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General discussionGOG Mafia #66 - Lunch at Gog's Restaurant(1268 posts)(1268 posts)
(1268 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted May 15, 2020
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cristigale: First part: You voted ZFR earlier, I took it as RVS. What feels wrong about ZFR?

Second part: As town, do you tend to survive to the end, get NK or lynched?

Third part: Yes, drealmer hosted a gold-rush themed game...wow, that must have been a few years ago??
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Microfish_1: 1. I'm not sure--see above. Something about ZFR's interactions (in general? just with Cadaver? I can't tell.) just feels off, but I cannot put my finger on it.

2. I want to survive, of course. I also took the circle from last night to be just that--a circle going nowhere except 'round and 'round (and round again?) (despite not being a school bus). I was bored and hoped to start a more profitable discussion.

3. Thank you. I was feeling nostalgic for The Yukon Trail (by MECC) and was tired enough to just let the zaniness flow in my writing.
On part 2, I meant what is your history as town in terms of being lynched, NK or surviving? I don't need to know exact numbers, just trying to get some context.


I started a reads list, but I am nodding off. I stayed up too late last night. I should be around a decent part of Friday...in about 10 hours.
Posted May 15, 2020
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Microfish_1: ZFR has said nothing by the end of page three to give me anything concrete against him, but the is a niggling feeling.
You always read me as scum...

Are you going to address the reason you claimed? I took it as a joke, but a few others mentioned it as a possible reason to vote you.
Posted May 15, 2020
First off to all...sorry for the delay....was working out some IRL stuff(don't worry, I can still play the game and do it decently)...now for some replies(make sure to check the post for any replies that may apply to you):
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cristigale: On one side, I see someone who is asking a lot of questions. Poking people. I can see this as genuine. Trying to dig at what is often the insignificant things early on, that helps drive the game forward. Some scum can do that, but not a lot do it well.
You make good points here.....I think this sort of thing and Cadaver just posting a good amount makes him less likely to be scum(scum usually don't post as cadaver has done/is doing....from what i've seen & recall from prior games i've played[in general], that is)...gonna lean him slightly more town.

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Lifthrasil: And I wonder why Micro felt the need to point out so extensively that he is Town and always has been Town. That seems very LAMIST. Is he hiding something? Or is it genuine annoyance at being Town again. It is true, he asked me to be made scum. But the RNG disagreed and a mod should never arbitrarily influence the role and alignment distribution. But maybe the RNG finally granted Micro's wish?
It could be either the biggest scum gambit of all time, or just a town being town.....tbh I don't think A Scum!Micro would be so blatant and over the top in proclaiming themselves to be town, but of course I could be wrong.

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JoeSapphire: As I am suggesting privately to myself that my bowl of clams was some while away, and no small while at that, Large the Lift stands up patting his mouth with a handkerchief and announces that a little ham and eggs would be most appreciated. Miss Pookie Mustard takes her finger out of Games O'Rager's face and puts forward the proposition of some grilled lobster with maybe some asparagus cooked in butter, while Games himself states that it would be very agreeable to see a green salad alongside some ripe olives and shelled nuts.
It seems all parties are thinking something close to these suggestions and an order for lunch is placed.
Damn, dude, yer making me hungry for real. :D

(Nice flavor text, essentially)

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lonzi: VLA ~24 hours I have a migraine
I hope you'll feel better soon....see you when you get back.

(Also get some rest...it might help)

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Microfish_1: 3. Thank you. I was feeling nostalgic for The Yukon Trail (by MECC) and was tired enough to just let the zaniness flow in my writing.
That game was MY JAM years back...that, OT2, and the amazon trail(I believe that was it's name).

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(Done for now.....any replies/questions?

Also to all: Sorry for being gone so long.....will try my best to keep up from now on)
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(Also @Cadaver: I feel ya on burning out a bit....i've played so many games I likely have become stuck to the floor of the mafia game room.....but I still like it enough to keep playing thankfully[as I love the game, even if i'm not that good at it.]

Hope you'll relax a bit and feel better later on...have a good one, Slim :))
Posted May 15, 2020
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ZFR: You always read me as scum...

