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General discussionGOG Mafia #71(838 posts)(838 posts)
(838 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted November 23, 2020
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ZFR: Also, Joe, nmillar, bucktooth... same question to you. Stop lurking please.
Do you see bucktooth as lurking?
Posted November 23, 2020
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ZFR: Also, Joe, nmillar, bucktooth... same question to you. Stop lurking please.
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dedoporno: Do you see bucktooth as lurking?
...

I meant Micro.

Not sure why I wrote bucktooth.
Posted November 23, 2020
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ZFR: OK. If it's going to cause a decrease of anyone's enjoyment of the game for whatever reason, I retract my D1 NL request. I won't ask for it again.

With that in mind, do you have anything, reads or otherwise. I understand you had a busy weekend, but now that you're back let's get those social interactions started?

(PS, it just occured to me we mind end up with a D1 NL organically... we seem to often do).


@trent, same question for you. Any reads? You mentioned you don't like making it a game of statistics, so go ahead.

Also, Joe, nmillar, bucktooth... same question to you. Stop lurking please.
So far no one but you at the moment has made my eyebrows raise, so my reads are MEH for everyone else.
Posted November 23, 2020
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dedoporno: The main issue with this approach is the morality of it. We basically sit down and wait for someone to die so we get a small statistical improvement out if it and that kind of sucks for that one player.
The scum will likely NK whether we NL (D1 or any other "day) or not, so that player will be out of the game anyways.
Posted November 23, 2020
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GymHenson: The scum will likely NK whether we NL (D1 or any other "day) or not, so that player will be out of the game anyways.
They will certainly kill. The point is that making a conscious decision to no-lynch more or less ends the day as soon as everyone or at least
enough people have agreed and nothing else will come out of it. The one player is effectively sacrificed willingly as there wasn't really an active attempt to find the scummiest player of the bunch and the scum get that one kill for "free" (as in they don't have to answer for anything they've done on D1).
Posted November 23, 2020
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joppo: That's because, much as D1 is a day where Town runs at random like a headless chicken, so is a D2 after NL. Whereas with any later days ending in NL Town will still have the current Day's posts to cross against the previous wagons.
(Underlining mine)

That's one good reason (imo) to do the NL early on as ZFR seems to now advocate: We know so little on D1 that there's a higher chance we'll choose wrong and mislynch....so it makes some sense to do the NL on one of the earlier "days" & then try for a lynch on the next "day".
Posted November 23, 2020
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GymHenson: The scum will likely NK whether we NL (D1 or any other "day) or not, so that player will be out of the game anyways.
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dedoporno: They will certainly kill. The point is that making a conscious decision to no-lynch more or less ends the day as soon as everyone or at least
enough people have agreed and nothing else will come out of it. The one player is effectively sacrificed willingly as there wasn't really an active attempt to find the scummiest player of the bunch and the scum get that one kill for "free" (as in they don't have to answer for anything they've done on D1).
Yes, it's effectively an N0 kill.
Posted November 23, 2020
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dedoporno: They will certainly kill. The point is that making a conscious decision to no-lynch more or less ends the day as soon as everyone or at least enough people have agreed and nothing else will come out of it.
That is why it's good (imo) to have as much talk as possible before ANY NL occurs....and not just rush to it.....then there's more posts and interactions to analyze the next "day".

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dedoporno: The one player is effectively sacrificed willingly as there wasn't really an active attempt to find the scummiest player of the bunch and the scum get that one kill for "free" (as in they don't have to answer for anything they've done on D1).
Again, they will get that kill for free anyways...as it's not very likely(dunno the exact numbers, but it's likely very low) we will find a scum on D1 if we choose to lynch.

And as for people saying we would have little to analyze on D2 if we NL D1, I say we would have things to analyze the next day: The NK target(and their posts/interactions on D1), and also everyone else's posts on D1 as well.

(Not pushing for D1 NL btw.....mostly just musing on the viability and possible good aspects of such, if such were pursued)
Posted November 23, 2020
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GymHenson: Again, they will get that kill for free anyways...as it's not very likely(dunno the exact numbers, but it's likely very low) we will find a scum on D1 if we choose to lynch.
That's the point. If a lynch happens there will be that extra information that you don't get doing NL. People would have to defend their choice in case a mislynch, especially if someone pushed too hard for a weak reason. This is what I mean when I say "for free".

Or on a successful lynch which is unlikely but still possible, you'll probably end up with a couple of people that now look that much better because of the way they [inter]acted around others and the lynchee.
Posted November 23, 2020
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dedoporno: That's the point. If a lynch happens there will be that extra information that you don't get doing NL. People would have to defend their choice in case a mislynch, especially if someone pushed too hard for a weak reason. This is what I mean when I say "for free".
True, we'd have that extra info to look into.....but that's more helpful IF people analyze it.

