Bah, I'm still not convinced his method is good for townies.
On one hand making people speak is more helpful than doing nothing, but starting arguments and fueling suspicions based on random hunches can be highly counterproductive.

But.. it could still be what gogtrial honestly believes is a good strategy as a townie.
Maybe who played with him before knows his method, but I've got nothing (I could technically analyze pages and pages of old games, but.. pls no).
I'll keep the vote, because overall he seemed the most controversial player among all to me, but who knows.. ¯\_(O_o)_/¯

This post is indeed a bit weird.
It's insinuating that Lifthrasil could be scum due to chances (metagaming bleh).
But it's asked as a casual question kinda in order to mask the intent.
And then Lifthrasil's obvious defensive reply is treated as "shading".
Feels a bit scummy.

(btw there are confusing replies by Lifthrasil too, like:
"I didn't say or even imply that anything was scummy about your question."
which seems at least partially insincere)

Uhh, ok. It doesn't feel out of the question for town!gogtrial to me. Hmmm, although it's a thing I've done as town before, I do also remember the frustration of a slow D1 as scum. Maybe that's what that was? I guess I just see it as NAI because I can see reasons for it on both sides.

No objection here.

Whuh? If you know someone's faction history then you can use it to make meta reads... given your level of experience I can't work out how you're forgetting/ignoring this.

JoeSapphire has let me know that he might be a bit busy.

Imagine it's an hour before the end of the day, and it becomes clear the votes aren't there to take me over the edge. Any secondary choices whose wagons you'd be happy to join in order to prevent no-lunch?

I'm not sure I understood this.
What's the problem if the votes stays, you're safe anyway..
There aren't other drawbacks, aren't they.

If we don't manage to lynch anyone at the end of the day, we don't gain any information. Scum kill a town player at night. We start tomorrow in the same situation we are in now, without any certain knowledge (assuming no PRs that come out with a positive result), but with one fewer town player, so with scum being even more able to sway votes their way.

That's a bad situation to be in. Worse than today. And yes, also worse than having mislynched a town player, because we won't have a wagon to analyze in the light of certain knowledge.

In order to prevent that, we always try (and still frequently fail) to successfully lynch someone on D1. As it's surprisingly hard to find an absolute majority of votes for someone, given that no one knows anything for certain, we need to know who everyone would be willing to vote for, not as their highest suspicion, but "to prevent nolynch". So, I'm asking you who your secondary targets are. Basically, name the top suspects you have the slighest scum-lean on, with it being understood that you prefer me above all of them.

Also: "me" being safe isn't the point. Mafia is a team game. I win if town wins.

Ah, you'd like to.. lynch someone in D1?
M-maybe it makes sense but.. is this a normal way of playing?
If townies are usually way more than scum, we'll have a bigger chance to select the wrong victim..

Anyway, I'd probably choose dedoporno as another suspect, but for the usual vague reasons in this day.

Musings/questions to all players:

I have been making some observations this game....more so than usual....but gotten few replies on said observations and musings.

Now I don't mind not being paid much attention to(it's par for the course for me on GOG), but imo players should try reading(or at least skimming) as many posts as possible(including mine) to see what others are thinking so they can help their team.

-----

Now Micro I give a bit of a pass on, as I made the reply to him not too long ago, but I also replied to the following people(among others) as well:

Nmillar and Lift a bit in post 181

My vote on Catte(not even a joke reply about it when I made the vote? o.0)

-----

So now(besides the stuff above), i'd like to hear from as many players as possible re: the following:
(in large part so we can see where everyone leans, and get more to sink our teeth into to find scum)

How do you lean me atm?

How do you lean Catte and Nmillar?

Who is your biggest suspect and also your most viable lynch candidate atm and why?

This is how it often is on D1....town goes in blind and has either one of two choices: Make a lynch and hope to hit scum, or not.

In the case of a lynch on D1, it's more likely that town will get hit....and if scum do a night kill(NK) we are down two town....but we can analyze who voted(or didn't) and why.

In the case of a nolynch on D1, we avoid possibly hitting a town, but we also lose a chance to hit scum and it's very likely they will still perform a NK.

----

So on D1 most people try to either go for one of their suspects or(barring that) at least someone they don't lean strongly as town.

----

Also: I'd like your answers to the questions in my last post (221) as well, if you have the time and like to answer them. :)

Yeah, no-lynch is generally considered bad on D1. No-lynch is generally only considered a good thing if it's a deliberate strategic move, which there are definitely reasons for later in the game. If it happens because of running out of time it's usually considered a bit of a failure. Whatever gogtrial's alignment, he's right that it's a good idea to have a backup plan.

There are certain situations that a no lynch is viable, but Day 1 is never one of them that I've seen. The nuances of why people push for a lynch or suspect someone is what is needed in finding scum. If no one lynched there is no way to gauge someone's behavior.

Is someone trying to distance themselves from someone being lynch because they know they will flip Town and don't any scrutiny on them? Is someone casting shade on other players to cause doubt and confusion? Is someone pushing and questioning to actually find answers or just trying to look busy?

You'll never know any of these answers if you don't lynch. There is a chance that a power role (someone that has a role other than vanilla is considered a power role) could help in someway to find scum, but it is never a good idea to rely on power roles to do the work.

Honestly for me I still have gogtrial as more than likely Town and everyone else as "Meh, I have no idea" so how do I lean you? Meh I have no idea

Catte and Nmillar, Meh I have no idea (except the little tingle I have on Nmillar, and that is not much)

Don't really have a biggest suspect, and everyone minus gogtrial is a viable lynch candidate right now because we don't have very much info.

