dedoporno

Nope. Mistake in my notes. He didn't vote for Joe because of the random stage vote (the reason I would find scummy). He actually voted for a different silly reason (and if he hadn't mentioned it in post 120, I wouldn't have gone back to post 59 and corrected my notes).

So, no scum vibe. Neutral. Even leaning town.

However, concerning Frostburn :

I will bypass the mafia daychat blunder, and go back to

vote FrostburnPhoenix

because he could also have genuinely not read the rules and yet have attempted to make us believe there's no mafia daychat (thinking it would be a nice secret to keep). It's one more possibility that weakens my "ignored daychat threrefore town" theory.

But what made me re-analyse this, is his omgus vote. Omgus is a derogative notion, it's a misleading bias, and it's not a thing to knowingly consciously cast a vote on. For instance I do suspect SupplementScene (a person who supposedly finds "voting because of a random vote" less scummy than "voting because of a vote-because-of-a-random-vote"), but as he voted me and I'm wary of my own omgus bias, I kept my vote on another proponent of that argument. Frostburn does the opposite, fully embracing omgus, and that's not showing townie concerns.

And also (and I'm aware that, ironocally, it veers close to omgus aswell), I didn't really like his post 112. Cat (who I tend to imagine town) stated that he hesitated to vote against me but refrained himself thinking I was new to the game, and Frost just mentioned I wasn't. It's true and informative, but it was just that. It implicitly meant "go ahead, vote Telika please" but (this is what I dislike about it) it wasn't accompanied by an opinion. It wasn't "feel free to vote Telika, but I think he's town" or "feel free to vote Telika, I also think he's scum". It felt more indirect, and seemingly uninvolved. And yes, he was currently being voted on by the same Cat, so he possibly welcomed the diversion, but even so - while no one is super happy to get votes, no town simply prefers the vote to be cast on some random other.

I got a sneaky vibe from it. These two elements (and the additional nuance on the daychat post) bring my vote back. Not to mention we're nearing the deadline (and tomorrow will be a busy day IRL).

Speaking of which :

Yeah, it's a bit counter-intuitive, and I was also pretty much against in in my first games (veterans maybe remember). But the rationale is that with no lynch at all, the mafia could simply pick townies one by one. Whereas any lynch, besides having a chance to actually hit the mafia, provides material for further analysis - typically who started or fueled or otherwise contributed to the mislynch. In a way, even a wrong lynch wagon is a bait for dishonest arguments, in addition to having been a chance to be correct (for right or wrong reasons, actually).

Also :

In mafia jargon, "town", "townies", etc, are the players from the team who don't know who belongs to which team. And "mafia", "scum", etc, are the players from the team who know who belongs to which team.

So "town" players try to find out who make the honest arguments (trying to vote to lynch "mafia" players), and "mafia" players are the ones who try to mislead "town" players with false arguments, trying to direct the votes towards "town" players.

I Do think Telika's initial push on me was towny but it quickly felt as if they were just looking for reasons for me to be scum.

#142 makes me unsure what to think of csan anymore.

Lift is probably just his townie self. Catv is being unusual however.