Finally caught up. I find the votes on Laser ridiculous. But I am also reminding myself that this is mainly a culture clash issue. I think at least half of the votes are honest. Not sure about a couple.

I found that gambit hilarious and in my book Laser is close to lock-town. Scene, less so, but still likely town. If I am wrong about Laser I will happily eat crow post-game.

Gambits like Laser's are common on other sites. It was probably a poor choice to do that here. There are downsides to what he did, but it's not lynch worthy. And no, this is not mod-kill territory, you got to let players play the game.

If you haven't figured it out, I am not a LAL proponent. One of the best lies from town here on GOG cost trent, hyper and myself a mafia win in one of yogs games. It was awesome, I couldn't be mad that town pulled it off.

I will not vote Laser and will be sad he is policy lynched.

To put it mildly...

100% agree. No rules broken.

-------

I'll tell you, had it been anyone else I'd have agreed with you, but what really pissed me off is that last game only, none other than Lazak himself was reacting much more harshly to a joke "gambit" that I made and calling for policy lynches for a much smaller offenses.

"Softclaiming a PR on day one as a gambit to catch scum is idiotic and only hurts town."

"ZFR's stupid gambit would get him policy lynched on most forums, but he's probably not scum."

"For the record, softclaiming on day one is anti-town (even if bluffing), and would be grounds for an immediate policy lynch on some forums. I was nice about it this time, but if it ever happens again I will go after that person hard."

"When used as a bluff, it falls under the Lynch all Liars policy. Deception from town only helps scum win. "

These are His. Own. Words.

Note particularly the last quote. Deception. From. Town. Only. Helps. Scum. Win.

And after all that (he gave others flak too, calling for multiple policy lynches), he does this.

https://www.gog.com/forum/general/the_shining_gog_mafia_65_return_to_the_stanley_hotel

Please read up to post 11 (practically all one liners) to see what I did that warranted a policy lynch according him. Post ELEVEN. A JOKE.

Now you see why I'm pissed?

Unvote lazer

OK, I'm being personally biased because of last game. Thanks for providing a more objective outsider's view, cristi.

But I'm still pissed (and still tempted to vote just to make an example).

With ~24 hours remaining, what do you propose?

And so it is that many of us are very little surprised when Lazy Walkins, being a newcomer to our city and not knowing the particular habits of the residents, putting his hand on Mike the Fish's shoulder and saying to him like this:
"Come now, friend, it seems we're all confusing issues here more than somewhat, and I personally would like to take a moment to reach an amicable decision."
finds himself with Mike the Fish's left paw in his gut, and his face very red with popping eyes as I am seeing from many a guy who takes a paw in the gut from Mike the Fish at a time when he is not expecting it.


4 - Mike the Fish (Microfish_1) - Lifthrasil, SirPrimalform, LASER97, supplementscene,

3 - Lazy Walkins (LASER97) - Carradice, Cadaver747, Pookina,

1 - Large the Lift (Lifthrasil) - Microfish_1,

0 - Scenes Supplamicz (supplementscene) -
0 - Games O'Rager (GameRager) -
0 - Miss Pookie Mustard (Pookina) -
0 - Diceman Zeffer (ZFR) -
0 - Jocelyn Carradice, the Dancer (Carradice) -
0 - Shirley Primalley (SirPrimalform) -
0 - Cadaver Slim (Cadaver747) -
0 - Cristine the Gale (Cristigale) -
0 - Shapie Lonzi (Lonzi) -
0 - No-Lunch -

Not Voting - Lonzi, GameRager, Cristigale, ZFR,

Microfish_1 currently holds the most votes at 3 votes away from majority.

The Elimination Phase will end in a day or two, mostly likely sunday evening

scene, watch that double-posting you!

EBWOP

I will not vote Laser and will be sad if he is policy lynched.

It's possible that the vig could counter claim or vig Laser, but why? You wait it out and see what happens. If Laser is lying (and does not recant) if becomes obvious soon enough.

I do agree that Mafia now has one less NK target. That is one of the drawbacks. Unless they find scene too towny to keep alive, which is probably not happening soon.

That is good to know about scene in a previous game. No town-points for scene, just based on that. Although, I still think he's town.

Tried hard to understand this sentence but it surpasses by far my decoding capabilities.