(I say this as in a prior game or two, hardly anyone did any analysis at all after the wagons)

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dedoporno: Or on a successful lynch which is unlikely but still possible, you'll probably end up with a couple of people that now look that much better because of the way they [inter]acted around others and the lynchee.
True, but then couldn't some of that could be WIFOM(correct term for what i'm thinking of here?) and be scum setting us up to fall with their prior posts?

+++
+++

All the above aside, a query to all: I know what most of y'all think of a D1 NL....but what about a D2 NL?

Lift, Trent, Dedo, etc....what are your thoughts on the above(D2 NL)?
Posted November 23, 2020
OK. About reads. Not much yet, this being D1. But:

yes, Micro is definitely lurky. And so is nmillar. Lurky is bad.

ZFR's insistence on discussing a D1 NL, ignoring that that just extends the D1 misery - even though that, among other effects, has been discussed in may previous games, is ... well, ZFR. He is the type to get stuck in one of his number games and arguing for the arguments sake, without considering whether what he discusses for is actually a good idea. So, NAI. Would scum ZFR play like this? Yes. If he saw an opportunity for extending the 'Town in the dark' D1, he would do so. But Town-ZFR would also play like this, if he sees a slight mathematical advantage somewhere. Neutral.

What is interesting is, that Korotan went along with it immediately, even voting No-lynch, without really considering if that's a good idea. That seems to be an example of 'follow the leader'. Now the question is, is it because Korotan is new and was looking for an experienced player to latch onto? Or is Korotan scum, following an active Towny, to just sail in his wake? I have the feeling it might be the latter. Especially since this isn't Korotan's first game and he wasn't a bad player in the last game! So I don't think he would need to latch onto a strong player out of insecurity. Leaning scum.

Joe is just posting nonsense. As usual on D1. And that makes him look a bit scummy. As usual. Also, him referring to himself as goon looks off. It reeks a bit of 'me Baka, watcher of Kalunga' or 'I'm Slytherin'. So, leaning scum.

dedo plays along with Joe's flirting with being goon with a 'bitch I might be'. Is this the usual interplay between these two? Or is it scummy playfulness? Is one or both of them toting their gooniness openly, having fun mocking Town a bit? Somehow dedo's 'bitch I might be' feels less off that Joe's 'like a goon'. Still, I'm wary of dedo.

Bucktooth: what he writes gives the impression of an actual attempt to determine the best course for Town. Could of course be faked, but I read him as genuine and leaning Town.

Gym is his usual self. Trying to make sense of the game in his usual way. Neutral for now.

trent is himself too. His reaction to ZFR's suggestion to make the game less fun was very trent-y. Neutral.

Pooka: scummy. The statement 'I am myself' is strange. Since I am not. My PM says otherwise. His solid Town-reading of ZFR is a bit strange too, because 'scum ZFR wouldn't risk such a discussion.' We all have learned in the past, that scum do risky thing precisely to appear Towny because 'scum wouldn't do that'.
Posted November 24, 2020
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Lifthrasil: OK. About reads. Not much yet, this being D1. But:
...
You left out joppo?
Posted November 24, 2020
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GymHenson: All the above aside, a query to all: I know what most of y'all think of a D1 NL....but what about a D2 NL?
To me no-lynch in general is more of a "do it when you need to" thing rather than "do it because you can get away with doing it". Ideally we never reach the point where we should go for it because that means we are in a problematic situation so I don't like planning for it actively. If we reach a state where we should do it I'm all for it but there is no real benefit in thinking about how I'm going to use it in the future it right now. It's a distraction from the more pressing matters of finding actual scum.
Posted November 24, 2020
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ZFR: Also, Joe, nmillar, bucktooth... same question to you. Stop lurking please.
I think dedo's town. I had a quick read yesterday and he said something which I thought about this morning and thought he probably doesn't say that as mafia but I forgot what it was now.

korotan I'm sure is town. he says "maybe I need to play as mafia to understand" and I accept that.

zfr is this the sort of stuff he does when I town read him usually? no I think this stuff is not alignment indicative for zfr. He could be mafia.

I don't like lift's insinuation that calculating probabilities isn't fun and trent's insinuation that zfr wants to dictate the whole game by numbers

I don't like my new picture either it's got no vivre

sorry, I've been busier than I imagined I would be. I'll try and sneak some time at work tomorrow if I can
Posted November 24, 2020
it was sunday, i was afk from the time i got up until just before collapsing into bed. lurky is expected then.

also, i will be tied up (not literally) nearly all day thursday (Thanksgiving), most of friday and saturday. On Sundays, i am never around between 8-2 EST (NYC time--that's not where I live, thankfully) and Dec 1, I expect to be afk because that is the day of my dad's tests (finally. we are hoping and praying that they find out what is going on, and that it is nothing horrid.)
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionGOG Mafia #71(838 posts)(838 posts)
(838 posts)