ah yeah I hadn't considered that you're right then it makes sens- HAY WAYTAMINNIT

There's a town role that can kill players called vigilante.
There's also a few roles that can change a kill's target : bus driver, redirector

But I think if either of those had happened probably whoever did it would have told us now, and I can believe now it was a mafia kill.

Hey JoeSapphire, thanks for the lesson! My point was that if they know exactly what the Rolestopper did, they might claim to have done a power on someone they didn't because they know that said PR can't contradict them, which in turn muddles the waters and could even lead to incriminating a townie for the mislynch


I was referring to what Lifthrasil told babark last Night, not what babark told us yesterDay.


What about Jack, can I call you Jack?


That's fair, and yes, it's babark who won't be back until Sunday evening.

As for the last part - I have thoughts, but I'll wait for babark to reply first.


[emphasis added]

Could you point to where this town-read took place? Also go into what you mean with the part I highlighted?


We seem to have a misunderstanding here, and it's on me. Let me try this again:
-- What I meant in my post #765 about her naivete is that it strikes me as a characteristic of her as a person in RL that leaks into her game, and read your comment in post #777 as you saying "yeah, I think it is... actually, I'm not sure".
-- I read her comment in post #779 as her confirming my assessment - correct me if I read this incorrectly, @detective_razza.
-- This made me go back to your comment, and ask you to clarify if I read her comment and yours correctly, but your reply here tells me that I misunderstood you, and that we weren't talking about the same thing.

So, now that I've hopefully explained myself better, would you say that, based on your experience with her through work, the characterisation she gave herself as a person is fair?
Note: if the answer is yes, whether she's using that as mafia isn't part of the question.


I can, just wanted to know what went through your head when you made the post; thanks for indulging me.

1. dedoporno
2. babark
2. RWarehall


Funny, just today I was thinking how ZFR has slid into the background after being in the centre of D1; no more inquiries, more reactionary interactions and fewer in number, as we all seem to have left him alone to happily sit on the town-read he got D1. ZFR's not for toDay, but I've made a note to look into him. Same for Ambiti0nZ.


[emphasis added]

We don't know that for certain, do we? There's always the case the mafia have a Strongman.


I'm against telling PRs what to do, because that's giving mafia a blueprint to refine their own actions.


Colour me intrigued. Which game was that?

bump if you'd like to try and correct the mess above.

Oh ok, I only used the term "convinced" because of your posts #656 and #667, but looks like I read them as more affirmative than what you meant.



You've taken my question like three steps further down than what I was referring to with it, but that's probably my fault. The implied "known way" wasn't about a common pattern of how we'd play it, but simply this - you, me, and others we both know, would use it each and every Night, full stop. Do you disagree with this? babark doesn't strike me as someone that'd do the same; what's your impression?


Is that why you refused to do his 3 names Challenge?



Perhaps not, but you're a cheater.



[emphasis added]

I don't follow what you mean with the part I highlighted, could you elaborate?



I wasn't cracking down on anyone after RWarehall. babark was PoE, so an acceptable lynch at the time. He's not in my PoE toDay.

One thing you should know about me is that I play quite close to the vest, asking questions and interacting to get a feel/read on others, then re-evaluating things in private to check where I am; rinse and repeat.

As to who would want me silenced and try to kill me N2, depends on who's on the mafia team. People that we know each other quite well from past games would be good candidates, as they know that I'm persistent and will do my best to nail them. In this context, that would be ZFR, dedoporno, RWarehall, maybe JoeSapphire, Catte and Ambiti0nZ.

Surprisingly for me this game, I have varying degrees of town leans/reads on most and no concrete scum read** (I thought I had one in RWarehall, but that's mostly gone poof), and that's keeping me on my toes. So I keep re-evaluating as the game progresses to avoid/prevent a nasty surprise somewhere down the road, if I can help it. JoeSapphire and dedoporno are in my PoE because I don't believe that none of the mafia bussed bucktoothgamer, I'm going to revisit ZFR and Ambiti0nZ for reasons I gave earlier, and Catte because typing this out made me think of something worrisome.

Not sure if any of this helps in your decision making.

** in past games it was the other way around

Not sure how to unmess it. I don't think I missed any close-quotes, I blame the forum software. But to try again :D...

I'm not sure what you mean? To find out the answers. I'm not as experienced with the game as everyone else, so considering my role and powers, I was trying to understand how things are supposed to work and what happens. I wasn't asking why mafia targetted frostburn, that much was obvious.

