Thanks for the info/replies.

If I may ask one more thing: could you reiterate your reasons for Gogtrial not being viable?

(I sometimes "blank out" when reading long posts and end up skimming such posts as a result in a number of games.....so I would appreciate at least a short summed up answer to the new question above, if you could oblige)

-------------

(Bump please)

Thanks for the replies as well.

O-kee do-kee....new questions(if I may): What do you think specifically of Catte not replying to my vote(even if it is an RVS vote) on them at all?

I am wondering if it could also be Catte is distracted a bit IRL or online in general....that could also be a viable possibility. What do you think?

Why not comic sans or webdings? Then it might at least be more fun to type it out. ;)

(Also sorry to hear you're stressed out IRL)

Which "fluff post" of yours do you think I'm talking about here?
Why do you think I'm talking about you at all? Because I referenced Catte's fluff post, which was the trigger for me "manufacturing an argument", which I thought was what we were talking about...

Yes. Yes "scum" (anti-town), No "mafia" (answered previously in #157). Yes.
Game #67, post #84 might be a useful reference, where I posted a similar thing, and was town. (Which of course doesn't prove that I'm town now, but does invalidate the LAMIST argument in my eyes.) You might also notice you having read that post before, as evidenced by you responding in post #85. In general, I'd advice you to reread our interactions on D1 of #67, and compare.

I did not read it as such. If I had, I wouldn't have brought it up as you being positive about me, to ask what changed.

You are aware that this is a complete logical fallacy, right? The sky is blue. Therefore, everything that's blue is the sky.
I applaud you being aware of your biases, and trying to counter them, but you're overcompensating tremendously. (The question for me is, are you doing so because you're a misguided townie, or because you're scum trying to get rid off me.)

Where did I "back off"?

Joe was my first - and so far only - real lov^H^H^Hvote. (I don't think dedo saw that, did he?)

You didn't answer this question of mine:
And I notice the contrast with #67...

After Lift's #152, and dedo's #154, you engaged with Lift a bit as well ( #173). Dedo then voted Lift ( #189), and both you and dedo have continued your back and forth with Lift since then.

I'm noticing that you're not engaging dedo at all, but that it's you and dedo both questioning Lift. I'm also noticing your vote is still on Phaolo.

Could you... clarify what your current thinking on that situation is?

Also, as someone who has been "questioning" me, what do you think of microfish's overt attempts to get a wagon going on me, e.g.
For the record, am I one of your preferred wagons for today?

To clarify, the question "For the record, am I one of your preferred wagons for today?" is directed to Vitek, not to microfish.

*blinks* For real?
How often have you played together with trent?

I think it unusual for Catte to not respond at all. He did mention being in a bad mood the one day (i think due to IRL?) and setting the game aside, but there have been several days since then.

@catte please comment about this matter. Are you scum? this line is not a vote.

Webdings is notoriously hard to read and I don't know if GOG could interpret it.

Thanks.

+++

The forum ate my post so i'm typing this in word. hopefully i'll remmember it all.
if you check Catte's fluff post, you notice that he was referring to me, so i didn't know which fluff post you meant. Sorry, my brain was / is tired. We were talking about the Catte post and I dropped the ball.

Thank you for your answers. Sorry for the bother of asking what you'd already answered.

The reason I saw it as LAMIST was that it has been drilled into my head that saying "i've always been town, so i am now" is bad, and even "i expect everyone to think I am" is also...questionable, because if the logic that says your previous roles say nothing about your current one, than the same should apply to everyone's perception of everyone else.
Maybe I was trying too hard to find something to pick apart, but I'd almost rather try too hard than not try at all. I honestly thought I had something for a moment. :-(

i shall reread 67 D1, I hope.

okay, i'd wanted to make that point in case there was misunderestanding by you or anyone as to what i meant.

You are right, I didn't check the vote count and thought you had voted for another after Joe Maybe I'm being snookered by you, in which case i tip my hat to you.

Ah. I see, i think, how it is a fallacy? But as there is some historical basis for my theory, I will continue to keep it in mind, while admitting that volume of talking does not equal scumminess of the talker.
I'll try and overcompensate less. I know that I have previously been accused of being too wary of being pocketed and thus not always listening to reason (I think it was mentioned in the Lift vs. Joppo game?), but I fear that the one time I let my gaurd down, some nasty scummy person will swoop right in, pick me up, and drop me in his/her pocket where I'll be stuck for the rest of the game, maybe not even struggling futilely to get out. However, thank you for pointing this flaw out; i'll work on it. If you could provide further details of how I am overcompensating, it would be useful. (If i became convinced that you were town, i'd be doing everything i could to not attic you.)

I saw your question, but as my answer hasn't changed, I wasn't sure if it was worthy of a response for the same reasons I enumerated then. However, especially right now, boring is good. if only IRL was stress-free, I'd be set. (if that is too wordy for your tastes, i state that I'm a honourable citizen of the town, if a very tired one atm.)

GN all.

PS: Gogtrial is not my preffered vote. I said I would prefer gogtrial over NL. I'd almost prefer anyone but Micro to NL. I'm sticking to Joe for now. I was commenting in that instance on how a lot of people seem to be questioning gogtrial, more so than others. Maybe Catte is a better choice for NL, as GH seems to try to imply. Maybe I should switch from my focus on gogtrial to catte. I don't know. Atanyrate it is not and never was a "gogtrial is my 1st choice" thing.

@gogtrial, see my post 90, where i laid out reasons as to why i believe trent could be scum and reasons for the reverse.. I have a hard time reading him. i could argue that he was or wasn't scum, and idk which argument i'd believe. rereading my comments, it appears that i never actually asked if Trent would ever support a fellow scummate if they had a teeny bit of suspicion on them. He isn't afraid to bus, I know, but idk if he saw someone wrongly attacking --especially if they were attacking a teammate, if he'd support that teammate, if not to the hilt.
My full quote is and until that is answered, I hypothesize what i said above but still wonder.

