This game btw, seems like I forgot most of it lol

Need a post from Koro. By most signs he's the Medic and I'm happy to be honest it turned out him because otherwise with his lurkiness he'd be a major distraction.

Cool so this is current game state, italicized two conditional clears dependent on koro showing up

GH (Cleared)
Engerek01 (Cleared)
ZFR (Cleared)
bucktoothgamer (Cleared)
flubbucket (Unsure, might be medic)
[i]Korotan (Cleared once he confirms ZFR intuition and flub doesn't counterclaim)
[/i][i]Catte (Cleared once Koro confirms he had a robot try to crawl up him last night)
[/i]

Nemo judex aside, having thought it over, I think I have a strong case that I'm actually cleared. While the lack of counterclaim on D2 is not conclusive and can still indicate a ruse by scumMe and scumTrent, the fact that Joe confirmed Trent infesting me makes the ruse unlikely.

Here is my reasoning.

Assuming ZFR and trent are scum, and they made a ruse.

First no one counterclaimed my infection on D2, this requires the following ruse:
Ruse Level 1: trent takes no action. ZFR claims he got infected.
Losses: trent wastes a shot of his abilities (which, in a PR madness game is pretty powerful since it's a permablock)
Gains: ZFR gains credibility.

However, since Joe confirmed visiting me, this requires a further rus:
Ruse Level 2: trent actually infects ZFR. ZFR makes his claim.
Further losses compared to level 1: ZFR loses his ability N1 at least. With a chance of losing permanently if the Medic is killed.
Further gains compared to level 1: On the off chance a Tracker/Watcher confirms actions, ZFR gets more credibility.

So, while a ruse is possible, do you actually see the jump from level 1 to level 2 as possible? We're losing a second member's ability, perhaps permanently, for the dubious gain of getting confirmed by Watcher/Tracker - a person whose existance we couldn't even know about and even if he existed there was a good chance he tracks/watches someone else.
And this in a PR madness game: one where we know the Town is armed to the teeth and so every shot of our own abilities is worth its weight in gold.

Ah I hadn't considered any of those, but don't you think we should occam's razor it first? Those two possibilities seem complex to me at least. Fwiw I'm very rusty on games and definitely know nothing meta.

Why complex? Kill + ability when one scum remains was seen in games. And as for genderbender, what has Eng done to confirm him non-scum?

Precisely the reason I wanted to investigate him. I figured that even if it just cleared him he'd be a useful player to clear.

I did already say that I accepted level 2 as highly unlikely. Accepting something as highly unlikely and ruling it out completely are not the same thing though.
While I'm happy to focus the search for scum elsewhere because of probability, I do not accept you as mechanically cleared. It's semantics really, I'll call you "cleared" if it makes you happy.

Yes and yes.

I certainly wasn't expecting to be treated as cleared when koro comes online, it would just confirm I was using my power on him.

Did you notice Eng's wording when claiming their win condition?
"I guess that makes me practically town."
Surely a townie knows they're town?

1. Might be so, I am self admittedly bad at meta so it seemed like a complex idea to me.
2. His gender bending helped town catch one scum? I'm not too sure once again, it's just that him being scum requires thinking in non-simple terms where we have a 4 member scum team with a fake claim provided by mod and a also possible third party scum in form of lyncher based on your role.

I ought to just re-look at things tomorrow morning to be sure.

I answered that. I thought you understood it.

Understand and believe are two different things. There's a chance it was a slip which you then tried to cover up.
And I have to say, your answer didn't exactly explain why you said it makes you "practically town".
That didn't read as part of the paraphrased section from your PM to me, it seemed like your own commentary about what that win condition meant.

Because the PM was 4 parts and I was asked only for the win condition by Gym. So I only read the win condition section while answering to him. I only checked the town part after you mentioned, which was a long text and it started with "you are town..."

At least I didn't consult Trent before answering ;)

OK, but you called bucktooth cleared. He's not mechanically cleared either.

You're right. But the idea of btg being scum and using a power on the same target as dedo seems even less likely than a Level 2 ruse from you, at least to my mind. btg is "cleared" but moreso than you even.

Really? I can easily think of a scum role that targets the same player who gets NKed. Off the top of my head: Watcher. I can see scum NKing an X and at the same time Watching him to see they catch more PRs that way. If I think longer I bet I could think of a few more.

But anyway, let's assume that scum!btg's role get absolutely no benefit whatsoever from targeting the same player who got NKed. Why aren't you assuming, like in my case, that it's a ruse done to gain credibility on the off-chance he get watched/tracked?

So you believe that scum team wasting TWO shots (mine, perhaps permanently, and trent's) solely for the purpose of getting credibility on the off chance we get tracked/watched doesn't earn me "cleared", but scum team wasting one shot (btg's) solely for the purpose of getting credibility on the off chance he get tracked/watched does. btg is more cleared then me?

I was going to wait for Koro to appear, but I don't believe I should.

Vote catte