Are you going to address the reason you claimed? I took it as a joke, but a few others mentioned it as a possible reason to vote you.
I said so in 180: i was bored and wanted something other than the then-active circle-endlessly-circling to talk about.
Also, it was part-joke--but I did not lie.
Yes, I often read you as scum at first. I find you harder to figure out, and thus while others get figured out and town-read, you remain an enigma and thus cannot be town-read as much as others.

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cristigale: snip
Well, i'll give you the real numbers anyway--SH 3 & Sultan 1, I lost.
Mafia 57 (Captain Sapphire), i was unmasked Action Phase 3 (NK) Was Psychoanalyst
58 (Disney to the Rescue) I survived (despite nearly being taken out by Bookwyrm's town-daypower); vanilla
59 (Previously on Mafia) I survived; vanilla
60 (HMSS Spectator) lunched D2; vanilla
61 (Pacifists) subbed out by RWarehall; 1-use hider
64 (Harry Potter) subbed in N1 and survived; D4 Innocent Child (that was a tough role to live up to!)
65 (The Shining) survived; vanilla

all told: 7 mafia games, 4 vanilla, 1 Psychoanalyst, 1 Hider, 1 D4 IC. 1 NK, 1 Lunch, 1 Subbed out, 4 survived.
Court of the Sultan I lost because I didn't survive; SH lost because the team lost.

Does this answer your questions?
Posted May 15, 2020
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Lifthrasil: And I wonder why Micro felt the need to point out so extensively that he is Town and always has been Town. That seems very LAMIST. Is he hiding something? Or is it genuine annoyance at being Town again. It is true, he asked me to be made scum. But the RNG disagreed and a mod should never arbitrarily influence the role and alignment distribution. But maybe the RNG finally granted Micro's wish?
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GameRager: It could be either the biggest scum gambit of all time, or just a town being town.....tbh I don't think A Scum!Micro would be so blatant and over the top in proclaiming themselves to be town, but of course I could be wrong.
That's the problem. It's a whole load of WIFOM. When I was scum I have often done things that were over the top or dangerous as scum - counting on people to think 'He would never do that as scum!'. The point is, Micro has no good reason to make such a blatant statement as Town either. As scum it could at least be a gambit. As Town ... well, boredom is a valid explanation I guess. If he wanted to get us talking with that statement, he succeeded.

Hmm... it's really a difficult decision. Do I believe his boredom explanation? Or do I believe there's scum motivation behind it? Or was it out of boredom but he still is scum?

I have to think a bit about this. Maybe it's better to switch to Lazak instead. Yes, he gave an IRL reason for his quietness, but still he's one of the better D1 picks for me for several reasons: scum can use IRL reasons to be conveniently quiet. Last game zazak seemed much more invested until he got angry with my setup. This game is open, no shenanigans to be feared. So I would expect him to be more invested if he were Town, even with a lack of time. But I don't know him that well yet, so is my expectation enough to condemn him?
Posted May 15, 2020
Sorry guys. I haven't been able to participate in the last few days as I've had to prioritise a customer. I will catch up today

If you could let also me know when close of day is
Posted May 15, 2020
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supplementscene: Sorry guys. I haven't been able to participate in the last few days as I've had to prioritise a customer. I will catch up today

If you could let also me know when close of day is
We should have about ~3 calendar days left. Please reply to my or Cristi's post.
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JoeSapphire: The Elimination Phase will end in 3 or 4 days thereabout
Also, welcome back I was worried about you lurking over time (>36 hours), any modkill will ruin the game.
Posted May 15, 2020
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Lifthrasil: Hmm... it's really a difficult decision. Do I believe his boredom explanation? Or do I believe there's scum motivation behind it? Or was it out of boredom but he still is scum?
Good questions....what to do, what to do.
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supplementscene: Sorry guys. I haven't been able to participate in the last few days as I've had to prioritise a customer. I will catch up today
No rush...well maybe just a bit...but not too much. :)
Also your customer thing made me think of this funny clip
(Note: Contains light swearing at one part)
Posted May 15, 2020
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supplementscene: So right now I think there are 2 possibilities.