As to how many times? so far 57t 59t 60t 61t 64t 65t 67(M) and i didn't analyze trent post-game to see how he played, so i don't know.

PPS: i've been focussing on you because you have replied to me more than others and given me things to talk about, which is more than many have done -- other than GH, and I really cannot tell GH's alignment on D1.

GN all for reals this time

Careful, we don't want to make Joe and Dedo jealous.

Having had a re-read, I'm getting the scummiest vibes from Lift and Micro, primarily for the same reasons as other players have already pointed out.

Let's also throw gogtrial into the mix, and there you have my prediction for the scum team.

I've also got an idea for someone who has already cleared themselves as town, based on something they have mentioned that is similar to my role PM, but need to put some more thought into it.

I had no reason to engage dedo in that argument so far. I basically agree with what he wrote and tehre was no need to react to it.

I found Lift's post very strange when he made it and his current claims that he didn't meant it that way sound very unconvincing so far but I am still waiting there is possible explanation of his thinking when he made it.

Phaolo vote is leftover, I have no intent to lynch him (right now).
I think I would be willing to lynch Lift until there is good explanation for his actions.

Preferred? Not. I think I would be with some reservations willing to support your lynch if push came to shove but you are not my option number one. While I don't agree with your "manufacturing" I am willing to accept it as different view on game and not necessarily scummy one. People should be lynched for scummy behaviour and not every differing one or one others don't understand should be automatically be basis for lynch. Currently I have bigger problem with your posts "listen to what I tell you and everything will be fine" aimed at Phaolo.

I am currently most interested in trent because I still find his statement off, even more considering you never were proper mafia and it feels like he is avoiding explaining it a bit.
Then it would be Joe who seems to be very off his game and acted bit jumpy so far but it is hard to get better read tehre as he seems to be very busy outside the game and it could possibly be used as excuse for his behaviour.
Lift would be my number 3 ATM I think.

As for Micro, do you feel like he is making over attempts to lynch you? I see him arguing him with you and it could be said you both are investing similar energy in it so maybe you are the one making overt attempts toget wagon going on him. ;-) (are you?)
So far I find Micro arguing with you to be similar to way he did in #67, my only experience with him and he tended to get too invested in his arguments there as well and to be contrarian to himself so I am bit wary of calling him scummy for it as there it was useful to our mafia team and it is possible it is same here. I can't deny I find some of his point a bit doubtful though (stating how you are likely wagon and later backign off).

Wait what? Is this about GH's RVS vote? I couldn't think of anything funny to respond with at the time and given that it's an RVS vote it didn't really occur to me that it needed addressing since.

*shrugs* That's an inherent risk when giving any advice to a newbie - I'd rather get him up to speed now, rather than let scum play him at lylo.

He feels qualitatively different to me; he was more... deferential in #67, and really stuck in his ways now. I can't figure out if that's just his playstyle growing, with some OMGUS-feeling from me due to being the target, or something more nefarious.
I had him town-leaning at one point (after #166), and then he went straight on to bringing up "the consensus" that there were enough people to lynch me (#183) and got my hackles back up.
In #67, I was convinced that he had played me as mastermind scum, while he was innocent town, just like every time before. This time, if he's scum, it's not of the mastermind variety, which feels more likely to me, but that in itself is not a good argument for actually thinking him scum.

I can see each of your top three. Really hope Joe will return to us soon to participate some more, and for trent to answer the open question.

Hi there. Finally some net. I'm very busy during the weekend again. I'll try to reply tonight.

First off it is impossible for me to kill anyone, and that's too bad as I enjoy doing that in these games.

Creating an argument and creating an opening are not the same thing. Creating an opening is seeing someone else's statement or argument and using it against them, creating an argument is saying something to get reactions out of people. Could you be trying to create an argument to try and get someone to say something so you can use it against them? Yes you could, but I didn't get that vibe.

Could you put those reasons in your own words? (I'd like to know what you focus on - the way you've phrased it now feels very low-effort.)

Just to confirm, you see me as being scum with microfish? So you see our back and forth as ... some kind of show? Or am I just your third likeliest scum option, but not actually with microfish?

I think you took the wrong lesson from mafia #66 (which I assume is where this comes from).
Making a big performance out of "claiming town", completely without context (you, mafia #66, post #135, will get you a lot of scrutiny. Acknowledging that I'm not seen by everyone as town, as a result of an action I took (me, this game, post #98) - or responding to a newbie without context asking if I was trying to be seen as town (me, mafia #67, post #84) gets much less. We even had a discussion about this in #67. Context is everything, but more, what I'm doing is acknowledging explicitly that my usual play style gets me seen as scumhunting, and thus town, which might not always be warranted.

What I find interesting on rereading #67 is that you then actually responded to dedo about my statement, saying "not damning. After all, i made similar ones early in the previous game".

But then this feels like town-you.

Hmm, okay, you've only seen scum-trent once. I've seen him twice. In #55, his buddies were scene and Joe. In #67, his buddies were Carradice and Vitek. He never voiced a word of support for each of those buddies (that I recall; I skimmed the games a bit to find counterexamples, but didn't read carefully). He actively called them out on anything he saw as scummy (he might be more aware of these things because he *knows* for certain they are, which can be a way to catch him - possibly similarly to how he saw me as town because he knows me to be town?), and tended to be early on the voting train for each of them (with Vitek being the only exception, since Vitek never slipped).
So, consider the question answered: trent does not support his fellow scum.
Does that make you nervous?