Not sure why it's relevant, but Turkish. I had a friend convey the rules to me.

It happens....no worries.

Sounds good.

Well as long as they shoot someone today(my friday) then I guess I can hold off my vote for now**.

(**=As Pook[in]a already knows who I want to vote for. My biggest suspects atm are laser or scene[due to the back-forth between the two of them, etc].....I probably will vote one of them sometime after Pook[in]a shoots or late night tonight[If I don't fall asleep before then])

Thank you for this....it is appreciated.

(Btw I am willing to tell you via PM anytime during the game if you still want to know.....just PM me anytime and I will tell you a brief summary about it)

That's the beauty of it, imo, it has it's upsides for my side no matter what side I play on:

Look at the SH game.....It was a new game type for me, and due to my play style and going against how others would play in my shoes(in that game) I helped us win that game.

And in other games where I was town, I was sometimes able to divert town lynches/NK onto me and away from more important town players.

The "funny" thing is I never thought it could be so effective in such ways or other ways to help the team I am on.....and yes, it sometimes hinders my team as well, but at least it's not all negative/bad & has it's uses(my play style I mean).

I should expand on what I said earlier(about my note taking/etc):

See, I take few notes due to me being bad at analysis and not knowing what to write with each note sometimes, me forgetting to write down some notes, and sometimes even me just being a bit lazy(yes, I admit that I am sometimes lazy, though I try to work on it a bit when I can). This leads to me having few leads in most games to pursue.

Atm I just have lonzi for lurking(though they are now posting more so they lean a bit less scummy and a bit more town), scene and laser(talked about above), and little else**.

(**=Well maybe Pook[in]a will jump up the scum list a tiny bit if they don't shoot today and somehow live till D3...beyond that I don't have any I can recall on my scum list)

Replied to Carradice/Laser

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But it's so much fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuum. :D

Nice...did you check out my song additions to the thread? I hope you(and everyone else)liked them.

I might not play the best sleuth, but I try to add to the game regardless(i'm like the waterboy of GOG mafia, in a way). :)

I do this myself...I copy each window's contents to a program, reply to it there, then save it...then I get another window of contents(another post) I want to reply to and repeat the prior steps....and once I have a complete reply to post I copy it all to a reply window in this thread and post it.
==========================================

Can't speak for them but I think it's fun to make small talk in such games on rare occasion to make the game more enjoyable/laid back.

Also during slow moments it's better than doing nothing while waiting for more people to post.

@Laser
To be honest I have no idea. I played with SPF only once (twice if we count Court of the Sultan), he is a bit off, ZFR thought so too on D1, and it's the same exactly what happened in previous mafia game in Stanley Hotel: SPF was a bit off, ZFR accused him together with you (Zazak) but in end SPF came out as Town. SPF was a bit strange when I overreacted and he voted but I was also strange for him so that's can be explained. SPF proposed to lynch you (Laser) because he thought you're a bulletproof Mafia, yes it was a bit strange for me as it was looking almost as a proposition to save a shot for later but he then stated that it was not what he meant. So I don't know really, there were some other little inconsistencies which I have to double check just in case.

Can't say anything about Lith, he seems reasonable for me. He got my attention when he expressed his opinion that a real day shooter would kill Pooka right away. But to thing of it, in reality the real day shooter could actually do this (if he is angry and impulsive enough), I just told him why it's not helpful for Town, to be honest I took into account that Pooka might be an impostor (I'm the only so paranoid about it, I know) and pleaded to the real shooter to not reveal him/herself just yet. Can't say much about his later posts at the moment. Need to analyze them more.

So my conclusion: it's unclear for me but I'm to check again since we have so few hours left.

@Lonzi
I was going to grab the biggest button and rip it off from her dress (see attached). I was not pleased by that reveal. What of it? What do you think I'm a pervert? I'm (good to know that every one else is saint), but I know my limits so don't worry about it happening again.

@Cristigale
Laser and you think that Scene is Town but the reasons you gave are uncertain. But I get your point nonetheless.

@Carradice
Any plans to consider Google Docs, please...?
Your second version pictures are much better by the way.

I wonder how it works exactly: for instance If I would say something like *Wouldn't it be hilarious if Carradice is Mafia posing himself as King Herod in the form of videos where he is questioning Jes... ahem... Micro, and laughing at us?*. Will it count as 0.1 suspicion?
What's the line between poking, questioning, suspicion?

And more serious question: can we expect more videos? ;)

@Lazy: Thank you. That was a question not necessarily related to the game, but out of real curiosity.

@GR: The time allotted for the game has been sucked away mostly with the video and the charts this week. I am missing a lot, but I always enjoy a song, particularly when it fits the current situation. Will go back and check!

