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General discussionGOG Mafia #66 - Lunch at Gog's Restaurant(1268 posts)(1268 posts)
(1268 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted May 29, 2020
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Lifthrasil: Yes. Which was the only thing that offset the abysmal performance by Town. Yours included.
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LASER97: Cristi investigating me and Scene, because of my fake claim, is what helped us win today.
Did you read scum-chat? Your play (outing out 2 vanillas) helped Lonzi pick the Cop on N2. If Lozni's decision hadn't been overidden, we'd have lost.

I can even understand someone making bad plays for Town, but actually claiming those won the game...
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lonzi: GG
GG. Enjoyed playing with you. If you change your mind, you're always welcome here.
Post edited May 29, 2020 by ZFR
Posted May 29, 2020
@Joe: Thanks for running this game. Shame it's over so soon, as I loved the flavour!

@cristi: hope this'll be the start of you playing here more often again?

@lonzi: I was impressed by your play! I hope you enjoyed the playing, and we'll be seeing more of you? - pre-post edit: ah, just saw your post. Shame, but I think I can see where you're coming from. Still, I hope you'll maybe observe some future games and hopefully reconsider at some point. We tend to be a pretty okay group of people on average.

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GameRager: BTW To ALL: I am replying to stuff in both QTs, if anyone cares to read that stuff I add at the end.
Last time around, the gogfather had some things to say about posting to QTs after the game is over, namely "Don't!"
Given the theme of this particular game, I really wouldn't risk it. :)
Posted May 29, 2020
As random passer-by who have no agenda in this, I would like to say I always considered meta here is that people want to enjoy the game. Not act hostile, behave like they are superior to others and should be revered or even to aggravate people on purpose just to establish some basis for their own meta reads.

The game should be played to have fun. If one only plays to win and doesn't mind alienating everyone else they can't be surprised if people are unwilling to play with them in the future.
Posted May 29, 2020
Thanks for hosting Joe, enjoyed this one. I normally get killed off early

I'm not sure why Mafia didn't just bus either Rager or Caradice there and try to get Joppo into the final play

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LASER97: The most abysmal players are those unable to survive.
Cristi investigating me and Scene, because of my fake claim, is what helped us win today.


You mistakenly believe that someone being anti-town means that they have a greater chance of being mafia. Cristi and me have both played on various communities, and tried to explain to you this is rarely ever the case. You were stubborn.

Another important piece of advice. Meta is your greatest tool in this game, but it's a double edged sword. If you always play it straight as town, you are going to get your ass handed to you as mafia. That's part of why I never lose as scum
I was happy to lynch you on Day 2 if not for Pooka shooting Liftrasil. Not because of the fake vig, which I think is kind of an okay strategy. But because you asked my exact role.

On Day 3 you started acting in Town's favour and digging for truth while Mafia gave up and imploded.
Posted May 29, 2020
Mafia needed to go all in misslynching Laser on Day 3. Instead Carradis scumread myself and Laser, hoping to get either of us. If he went hard on Laser and buddied me and shaded Rager. While Rager went all in on Laser and also buddyed me. Meanwhile Joppo could of claimed he only wanted to lynch SPF and waited until Laser got to L1 to come and hammer.

Joppo also could of bussed Rager and Carradis before SPF to try and win out on a final day 3. But I suppose they thought with the strongarm dead all was lost. Agree with the idea that fake cop claim was the play over doctor conflict. Laser would have been an easy lynch and if he claimed he'd read me as town, he could of buddyed up to me.

Good Game everyone, nice playing with you all, even if everyone always reads me as scum
Posted May 29, 2020
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lonzi: Rager, I don't think your mistake was disagreeing about who was the correct kill, I think your mistake was holding the nightkill hostage and putting yourself above the team. I hope your takeaway from this game isn't that you should just defer to more experienced players. I'm not even that experienced. It's okay to be wrong about stuff, no one's perfect, it's okay to argue your opinion and disagree with your team, but I don't think it's okay to force your team to choose to either do as you say or run you over.
That's just it.....I wasn't trying to. This is how events occurred(from my pov):

You picked cadaver as NK earlier in N2, and asked if we agreed. I did agree a short while after that, then carradice seemingly went along with it.

To me, this is an agreed upon pick(in general) and should(to be fair) be honored....when you then changed it(while I was afk/offline) I felt as if you had unfairly overridden the choice we had agreed upon earlier and I overreacted.

I shouldn't have overreacted, but when a player wakes up after agreeing upon a first choice and sees a new choice has been made/attempted to be locked in after that(without re-voting or consensus, even).....I am guessing you can see why someone(like me) would see that as untoward?