1. A mafia player of players have jumped on Pookas wagon. It's built quite quickly to 3 votes. If this is the case, then I think the third vote, in Liftrasil's looks the most suspicious
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lonzi: Is this because of a wagon thing where you think the third vote is most suspicious or because you think something about Lift's vote was suspicious or something else?
Lift's vote was the 3rd on the wagon and it started a serious contender very quickly. My scumhunting tactics (not that I'm good at it) are:

1. Look who starts wagons on town players and escalate them quickly

2. Look for players not trying to solve the game

In Post 69 - Lift makes a big song and dance about past Mafia games where Mafia players have claimed Mafia roles as jokes and says he believes in lynching all liars. But this is a day 1 joke - Pooka doesn't even claim Mafia but Mafia Town, which is impossible. To me it looks like Lift is pulling a WIFOM in Post 69 - it seems too over the top

Even if Pooka is Mafia, I still think Lift smells scummy vibes because he'll get loads of town points for bussing a teammate if that is the case.
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supplementscene: 2. That mafia have avoided confrontation and haven't voted. The none voters are:

Cadaver Slim (Cadaver747)
Lazy Walkins (LASER97)
Cristine the Gale (Cristigale)
Games O'Rager (GameRager)
Shapie Lonzi (Lonzi)
Mike the Fish (Microfish_1)

I tend to think lurky silence should be punished regardless of role. As it makes it too easy for Mafia to hide in the shadows and if these players are town they don't help town solve the game.
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cristigale: @scene - when you posted only two in your list had not voted

Small thought but would like to hear scene's reaction first.
You are correct I think I'd only caught up to Joe's vote count prior to my post and hadn't updated it to include new posts. The posters that know me will testify I'm prone to making such gaffs

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Microfish_1: This is my 7th town mafia game (I counted). (I had to be subbed out of one, due to surgery, but I still count that one!) (Make it 8 if you count the SH game, and 9 if you also include the Sultan game.)
Now, compare that to my record of 0 scum games. (well, one on discord, but that doesn't count.) Last game, I even asked Lift to make me mafia. He cryptically replied, "we'll see," and then made me town. This is proof that I can't draw mafia even when i try. I must be immune to that team?

And I am still town. This means that at this rate you'll never see my scum game (unlike lift, who smells a bit atm).

Why am i crowing? I honestly do not know. Maybe to mix things up a bit in case i ever do get to be scum? But a vote on me is a wasted vote. I'm nothing more nor less in this game than plain old boring Mike the Fish, sitting over here and smelling of tuna. (yeah, i know nothing about Boston fish, other than lobster, and i don't care for the thought of it.)
This sounds LAMIST with very little game solving
Posted May 15, 2020
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supplementscene: You are correct I think I'd only caught up to Joe's vote count prior to my post and hadn't updated it to include new posts.
So you say you noticed that there was at least 1 discrepancy. Why haven't you EBWOP it? If you check my post I specifically waited for you and was ready for a bump. And you have chosen Cristi's post over mine... oh well.
Posted May 15, 2020
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supplementscene: You are correct I think I'd only caught up to Joe's vote count prior to my post and hadn't updated it to include new posts.
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Cadaver747: So you say you noticed that there was at least 1 discrepancy. Why haven't you EBWOP it? If you check my post I specifically waited for you and was ready for a bump. And you have chosen Cristi's post over mine... oh well.
Why would you assume I'd be A) be around to catch up B) understand the issue you had without explaining the issue you had? It does sound somewhat like you're trying to shade me off an honest mistake. I noted I hadn't had time to catch up with the game for a couple of days.
Posted May 15, 2020
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supplementscene: You are correct I think I'd only caught up to Joe's vote count prior to my post and hadn't updated it to include new posts.
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supplementscene: Why would you assume I'd be A) be around to catch up B) understand the issue you had without explaining the issue you had? It does sound somewhat like you're trying to shade me off an honest mistake. I noted I hadn't had time to catch up with the game for a couple of days.
1. You said exactly that: "You are correct I think I'd only caught up to Joe's vote count prior to my post and hadn't updated"
And asked why haven't you updated your post.

2. I waited for you to update your post (usually people check their posts) and you went offline after a few minutes, then you returned back online again for a few minutes.
I don't know if it was a bug but I saw what I saw and EBWOP could take just 2 minutes: 1 min for a bump and 1 for re-post or 11 mins in worst case.