Thanks to catte and Joe for the explanations for my stream-of-thought questions

I hope it is no issue for me to repeat what people have said here already for today, for my own summary:

- ZFR voted Razza
- Razza and AmbitionZ (say they) were not around near the end of NK, so they did not have any actions relating to that around that time (changing a vote, etc.)
- Dedo has something up his sleeve that will happen later
- RW (says he) used his role on Joe and that Joe did nothing
- RW voted for Razza as well
- Razza says he has some info based on his role as well, more info coming later
- Joe voted for dedo
- Catte voted Joe



Going by what we can reasonably assume, Joe was not the one who did anything, I'm guessing RW is not the one who did anything either. As for...whoever challenged the challenge...I don't know who I'd one-shot kill, might have said Joe before, but things seem to have changed. But HSL and RW are safe town in my eyes, lets tentatively say Joe is as well (although I guess as someone else mentioned, he could've just done nothing and let other mafia handle it for the night).
That leaves ZFR, Catte, Dedoporno, Razza and AmbitionZ. Someone was asking for a read on ZFR, but I haven't really got one one way or another. Going back to the votes the last two nights, and filtering it down, it still comes back to Catte, Dedoporno and Razza (no Joe for now). So... for the time being I continue with my vote as above.

Going to sleep now, but I usually am up during the dead time in about 8 hours from now, and will see and reply further to anything (as well as look back to all the cryptic hints people were talking about relating to the end of D2).

*sigh* no one is going to ask why I, if the game depended on it, would Vig HSL, whom I'm Town-reading, and not for example Razza whom I'm voting?

I hate it when I have the answer but no one asks the question...

PS I'm visiting family during the past week and a half. And also the argument with Ambitionz has taken its toll on me. Hence I'm quieter. Someone else dig that hole from the meme.

ah- thank you, it at least gives me a start of who to look into. is the list (emphasis added) in order or just a general list? i’m going to guess not from the “maybe” but i just wanted to clarify?

Celebrations are more or less over for the day. I'm catching up now.

I hope that won't be necessary.


You understood this is someone who gets killed off, right?

You did. Is this serious or are you just mocking Joe?


What baffles me is game balance based on claimed roles and actions.

OK, I'm pretty sure you didn't understand how this works :D


I think I understand what you're getting at. Assuming I do I'll say this - from a technical perspective this is better than trying to force it in the other way as on top of the obvious benefit there is possibly another one you're not aware of. This is just looking at things from mechanical standpoint. The problem is that, firstly, you'll be making a mistake, and secondly, there is a trade-off which I'm not sure it's worth it as it doesn't really make things that much easier for me personally. Maybe it'll be more worth it to others in which case fine. If I have understood you correctly I'd say go with whatever you think best. I'm pretty sure it's not the worst option there is even if there are better ones. If this isn't what you meant then huh?


If I have followed your last few posts correctly I'd say there is a decent chance I was mistaken and this was in fact a scum kill.


I have a reason to believe RW's claim which is still valid. Yesterday that was good enough to take his claim at face value. Today he's still alive and Dessimu isn't which was somewhat worrysome. That being said given some potential recent findings are making reconsider things once again.


ikr?

I'll wait for JoeSapphire's reply/reaction to babark's posts before sharing thoughts (I mentioned earlier).


*sees that dedporno didn't ask this time*

Fine - why would you vig me on your path to losing the game?

And now that this came up again - @JoeSapphire, what are you making of the results you got?


@Cadaaaaveer747, threads calling you!



Not sure what "order" you're asking for, but here's a bit of clarification.
The first three are the ones I've played the most with (ZFR the least), so we know each other's game better.
From the second three, I've played less games with JoeSapphire and Catte than with the above, and Ambiti0nZ was a very long time ago, hence the maybe.



Could you go into this a bit?


I said I'm intrigued when JoeSapphire started this, now I'm utterly confused... Is either of you going to share with the rest of the class what this is all about?


This reads like you don't want to share said reason? May I ask, why that may be?


Would you like to give this another try and rephrase? Because I can't understand what you're saying here.


And that's it for me, see you all tomorrow.

I thought you'd never ask...

In the scenario Joe described, it all depends on my Vig. Now, the probability of RW being scum is smallish, and in case of HSL is outright tiny. But imagine if he actually is scum. Everyone is reading them as Town, we're on the verge of losing and then I BAM! Vig him to snatch a win. Why, I'd be the hero talked about for years. And if I'm wrong then ooops gg.

By contrast there is little glory in Vigging scum!razza.

I'm not a pussy. I go for the hard win.

Not without going deeper into claims, most importantly babark's.

If Joe confirms I understand him correctly I'll explain.

Correct.

If I responded to that it would defeat the purpose of not going into details about RW.

It's supposed to read "That being said some potential recent findings are making me reconsider things once again". RW and babark outlasting Dessimu didn't make a whole lot of sense to me which threw a bit of a shadow on their claims. Then I realized Dessimu being NKed by scum actually may not be that non-sensical after all in which case my concerns may not be holding as much water as I thought. More so for RW than babark, though.

Official vote count

Joe 1 - catte 808
Dedo 1 - Joe 806
Razza 2 - zfr 738, rware 776

Not voting: babark, dedo, ambition, razza, hsl
Razza leads at L-3