You conveniently 'forgot' to add yourself to either group. Yes, I know you will claim that you know that you are town. But still, you are in the 'everyone else' group. You even are, all alone, in the 'not voting at all' group. You explained that you'd only vote trent to avoid no-lynch. Fair enough. Trent spared you the need of doing that. But you didn't vote at all. You didn't even vote me, even though I was your top pick. Why? The deadline was quite close, the disadvantage of no-lynch had been discussed. So why didn't you, other than everyone else, vote?

"Conveniently"? Don't be silly. You're better than this, Lift. If you asked anyone, hell, if I asked you where the scum would be, you wouldn't put yourself in a "the scum is among these players" list. Don't try to make it as if it's something indicative of Mafia.

I was actually going to vote when I made my final post for the previous Day. "Wait, so 7PM UTC? That'll be like 9PM my time? Cool, when I leave work at 6PM, I can check the game on my phone or tablet and vot- wait wait wait trent self-hammered? Yuck, why did you do this trent?"

I'll admit it was my fault for not putting the chips on the table the day before when I had the chance. But whatever the outcome was going to be, I was determined to vote before deadline. I just never got the chance.

Actually, I'm with Lift on this one. I would include myself in a "scum is amongst these players" list, as without any undeniable proof, the rest of town should be considering me amongst the suspects.

is someone who doesn't do it more likely to be mafia?

Not necessarily, I'm just stating how I would approach the same situation.

Are people called Joe more likely to be mafia?

Yes.

@Pookina: you didn't write 'the other scum is among these players'. You wrote 'the other scum is among everyone else. That group [referring to 'everyone else'] being: ...'

Now, even if you argue that you don't want to include yourself in 'possible scum' lists (contrary to what other players do), you definitely are part of 'everyone else' in the way you wrote it. But you omitted yourself from the 'not voting trent' group.

See the difference? Yes, if you asked me whom I suspect as scum, I wouldn't suspect myself. But if you asked me who voted trent, I would include myself in that group!

Also, your reaction to my post is quite interesting. "Don't be silly. You're better than this,..." That reads quite defensive.

BINGO! You know you're not scum (whether you know or "know" is debatable). Therefore, you don't include yourself in a list titled the other scum is among everyone else, even if you are technically part of "everyone else." Even then, this is mostly semantics, and still something that...doesn't really change the way I see someone? If you include yourself in a list of "alignment unknowns" or not is of little relevance because by default you'll always claim to be Town, whether you are in fact Town or scum. So attacking me for such a reason feels like an extremely weak strategy, doesn't it?

Refer to the above logic to see why I reacted that way. Even then, what's wrong with being defensive? Mafia is just as much about the defense as it is about the offense.

Sorry mates, I had an extremely tiring day yesterday (IRL) and felt sick on top of it, which is why when I got home I couldn't even reply to stuff I knew I had pending. That is how 12 hours turned into more than 24.
Back to the game now.

I meant that in the sense that, opposed to you and the rest of the Trent voters, I didn't see much to think him scum. So in this scenario I believed in when I wrote that post scum!Trent hadn't fooled you but he fooled me enough that I wouldn't say he was scum when several others were more "certain" of it (as far as D1 certainty goes).
Of course this was all based on a wrong assumption to begin with.

***********************************************************************
So, I said I wanted to ISO Joe's D1, and I did.

His first post with any substance is #149. Townreads Dedo and Korotan, muses about ZFR and comes to "inconclusive", and dislikes Lift and Trent's arguments in the whole in the whole D1NL-gate. (Which, if he had put a bit more weight on it, would tie him to ZFR)

#211: after some small questions like "how much conviction do you have for that", he townclears Dedo and Pooka, thinks Korotan town, likes ZFR's theory of a Lift+Joppo scumteam, and votes Nmillar

#216-218: says that Lift and Trent ganged up on ZFR and clarified as "they were elbowing each other out of the way to give you a hard time over statistics and no lynches and this and that"

#230: argues with Dedo what is wrong with giving TownCredit for someone based on flimsy reasons.

#271: close to EoD. He doesn't like Trent's post ("when I flip town lynch ZFR please") but can't be sure if it's town!Trent or scum!Trent.

#271-281: A lot of back-and-forth with Dedo about what is wrong with clearing Dedo for the wrong reasons.