That said, I am sorry for overreacting....you had a good call, and even though it went against our previously agreed pick I should've went with it or at least considered it. I am also sorry to hear you were soured on the games here.....you are a good player and it will be a shame to not have you playing with us in the future.
==================================

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gogtrial34987: Last time around, the gogfather had some things to say about posting to QTs after the game is over, namely "Don't!"
Given the theme of this particular game, I really wouldn't risk it. :)
Eh, seeing as the gogfather is more of a figurehead and the game OPs the ones in charge(and they seem to be ok with it)....eh, i'll risk it. Plus what will they do, make me double lose the game? o.0 ;)

(But in all seriousness: I have been doing it since my earliest game[iirc] with no issues. Also most of it is just replying to old posts anyways, not changing anything from older posts, so the old game QT stuff is preserved.)
Post edited May 29, 2020 by GameRager
Posted May 29, 2020
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supplementscene: I'm not sure why Mafia didn't just bus either Rager or Caradice there and try to get Joppo into the final play
They couldn't bus me else they'd have lost the PR, and I wasn't good enough at that point(didn't have a good claim ready, etc) to try bussing carradice(plus I didn't know if it would work and went with the other route).

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supplementscene: Mafia needed to go all in misslynching Laser on Day 3. Instead Carradis scumread myself and Laser, hoping to get either of us. If he went hard on Laser and buddied me and shaded Rager.
The others(iirc) didn't want to shade other scum too much or at all.....I wasn't on board with that much, but I believe they were and it affected their choices in that regard.
Post edited May 29, 2020 by GameRager
Posted May 29, 2020
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JoeSapphire: The Solution to ZFR's riddle posed in the observer chat.

A voiceover of the opening paragraph.
I really enjoyed these!
Posted May 29, 2020
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lonzi: Rager, I don't think your mistake was disagreeing about who was the correct kill, I think your mistake was holding the nightkill hostage and putting yourself above the team. I hope your takeaway from this game isn't that you should just defer to more experienced players. I'm not even that experienced. It's okay to be wrong about stuff, no one's perfect, it's okay to argue your opinion and disagree with your team, but I don't think it's okay to force your team to choose to either do as you say or run you over.
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GameRager: That's just it.....I wasn't trying to. This is how events occurred(from my pov):

You picked cadaver as NK earlier in N2, and asked if we agreed. I did agree a short while after that, then carradice seemingly went along with it.

To me, this is an agreed upon pick(in general) and should(to be fair) be honored....when you then changed it(while I was afk/offline) I felt as if you had unfairly overridden the choice we had agreed upon earlier and I overreacted.

I shouldn't have overreacted, but when a player wakes up after agreeing upon a first choice and sees a new choice has been made/attempted to be locked in after that(without re-voting or consensus, even).....I am guessing you can see why someone(like me) would see that as untoward?

That said, I am sorry for overreacting....you had a good call, and even though it went against our previously agreed pick I should've went with it or at least considered it. I am also sorry to hear you were soured on the games here.....you are a good player and it will be a shame to not have you playing with us in the future.
==================================

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gogtrial34987: Last time around, the gogfather had some things to say about posting to QTs after the game is over, namely "Don't!"
Given the theme of this particular game, I really wouldn't risk it. :)
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GameRager: Eh, seeing as the gogfather is more of a figurehead and the game OPs the ones in charge(and they seem to be ok with it)....eh, i'll risk it. Plus what will they do, make me double lose the game? o.0 ;)

(But in all seriousness: I have been doing it since my earliest game[iirc] with no issues. Also most of it is just replying to old posts anyways, not changing anything from older posts, so the old game QT stuff is preserved.)
That's fair. I was pretty sleep deprived and in a huge rush so I wasn't being very sensitive about how I changed the kill, that's my bad.
Posted May 29, 2020
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lonzi:
It is a pity you're considering not playing more with us, but like ZFR I hope you'll reconsider in the future. For what is worth it I think you were the best player in this game (followed by a tough choice on Cadaver and ZFR as the best for Town). Despite being scum you were the least suspected player, your PR search was as precise as it could be and your NK picks were the best possible given what was known at the time.

It is unfortunate that RL robbed you of what was probably going to be a topnotch victory if you had time to convince GR. I had a very high standard to follow up to when I subbed you :)

If I may say a word in favor of GR he really means well and I'm sure he's sincere in his apology. Please don't take this one bad experience too harshly. I hope I can play with you again in the future.
Posted May 29, 2020
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JoeSapphire: Gamerager is eliminated. He was Mafia Strongarm.
Woo, go town!

Thanks for hosting, the flavour was excellent!
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LASER97: As I told Joe over private message, I had been playing intentionally anti-town the first two days. Not to gauge reactions like I previously told SPF, but so that now all of my future actions are excused. It's what I refer to as "meta-busting."
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Lifthrasil: I refer to that as anti-team play. It's not a nice way to play. It spoils the fun of something that is supposed to be a team effort for purely selfish reasons. (so that you get a free pass in later games)

But you did succeed. You were the scummiest player by far ... some time you have to explain to us how that 'not getting lynched' superpower works. Everyone else would have been lynched upon such scummy play.
Yeah, I'm not a fan either. If Laser continues with this to try and normalise this behaviour, I will continue to vote for him.
Post edited May 29, 2020 by SirPrimalform
Posted May 29, 2020
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GameRager: *Fanfare starts to resound throughout the thread*
Well that was very generous of you. GOG's sale is just on time too.
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Carradice: The DocWars. That has a nice sound to it.
A theme for a future game perhaps?

