Hello! Since I don't see you on the list of people playing on page one, it is very much okay for you to private message me directly if you would like to help me out. ^_^ I may have the avatar of a giant sea creature with eight arms and two tentacles, but I promise that I don't bite, drown people in the ocean, or make them play horribly dangerous games.


Let's have a moment of complete and total honesty. There will be zero deception and half-truths because I have a point to make about the FrostburnPhoenix and ZFR situation that should be taken entirely at face value.

1. Acronyms really do in fact give me a ton of trouble. I rarely use them for this reason. I'm using a sans-serif font at a larger size as it is easier to ready, but letters still sometimes just bleed into each other. I find it very hard to follow conversations when I keep seeing unfamiliar acronyms and unfamiliar jargon doesn't help things either. It really does look like a private conversation written in some super secret spy code that I don't know how to decipher. I don't know how else to describe it.


2. However because of the significant point that I am going to make next, I am going to say that I think ZFR was on to me when he seemed a bit insisted that I was at the more experienced end of the newer players after I said that I only played three games. I wasn't lying when I said that I only played three games on a 6-8 hour cycle about ten years ago.

I just didn't mention that I hated the 6-8 hour day/night cycle so much that I co-moderated a bunch after that and pushed for a 12-hour cycle where I wrote out all the death scenes. No sad lists of the dead when night actions were reported to me. Instead the day would start where someone would be found stabbed to death in their shower (in the style of Psycho), murdered by crop duster (North by Northwest), buried in a shallow grave under a flowerbed that a dog dug up (inspired by Rear Windows), fell to their death from a Ferris wheel (because The Third Man), or maybe they just disappeared completely after probably being tossed into the nearby lake. We tried a 24-hour cycle game, but there was so much impatience and whining over it taking so long. The site I played on hasn't been around in years.


3. As for the FrostburnPhoenix and ZFR situation more specifically. I found it extremely hard to follow, but this one post here really stuck out:
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/gog_mafia_76_trouble_in_the_lucas_arts_multiverse/post119

It may have been ten years since I played or moderated this game anywhere, but we had this one game that was super memorable just for the rule that came out of it. One of the Mafia withheld their vote on day one, implying that they had the Voteless Townie role. The actual Townies were enraged at the fact that one of their own couldn't vote that they sent the moderators private messages over it, resulting in a statement being made mid-game that the Voteless Townie role would be discontinued after that game. All games after that really did have a there is no Voteless townie rule, even after the lie was revealed.

Just because someone makes a statement that they revealed they have a role and offer to claim it, that doesn't mean that they'll give an honest answer about it. Technically we all have roles, even if that role is generic townie or mafia goon.

And another mafia tactic that I ran into on that site was to lay low and not post much in the mafia game thread while posting quite a bit in other threads. This way they would be seen but not in a way that attracted too much attention to themselves. So with that in mind, it might be a good idea to check as to who has and who has not been participating.

Good point. A few people do, but I doubt they will be sharing anything useful. Hence the rest of my statement stands in regards to the usual course for a day 1.

Quaint, but this anecdote does not make the scenario I presented unlikely nor unfeasible. This is most likely a survivorship bias for you now.


Sure, it's a possibility. Everything is possible.


It's called "risk and reward" for a reason.

See above.

Your point seems moot since at no point did I indicate that I think he should be lynched, yet it's curious you're trying to paint my argument this way. Like I said at the beginning, I just don't quite follow your point because it relies on too many assumptions that are backed by nothing but your certainty.

It's okay. I don't quite like how you're playing with probabilities and confidence either, but here we are.

My good sir, it seems to me that you have let your perception of my question of ZFR influenced by his rather interpretation that I was arguing for the above. I am not. Debate is worth just for debate's sake, especially when wild speculation runs rampant.

I don't remember exactly why this format. It's just additional info I added in brackets. I guess I was typing it out, realised the slip only works with 3 (or more) so added it.

I'm curious though now why you think that's important.


Exactly. Huge risk, tiny reward. Ergo unlikely.

I'm not trying to paint your argument any way. Just reinforcing my point.
It's curious you're trying to paint me trying to paint your argument this way.

Wha'choo talkin' 'bout, Willis? We right-out-the-gate-ed that:

Your story was awesome! Thanks for sharing it. For what it's worth (FWIW) I find that play perfectly legitimate and I don't see why a rule had to be placed to ban the role (but the way you mods did it was proper, so good job with that). Know that we have pretty wild games here and it's not too rare for some setup to turn out broken in some way the mod didn't anticipate, favoring one side or the other. People get slightly annoyed about it but in the end brush and laugh it off, meme about and make fun of the mod/players who fell victim to said unbalances.