#295: The Day is over.

What I get from this is that he sides with ZFR in most issues, which could be a few things obviously. I think scum!Joe would be careful not to get involved with matters involving scum!ZFR, but if Joe is scum he could be sneakingly trying to buddy up to a townie with sway above the average. So if Joe is Mafia I think it likely that ZFR is Town.
If Joe is town however, that says nothing of ZFR's alignment.

@Joe: how much would you say you're confident in ZFR's townness?

The only other thing he dedicated more posts to was his clearing of Dedo. I see no leads towards Mafia or Town in either side, but props go to Dedo for not accepting that easy undeserved towncred.

Lastly, I wanna point out that we're totally not looking at Nmillar and Micro. Lurkers are dangerous if Mafia. We'd better not forget about them.

(BTW this post doesn't considers any developments from #330 forward. I still have to read those but decided to throw this out there now because I promised to come back a long time ago)

Hmm I see that Nmillar has called himself out on his and Micro's lurkiness. That is good and gives him a few townpoints.

But it doesn't make him Town. He even says how disappointed he was that no one had called him out yet. A scum!Nmillar would know that he could only ride that wave for so long, and if he had taken too long to surface then Town would be pretty critical of him.

Bucktooth got a few townpoints for me due to his #335. It may look like "reverse OMGUS", but a scum!BTG could just not say anything and let ZFR continue focused on me. It would be an easy way to keep both of us from concentrating on the Mafia members (unless he is scum with ZFR, which also makes less sense to me than other theories)

I don't follow this sorry, what do you mean?

hahaha, you make me sound like a lunatic. Just clarifying that I liked zfr's theory because it made me think zfr was town. Not because I thought there was merit to it.

fairly confident in zfr's township. He was the one who I was going to put on the list yesterday but then I remembered that I'd just given him a hard time about his approach to bucktooth so I should see his reaction before throwing him on the town pile.

Then the way he responded, and especially the "but I don't want to distract people from this joppo thing I found" make we think of town zfr who is doing scum hunting. On the pile with him!

ZFR asked me how it is possible that I say scum!Trent fooled me when I did not read him as town. I said that he fooled me in the sense that I didn't find him scummy enough to rate him far ahead of others in my scumscale. So I did not vote him, as opposed to ZFR, Dedo, Nmillar, Gym, Korotan and Lift, who were not fooled at all. Except that all of this relied on an assumption of Trent being scum that crumbled like a tissue tower on a rainstorm when the flip came.

Hey, your words, I just summarized them. You lunatic, you! :-)

Hmmm yeah, I can see your train of thought. I guess I need to recheck this response if it was clear enough on its intent to give him a townlean in your eyes.

Why?

Vote joppo

Joe makes me suspicious, but I can't put my finger on anything. I have a weak scum lean on Lift: after *two* people (nmillar and dedo) pointed out toDay Morning to bucktooth that his "assumption" that there are two Mafiosi is in fact a fact, Lift still felt the need to hammer the point home. I also don't like his nitpicking on Pooka.

bucktooth and dedo and GH I feel Towny. No particular read on Pooka aside from residue Towniness from the derpclear yesterDay, though that residue is getting smaller as time goes by. nmillar and Micro are lurking, though as I said, I won't be voting anyone "to avoid a no-lynch" as long as we have a free NL we can make use of.

I'm alive? The test went well, and came out inconclusive, so we're waiting on biopsies to show stuff (no tumors, but also nothing obvious anywhere). The next handful of days I'll be too busy to be active much, at least until the end of the week. If Catte wants to sub me out I will understand, or if you all do, but I'll try and post as i have time.
Just don't expect any long flavoury posts.

Also, I thought we were gonna NL on D2 because odds?

Anyway, I side with Pooks in the spat with lift from this page, but I haven't read anything since EOD except the very top of page 8.
the post right above me ZFR is voting joppo, which is...odd.

@ZFR how many times can we NL if we hit scum toDay?

Also, y'all dropped the ball on trent. Even I could tell he was nowhere close to being scummy enough to pursue. Pfffft.
https://media1.tenor.com/images/e3e7ec142988d5eb7b899025a87af4ef/tenor.gif
(Yes, I left my vote on Pooka. I should have unvoted, probably? I had no real suspects but wanted to appear "active" for future days' reference. Maybe I can vote "present"?)