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joppo: I didn't have enough time to ponder the implications that the cop reads would narrow the scum pool to my peers or I would certainly have done that. I just had time to decide that I would need to claim either role. By then I was certain the doc was SPF and cop was Cristigale. Since we only needed a mislynch I thought that the chance was higher that people would believe a scum!SPF than a scum!Cristi

SPF was right that I waited for his claim to bring the conflict right away. I hoped people would rush to vote either of us. Sadly they stopped to think who the remaining scum would be instead, and all went down the drain for us.
You did well in the short time you had. If you'd claimed cop and implicated Laser you would have tricked me for sure though and I would have accepted Cristi being Laser's scumbuddy easily. Honestly, Laser's D1-2 behaviour would have been the end of us if you'd been able to correctly exploit it. I thought your reads/claim post was well written and although I privately suspected you as mafia because of the long night thing, I was coming around to townreading you until the claim made me spit my tea everywhere.

Was there anything to my long night theory by the way?
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ZFR: Not only that, but this kind of play has a very negative Expected Value. You'll be drawn into Town more often than Mafia, so any advantage you gain by being more difficult to read gets offset by the damage you do to your faction Town with your anti-Town play, so you lose more in the long run.

It's like going all in every hand in poker. It makes you difficult to read, and those times that you actually get AA or any good hand, you'll win easily since no one will expect it. But since statistically you'll get a bad hand much more ofte, you'll just lose money in the long run (and yes, that will make the game less fun for others too).
That too. I will continue to vote for people for doing these kinds of things in order to discourage it. If it ends up town on town as it was in this game and costs us the game then so be it. It could easily have cost us the game this time if the scum had correctly exploited it. I would absolutely have believed Laser and Cristi being scumbuddies if a fake cop had shown up and confirmed what I thought I knew.
Post edited May 29, 2020 by SirPrimalform
Posted May 29, 2020
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LASER97: Obviously I don't play this way all the time, and I've only ever lost one game as town.
I assume you're claiming the Hotel Stanley as a win? I'm fairly certain we wouldn't have won quite as effortlessly if at all if you had stayed...
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joppo: And by the time I entered the scumchat D3 had started already, as you all can see. (So you were wrong SPF. I did not confer with my teammates at all. I was really reading the thread from the start all that time. I had a busy monday and had to read more than 700 posts in one day.)
Damn! Oh well, I was right for completely the wrong reasons. I was disappointed that someone thought I was saying Lonzi dropped out because of the stress of being mafia (I think it was Pooka?).
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ZFR: Yo! I just realized this!

2 out of 3. Allright! + 1 bonus point for lonzi's role.
Nice one. Those points have a cash value of £0.005 or you can exchange 200 of them for a backhanded compliment.
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JoeSapphire: The Solution to ZFR's riddle posed in the observer chat.

A voiceover of the opening paragraph.
These tracks have been removed. :(
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lonzi: Rager, I don't think your mistake was disagreeing about who was the correct kill, I think your mistake was holding the nightkill hostage and putting yourself above the team. I hope your takeaway from this game isn't that you should just defer to more experienced players. I'm not even that experienced. It's okay to be wrong about stuff, no one's perfect, it's okay to argue your opinion and disagree with your team, but I don't think it's okay to force your team to choose to either do as you say or run you over.
Oof, yeah. The NK should always be a shared decision.

Well played by the way, I didn't suspect you at all while you were still you!
Post edited May 29, 2020 by SirPrimalform
Posted May 29, 2020
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Vitek: As random passer-by who have no agenda in this, I would like to say I always considered meta here is that people want to enjoy the game. Not act hostile, behave like they are superior to others and should be revered or even to aggravate people on purpose just to establish some basis for their own meta reads.

The game should be played to have fun. If one only plays to win and doesn't mind alienating everyone else they can't be surprised if people are unwilling to play with them in the future.
<3

Play with us again, I miss you!
Posted May 29, 2020
General thoughts:

I think the game was still winnable for the mafia even after missing out on counterclaiming Cristi and even after Cristi's result reveals.

If GR and Carradice had been a bit quicker on the uptake they might have got us to lynch Laser the following day.

They failed the understand the implications of the results, that they couldn't both be town. They should both have immediately gone "well I know I'm town, so he must be scum".

What they did instead was a bit like if I'd seen Joppo's claim and gone "Well I guess he could be the real doc, I just don't know...".

If they'd got us to lynch Carradice then GR would have been able to kill Cristi and there would have been a chance of us lynching Laser (or me) the next day.

But it became pretty obvious you were buddies by your reluctance to bus one another, I think that was a bigger misstep than Joppo claiming doc instead of cop or anything else.
Post edited May 29, 2020 by SirPrimalform
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionGOG Mafia #66 - Lunch at Gog's Restaurant(1268 posts)(1268 posts)
(1268 posts)