It does sound like you're shading yourself. I did not question your mistake, we all do mistakes, I just want to know why one does not correct the mistake if it was known *prior* to the post. Is it SO strange to ask?
Posted May 15, 2020
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supplementscene: Why would you assume I'd be A) be around to catch up B) understand the issue you had without explaining the issue you had? It does sound somewhat like you're trying to shade me off an honest mistake. I noted I hadn't had time to catch up with the game for a couple of days.
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Cadaver747: 1. You said exactly that: "You are correct I think I'd only caught up to Joe's vote count prior to my post and hadn't updated"
And asked why haven't you updated your post.

2. I waited for you to update your post (usually people check their posts) and you went offline after a few minutes, then you returned back online again for a few minutes.
I don't know if it was a bug but I saw what I saw and EBWOP could take just 2 minutes: 1 min for a bump and 1 for re-post or 11 mins in worst case.

It does sound like you're shading yourself. I did not question your mistake, we all do mistakes, I just want to know why one does not correct the mistake if it was known *prior* to the post. Is it SO strange to ask?
1. You expect me to update my list of players who haven't voted 3 days on when everyone has voted?

I still think it's worth noting who held off voting before Joe's vote count.

2. I did actually check the thread and I had no idea why you bumped. I scratched my head in fact. I later realised you wanted me to update my 'who hadn't voted list.' But it's still worth noting who hadn't voted prior to Joe's initial vote count.

Simply put yourself and several others were late in your initial votes.
Posted May 15, 2020
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Carradice: snip
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Microfish_1: Scene is very much NOT new to GOG mafia. He played as scum in game 57 (Captain Sapphire, the Movie) and in a few since then.
He was loyalist in the most recent Secret Hitler game, too.
+++++++++++++++++
[...]

Reads:

Zazak/Laser has been very quiet this game--BUT he gave a IRL reason.

@Joe--if you can, please tell us if the scum have day-chat?

Scene has been abnormally quiet. Yet, he isn't raising big red flags either (or really small ones other than forgetting that i had voted, which is easy enough to do.)

I like Carradice's 177. In that post, he seems far more like his self from ZFR's most recent game than he did in Lift's newest game. I'm getting a good feeling here.

I cannot read Pooka; this is NAI? Of course, last game he was scum and I rightly suspected him, but for the wrong reasons.

GR is the same? If I had to make a snap decision, I'd say he might be scum? But, this is normal for him, and I cannot tell.

I like Cristigale's posting so far. They weirdly echo my thinking as of now.

I don't know enough about Lonzi to say clearly.

As stated, I am reading Cadaver as leaning town.

The OP says we have 3 scum. Given my oft-published pet theory of "vocal scum steering things, quiet scum interjecting at opportune moments, & other scum", scum might not be playing that way this game (who am I kidding? I'm not good enough at reading people for scum to seek to avoid my judgement, so they are playing this way?)

So far, my "Leaning ([s]Tower of Pizza?][/s]) Scum" pile consists of ZFR+Lift.
Thank you for the information on @Scenes. This really will help. About @Lonzi and @Cristine, it might seem they are new to GOG mafia, then?

About your theory on mafia play roles, it is interesting, but I am not sure how the Leaning Tower of Pizza fits with it. Who would be the brazen one and who the submariner? Or is it too soon to tell?

For me, there are three tiny lights that have appeared on my dashboard, as can be inferred from my previous post. Will keep watching them until they go off, and will keep checking in case something else turns up. As the day goes on, will follow the best lead, if it is reasonable, even if I do not like where it is headed. But, again, only if there is a reasonable lead, although it does not be to be a definitive one on the first game-day, as we know there is very little to work with. I do not believe in lynching without real commitment from the voters. Voting “just to avoid a no-lynch” sounds like too lame an excuse and leads to less informative bandwagons. This means also that I give zero value to said excuse when analyzing bandwagons. Vote or do not vote, but face what you did. People ought to explain the basis for a vote, even if it is a slim one.

Since the game is an open setup, it makes easier building a simulation model. I will likely adapt the one from ZFR’s game to check the odds as we go. Adding the vig and the strongman ought to be relatively simple.