Also, those long posts of mine were really hard to miss, and they were close in the thread to your question. Are you really on the ball? or knowing already who is scum bores you so much.

====================

Easy. ZFR explained it already. There are just two possibilities. Either he lied or he said the truth. If he said the truth, he is basically saying that Town powers will be with other players, than his, therefore making it easier for scum to hit a power.

The other possibility is a lie. But it is hard to see a reason for a townie to lie in such a situation. In any case, the sensible thing would have been waiting for the mod. In any case, a seasoned mafia regular would have died with the lie, as ZFR mentioned that precisely Scene has done before, as scum, even after hammering.

Now we have a confirmed liar who hurt Town and admittedly votes for Micro without giving any reason. Also we have someone who quick as lightning claims to be vanilla town, which is the most convenient of roles to fake, and now somehow each of them swears by the life of Runyon that the other is clearly the most townie pal ever. I must have missed something, because I am at a loss with this.

I haven't had a chance to check the game, but if he said those things, then yes, I understand why you are pissed.

Before all that happened I was getting suspicious of Laser and the push that started as I left for the night. In a vacuum, his vote on Micro was an easy vote if he was scum.

My suspicion on Micro, I am pretty sure someone else said it, but I'm not sure w/o reading back. There seems to be a lack on urgency and scum hunting on their part. Is this standard for Micro? Does #215 sound fake or not?

Thanks. You put precisely why the dayvig lie irks me.

It wasn't that long ago, when he had absolutely no tolerance for anti-Town play. Suddenly he does what he did, and I'm supposed to just accept it - it was after all a gambit to get scene to react, honest.

And if scene wasn't Mafia, he wouldn't have responded the way he did. I definitely didn't see like one or two mafiosos who continued pretending to be Town even after something as guaranteed as the hammer vote. Like a mafioso scene was just going to tell us "haha I'm mafia you got me good laser."

That's why I'm keeping my vote on him. I'm not convinced anything he did just the last few days were in good (Town) faith.

Yes, I think his behaviour this game is pretty usual Micro D1 behaviour.

Re: 215. I'm not sure - can't tell one way or another.

My problem (and I think everyone who plays these games suffers from this to an extent) is that a person's previous alignment overinfluences me the next game. For example, Lift can attest how the fact that he's scum makes me scum-read him immediately the next game. So same way, my view of Micro could be biased: he was always Town so I'm subconsciously reading him as Town now.

However, Micro has always been expressing a desire to be scum for once, and I'd like to think that a person who finally gets his wish handles it more carefully. You know, so he can actually enjoy it longer. I remember how pissed I was when I finally got my first proper PR and got NKed N1 before making any use of it. I could do nothing about the NK, but Micro can do something about not getting lynched. One of the things he can do is avoid unnecessary stupid claims and I think if he were scum, he'd do just that.

So I'm leaning Town on him.

(and if he is scum then it would be harsh that he finally got his wish only not to get the possibility to use his scum powers at Night. But in that case, he only brought it upon himself. Micro, if you are scum then dude, did you mess up with the claim you made).

Do you think scum are able to pull this off prior to any communication? Joe already clarified scum has no day chat.

Like I could maybe see this between two players with a long history together. Would still be gutsy move.

If laser and scene pulled this off the cuff as scum, kudos.

OK, I can buy that. Carradice and GameRager are what is left in my POE list. I am not sure either of these have enough support for a lynch. I am open to re-examining my list above this. Remind me who you would like to lynch.

Policy lynch aside, I wouldn't mind lynching scene.

Other than that, only Cadaver, Lonzi (newbie protetion) and yourself (slight Town read + back-after-a-long-break protection) are on my strictly no-vote list.

Micro is town-leaning but I would vote him to avoid No-Lynch.

Carradice is slight town-lean, but could be my bias.

From the remainder, I wouldn't mind going after GR, Pooka, SPF, Lift in that order.

I didn't follow this. How did expect town!scene to react?

I wouldn't mind stirring things up:

Vote Games O'Rager (GameRager)

I would also vote Micro to avoid no-lynch. I'm more unsure on them than you.

Supper time, will check back later and can be around tomorrow. If EOD is Sunday evening Joe's time, I may be out right at end of day. Have a standing appt from 1-3 CDT.

I don't see why he would, I don't think LASER broke any actual game rules. Lying as town is just generally not thought of as a good idea.