Anyway, I feel that both ZFR and Frostburn are more like Town than scum. I suppose ZFR may also be the Neutral role he mused about. The last bit is mostly why I feel he isn't scum. If it was just the "gotcha" at Frostburn he'd probably lean a bit more towards the scummy side but not right now. As I said earlier I can totally see how one can read the game's intro as all scum having special powers and Frostburn's knee-jerk reaction to claim he has a power feels like a newbie Townie who misstopped and overcorrected afterwards. I'm not certain in my read here as Frostburn doesn't exactly behave like a lost Townie, they seem to have some experience (I believe they said they followed past games) so it may be a façade but on surface level doesn't feel like one. I suppose the whole thing can be staged by both of them but that seems like a stretch.

I had a couple of small pings that bugged me about Catte and at one point I was thinking he'd end up being my non-RVS vote but I can't recall what it was at this moment (I will go back to re-read when I have more spare time during the weekend as I know it's there somewhere)

Right now I'm most concerned about Babark. He has exactly 3 posts out of which 2 are votes. The second one was allegedly supposed to remove one RVS (Random Voting Stage) so there aren't 2 on the same person (RW) but was replaced with something that appears equally RVS as the first at a point where we were sort of leaving that part of D1 (Day 1). I was told this isn't Babark's first rodeo so this is obviously not a Townie who doesn't know what to do - it's either a lurky scum or a disinterested Town. Either way I don't like that and agree that a push is perfectly warranted.


vote Babark


The rest of the cast are either new players which I don't want to vote for Today or middling ones which I would vote for to avoid NL (No-Lynch).

Oh, yeah. Joe also gave me some weird vibes with his psychoanalyst-y questions. That feels new or at least I don't remember him doing it before but I always give Joe a bit extra leeway because he's beautifully weird and weirdly beautiful.

I reread original post again, in case it wasn't clear...

I mean my point is *exactly* about risk and reward. Here it is again:

Mafia have to either do something about Town!PR [reward] or leave him and have his PR possibly interfering [risk].


What is it you don't follow?

I just remembered this morning that Lift in his previous game gave Mafia a fake-claim (i.e. a role that is definitely not appearing for Town, so won't be counterclaimed). trent also claimed prematurely in that game, and as it turned out it's because he was eager to use the fake claim.

Could something have happened here too? Could the presence of a fake claim the reason Frost assumed it's role madness and the reason he wanted to claim early? I don't think so, to be honest, but it's something to keep in mind.

PS, thanks for sharing the story. I think a voteless modifier is nice if balanced properly (like only happens on specific Days). Regardless, mods shouldn't be sent enraged private messages while a game is running (and mods shouldn't respond with anything more than 'oho').

Reward is not tiny at all. If it pays off, town is in total chaos. Ergo just as likely as many other risky plays. It's a game of risk at the end of the day.

This is quite a lame "no, you!" argument. Sir, it is very much what you're implying. Are we reading the same posts?

Do you now?

Oh, so if they leave him there's a risk in who knows what role interfering (if it even has an active nightly component), and there can be no other scenarios and scheming to go along with this, right? This is an imperative, as if the rules of the engagement are predetermined, right?

It's not that you're wrong. It's that you're painting a possibility as an imperative, which makes your justification mighty sus.

It would be pretty funny if what you describe happened and Frost was a bomb though.

Your utmost confidence in presenting a possible outcome as a for sure thing. The game of mafia is kind of like life itself. It never quite pans out how you plan it to.

Haha, we've had a rule resulting from a situation in a specific game, but it was only discussed after the game was over. IMO it's a big no-no for the mod to respond to player speculation while the game is going.

Oooohhhh, my partner recently taught me this reference and it's now one of my favorite!


Yes, I remember reading that now. Apologies. I am satisfied. :D It's probably the very family friendly vocab that put it out of mind.

Interesting. I'll note it down somewhere.

Nope. I never wrote it is an imperative. I wrote it is a risk. Which it is. Here is my exact quote again.

"If Frost is Town, Mafia will have to do something about him at Night, or risk his PR interfering with them."

Are you saying leaving a TownPR alive is not a risk for Mafia?

Can you point out where I presented "a possible outcome as a sure thing".

I wrote they have to either deal with a Town PR or they don't deal with it and risk his interference. What's not to follow here?

I did NOT write: "Mafia will definitely deal with TownPR". Nor did I write: "Mafia will definitely NOT deal with TownPR and risk interference". I just presented possibilities of what choice Mafia will be faced with.

(again, read the quote above. Or did you feel it implied that Mafia will be forced to deal with TowPR!Frost?)

yeah I know this is taking ages. One more question - what did you think dedo meant at first:

?

Nothing. I completely couldn't understand the question.