I wholeheartedly agree with @Lift that discussing roles in closed or semiclosed setups is detrimental for Town. However, in an open setup, I reckon it is OK to discuss possible uses of confirmed roles? For example, when to use the vig shot or the interesting dynamics of the doc-delayed roleblocker (which renders the proctection of the cop and the vig non-trivial), or what advantage might the mob get from their roles. This might be an interesting discussion, with the added benefit that it might help the players affected in getting a bearing, if not very experienced with the game. Also it might help trimming the model. But if you think it might be damaging for Town, I will understand.
Posted May 15, 2020
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supplementscene: 1. You expect me to update my list of players who haven't voted 3 days on when everyone has voted?

I still think it's worth noting who held off voting before Joe's vote count.

2. I did actually check the thread and I had no idea why you bumped. I scratched my head in fact. I later realised you wanted me to update my 'who hadn't voted list.' But it's still worth noting who hadn't voted prior to Joe's initial vote count.

Simply put yourself and several others were late in your initial votes.
Why it was worth noting who held off voting before Joe's vote count? What do you mean by "3 days on..." and why were late?

Post #1 [reserved by Joe]
Post #2: GR entered the game
Post #3: ZFR entered the game
Post #4: SPF entered the game
Post #5: Laser entered the game
Post #8: Carradice entered the game
Post #13: Lith entered the game
Post #15: Cadaver entered the game
Post #16: Cristi entered the game
Post #18: Micro entered the game
Post #19: Scene entered the game | scene > vote SPF | 1st day or 3 days ago
(SPF: 1 vote)
Post #20: Lonzi entered the game
Post #23: [reserved by Joe] | voting results
(SPF: 1 vote)
Post #25: [reserved by Joe]
Post #28: Pooka entered the game (full team)
Post #32: SPF > vote scene | 1st day or 3 days ago
(SPF: 1 vote; scene: 1 vote)
Post #33: Pooka > vote Carradice | 1st day or 3 days ago
(SPF: 1 vote; scene: 1 vote; Carradice: 1 vote)
Post #34: Carradice > vote Pooka | 1st day or 3 days ago
(SPF: 1 vote; scene: 1 vote; Carradice: 1 vote; Pooka: 1 vote)
Post #42: ZFR > vote Pooka | 1st day or 3 days ago
(SPF: 1 vote; scene: 1 vote; Carradice: 1 vote; Pooka: 2 votes)
Post #44: Lith > vote Pooka | 1st day or 3 days ago
(SPF: 1 vote; scene: 1 vote; Carradice: 1 vote; Pooka: 3 votes)
Post #45: scene > unvote SPF > vote Lith | 1st day or 3 days ago
(scene: 1 vote; Carradice: 1 vote; Pooka: 3 votes; Lith: 1 vote)
Post #49: [reserved by Joe] | voting results* - cut of time (according to scene)
(scene: 1 vote; Carradice: 1 vote; Pooka: 3 votes; Lith: 1 vote)
Post #51: Micro > vote ZFR | 1st day or 3 days ago** - his vote was seen but it was LATE (according to scene)
(scene: 1 vote; Carradice: 1 vote; Pooka: 3 votes; Lith: 1 vote; ZFR: 1 vote)
Post #57: GR > vote Micro | 1st day or 3 days ago** - his vote was NOT seen and it was LATE (according to scene)
(scene: 1 vote; Carradice: 1 vote; Pooka: 3 votes; Lith: 1 vote; ZFR: 1 vote; Micro: 1 vote)
Post #58: cristi > vote GR | 1st day or 3 days ago** - his vote was NOT seen and it was LATE (according to scene)
(scene: 1 vote; Carradice: 1 vote; Pooka: 3 votes; Lith: 1 vote; ZFR: 1 vote; Micro: 1 vote; GR: 1 vote)
Post #59: Cadaver > vote GR | 1st day or 3 days ago** - his vote was seen but it was LATE (according to scene)
(scene: 1 vote; Carradice: 1 vote; Pooka: 3 votes; Lith: 1 vote; ZFR: 1 vote; Micro: 1 vote; GR: 2 votes)
Post #63: Your post with cut of time on Post #49*** - my reply was seen but update wasn't necessary

Please correct me if needed, I might have done some mistakes. After all we all can mistake.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionGOG Mafia #66 - Lunch at Gog's Restaurant(1268 posts)(1268 posts)
(1268 posts)