@Cadaver. I can understand your suggestion. It was my first thought when starting the work on the charts. However, several concerns led me to keep it restricted to files that could be attached in the game thread. The main one is that, since the info in the charts might help with the decision making (it helps me at least, and sometimes to others; they are helpful even used in a very basic way), they should be available for future readers. Relying on a third party service does not seem the best way of assuring that (especially for spreadsheets with formulae, more fragile than pure text services), while a picture remaining in the thread depends only on GOG. I was wary of even adding them in the shape of a picture, but had to compromise.

Yes, the last pictures were taken using a proven method, and yes, either PNG or GIF are better suited for large areas with flat colours than JPG. The first pictures were made with another program, in order to add the graphical commentary, in order to make easier the interpretation for people who meet the tables for the first time.

You can ask anything about the tables. I had lots of fun building them. The aim is that they are useful even used in the most basic way. Then they have plenty of little knobs aimed and giving the reader an edge for separating suspects that may score equally in the basic levels of information. Also, a portion of the knobs is dedicated to analyze people's style of suspecting, which is a sort of radiography that shows patterns over time.

The suspicion table is best built on detailed lists of suspects. You can even assign numbers yourself. 1 is restricted for flipped scum. 0 for flipped Town. 0.8 is normally a vote when someone says they are sure someone is scum. A 0.9 is rare and requires solid reasoning by the endgame. When there is an ordered list, I range the suspects from 0.8 to something above 0.5, always following the comments and remarks from the player expressing the reads. When no order is given, I am giving all suspects 0.75 and all townies 0.25. I did a hunt for reads on this day, starting by the end of the thread. I do not intend to do again because it is very time consuming, but I will try to register everything that peple express in a clear way. If you can give me a vertical vector, that would be awesome because it helps having new charts more often.

No need to say for the veterans, but will repeat it here: everything related to the spreadsheet, etc is made and will always be made in the most objective way possible, regardless of alignment. It simply would not be fun at all for me to do it otherwise. To mark that, I often add the word "FACT" or something to the same effect, and separate it from the personal analysis, which I often label "OPINION".

LAST READS

What follows is an attempt to sistematize the last readings, in order to express them in the most succint and objective way possible.

Categories used (not necessarily alignment indicative, per se)

Good logic: it tries to solve the game using reason, avoiding flaws.

Bad logic: Flawed logic, where the speaker draws wrong conclussions, seemingly in an unintentional way.

Manipulative logic: Flawed logic that actively uses phallacies in order to manipulate the listener.
[i]
Lurking:[/i] intentional or unintentional. Intermitent or sustained.


# STANCE #

There is none whom I would especially like to have taken to lunch. On the other hand, I do have people whom I would never vote for. Also, there are people whom I would vote in order to avoid losing someone else who is more valuable for scumhunting.

However, in order to actually solve the game, it is necessary to commit by following the strongest lead available, regardless if we like it or not (often we do not).

There is order within plateaus, but the leap is larger between plateaus.


# PEOPLE AND READS #

From "would never vote" to "would vote in order to prevent losing someone more helpful".


## DAY VIG ##

Miss Pookie deserves a class of her own.

08 - Miss Pookie Mustard (PookaMustard): No reason to think she is not the Day Vigilante, as of now. I would not vote for her, period.


## GOOD EGGS ##

Seem to be doing a genuine effort for solving the game. Zeffer would have been here.

11 - Shapie Lonzi (Lonzi): Good logic. Sensible posts. Has lurked, but with good RL reasons.

09 - Shirley Primalley (SirPrimalform): Good logic in this game. Seems to be doing an honest effort in both solving the game and keeping it within the track of healthy play. Has been very present so far.


## PAR FOR THE COURSE ##

Within their usual line of play. Some of his antics might make them look scummy, while sometimes they help hunting scum. Mike the Fish would have been here.

01 - Cadaver Slim (Cadaver747): Interesting reflections, sometimes mixed with devastatingly outworldly logic.

10 - Games O'Rager (GameRager): Wholly within his regular line of play. Has lurked but with a good RL reason. He is here for the fun, something that I can relate to. Sometimes he makes interesting questions and remarks, while at other times, he adds some noise. Good, bad or manipulative logic? Yes.

## SO-SO ##

People whose play looks worse than those above, but still stays better than those below.

02 - Scenes Supplamicz (supplementscene): Ranges from bad logic unworldly logic. Bought the fake Vigilante (I did not when I read the thread, nor many others, so why did he, if he is a seasoned player). Has had good moments, though. In his last posts, he is attacking Primalley's position with a logic that is difficult to grasp (sorry).