Hi all, I'm back and trying to catchup the last 21 hours. I shall probably be...absent much of Saturday & Sunday, and probably will be absent all of Thursday next week, too. :(

Thank you.

Hmm, yes. Wll then, the sky is a lovely shade of Root Beer today, don't you think? (I have followed your advice and set aside my pre-conceived notion that blue is blue. :P )

Thank you! (I miss him too!)

+++++++++++++

Oh? I have checked the date stamps, but it seems to me that there were 2 fluff posts after my fluff post. (GH provided mood music.) I didn't notice the time lag as I was in bed for some of that, I think, but if I was in bed, the UK was awake. This is a nice, subtle bit of LAMISTing. I'm glad no one else noticed it so that I could. (Or maybe it means I need to reread the concept to see what it is :/ ) Is it customary that you are townread? Have you ever been full scum? Were you townread in the games where you were anti-town?

As I have not yet read it, this makes two of us.
...
Thank you for the explanation.
Thank you for correcting the games in which we have played together. I had forgotten.

I am willing to vote you -- especially to avoid NL -- because of
1. General feeling of scumminess from you; this seems to be reflected in multiple people's views to and about you, which means enough support might exist for us to gaining information from any lunch.
2. General seeming unwillingness on the part of others to vote Joe as yet.
3. Giving a good talk to a new player about mechanics does not a good town-player make. The best scum player can talk all day long about what townsfolk ought to be doing, while simultaneously hoping that they either forget to do them or hoping the other player has a case of "you were so helpful that I shan't turn this recommended approach of looking at things too closely at yuour actions, my dear Advisor." IOW, advice to a new player does not equal scum-hunting. it is also not anti-scum hunting, but should not be mistaken for scum-hunting (I have made this mistake before--HSL's coaching was so helpfull that he easily pocketed me--and so I am now wary of falling into that scum-trap. Thus, I suspect all those who i see as coaching over-much.)
4. BTW, my comment "what a mafia player out to be doing" does not equal "what a scum player ought to be doing."
5A. I have said in previous games that I tend to find myself agreeing with whoever speaks most recently, am easily swayed, etc. You are articulate and persuasive, and this raises my hackles because of previously being burned. (The time when I was responsible for us losing the game (59) because I believed Pooka over others comes hauntingly to mind.)
5B. I have oft observed that one of the scum players tends to be extremely talkative, and tries to steer us sheep, while another one hangs about in the background, out of sight, out of mind, and then subtly moves in and hammers or swings things in their direction. In my first game (57) HSL took the front row. In Carradice's first game, Yogsloth took the lead and SPF/Catte did the "hiding in plain sight." In fact, no-one suspected him of anything.
5C. You seem to be doing more of the talking than some; this makes you a trend toward suspect per 5B. You have talked several times--at length--about mechanics. You have also talked a good deal about non-mechanics.
You accused Joe early on, and have given a narrative that I find somewhat compelling--this is where it gets tricky for me. If he flips town (contrary to what I suspect), you are most likely scum who backed off when they saw a better target or that others took the planted bait. If he flips scum, this goes a deal towards town-clearing you, unless, of course, it was an early Scum V Scum vote to start convo and never meant to end in Scum!Joe's lunch. You could also be 3rd party who aligned yourself with scum or who erroneously sees Joe as scum. Or, (but I doubt it) this is TVT.
At this point, my head falls apart as I try to analyze "is this interaction TVT, SVS, TVS, SVT TV3rd,, or what?"

6. Residual concern over what I saw at the time as an attempt to shade me, which you have since tried to explain away. While I would like to believe you, I would also kick myself if it were proven to be false, ie if you are scum and actually were involved in shading, but backed off as soon as it was spotted.

7. Perhaps it would be better said that I don't see you as concrete scum, but as perhaps one of our best chances (compared to the other players, especially compared to the other players about whom there is anything like a consensus of public opinion) of eliminating scum, and so am willing to vote you.

Does this answer your question? I feel that i have forgotten something important...

+++++++++++

Trent has replied several times and still hasn't answered this bit AFAIK.

@trent please explain.

++++++++

I'm confused about Lift. Usually, I think he is slightly town, then I start doubting myself, then, I feel that he is scum. Either that, or I think he is scum all along. It seems that invariably he turns up town. While previous games obviously have no bearing on his alignment in this one, does the fact that I actually am slightly townreading him so far in this game mean he is scum, or does it mean that i am finally learning his play style, or does it mean that history repeats itself again?

++++++

This is what i do. I tend to misspeak and make everyone think i am scummy only to not be. Others can verify. :D much like GH and his "this is not a vote", or ZFR and his obsession with math (sorry, ZFR!) i am accidentally saying things without thinking that come out wrong.

++++++++

I agree. i keep being advised to read the game "Trouble in the Astrokan boot Camp", but I never do.

Thank you for your thoughts and answer.

GH- ehh, neutral?
Catte - Absent ore than usual? It is Day 1, and SPF was always quiet on D1, so maybe Catte is also?
NMillar, I lean scummy? I need to check for interactions between Joe and NMillar and between Gogtrial and NMillar.

Voting Joe, willing to vote Gogtrial to avoid NL, most of the others fall into "meh" for all others.
if gogtrail is scum, I can see how trent could be too, but I don't know if he'd support his fellow scum or avoid doing so.

++++++++

Okay, this is 3+ pages of Calibri 11 with no spacing between lines, and probably won't all fit on one poste. I should reread it for consistencies sake, and to see if I need to add anything to anything, but I'm tired and IRL is stressful, so meh.