## KINGDOM OF SELF ##

These are currently playing mostly to avoid being lynched. They are adding little or nothing to real scumhunting (although there might me something interesting now and them).They do not need to be scum, though. Their posts are simply less useful for solving the game than anyone else's above. It depends on them to stay here or not. Scenes was and moved up.

06 - Cristine the Gale (Cristigale): Manipulative logic all the way. Has lurked. Does not need to be scum, just self-interested. Lazy, only, not in her teens.

05 - Lazy Walkins (LASER97): Ranges from bad to manipulative to no logic at all. Does not need to be scum. However, he is if offering little in the way of explanations for his reads. Some of his posts have been less than constructive, to put it mildly.


## WORRYING ##

Out of their regular play line. They do not need to be scum, but should be watched in order to give them the chance to clear themselves through their actions.

03 - Large the Lift (Lifthrasil: Bad logic in a player who often (but not always) offers rationality. Although he can be stubborn defending policy, he has been more lax this game. Has lurked, although I would buy his RL escuse.




That is all, folks. You can ask for a more detailed explanation. Only, I am not discussing my views on X with X (since everyone is expected to swear they are Town anyway).

* Cristine: ..."only not in her teens" means only that their posts manage to convey a tone of sensibility and making sense, in general, even when they do not.

No. It's focusing on a main target (call it tunneling, if you want to) and reserving judgement on cases where I don't have enough information on yet.

Let me give you an example: your defense of Laser will be read differently depending on Lasers flip. Are you scum trying to save a scumbuddy? Are you scum, trying to gain Town-points by coming to the aid of a lost case who will be a mislynch? Are you Town, who genuinely thinks that Laser is Town too, in spite of all the indication to the contrary? You have, for example, not yet explained away his open speculation who the Cop might be. That was either fishing or it was painting a target on GR's back.

One way or the other, Lazer has been integral to this Day and many relation can be analyzed once we have his flip. Doing so before the flip is speculation with very little actual content. By now, I think we need Lasers flip, even in the unlikely event that he should turn out a mis-lynch.

Also, I'm not going to make Lasers life easier by giving him easy targets to deflect the attention to. I gave some Town-reads, which he conveniently ignored. Just as you did, when you pretended that I didn't share any reads. But he asked specifically for other scum reads. I.e. for people who he could use to save himself after all. For a while he seemed to have given up and seemed resigned to being Todays kill. But that seems to have changed. Maybe correlated to the realization, that Town won't lose a Day when Pooka tries to shoot him?

Interesting. If you are Town, we really have a diametrically opposed view of the game. SPF and Carradice are my Town-reads. We only agree on Pooka and only if he actually does take his shot Today.
Interestingly, in spite of our opposing and in spite of you apparently defending Laser, I do get a Town vibe from you. You seem to be invested in the attempt of finding scum. Even if your 'finds' are off.

Uuuuh. Mentioning rule #34 in connection with yourself? Bad style! Isn't this game supposed to be kid friendly? ;-)


I have been playing scum more often than statistically expected over the past games. But I do try to play in a towny way, independent of the faction I belong to. Doesn't everybody try that?

How can you say that when SirP continuously refuses to share his other reads?

If this were even remotely true, Cristi would have finished me off instead of defending me.

At the beginning of the day, you acted extremely confident that I would flip scum.

Now you must have realized that your plan will backfire, and are preparing excuses for when I inevitably flip town.

Wrong. I am still very confident that you will flip scum.

So you want to shoot me instead of the player whom many, including you, read as quite likely scum? Well, it's not as if I can stop you and I won't change my reads or play-style or my available time just to please you. If you want to shoot scum, shoot Laser. If you want to shoot me, just because you can, Laser will have to be tomorrow's lynch target. But that won't be my problem anymore and probably also not yours. Even though you won't have any shot left, the moment you prove that you are the Vig, you are also proven Town. Rather sooner than later Scum will have to kill you. But you knew that and invited that with your reveal anyhow. So do whatever you want. I'm NOT moving my vote away from Laser unless it is absolutely necessary to avoid a no-lynch. (For example if you don't shoot today)

We have at least 6 hours 25 minutes left + 4 extra hours
https://time.is/ru/UTC+2

But independent of the target, considering the approaching deadline you should shoot soon. So that we can still get a lynch done, should you hit the bulletproof scum.

It's almost 1 day after Pooka's deadline. I expect we'll either arrange a lynch for bulletproof Mafia (if shot and no one dies) or someone else (if not). If Pooka is fake and we'll gather around any wagon (e.g. not a real bulletproof) the actual shooter will kill Pooka I believe in no time. In any case we have time.