So your first thing to post is trying to explain away the weird post(post 118), and then you turn it around on the biggest target/defender of trent you can find(which is of course me atm)?

I would consider this scum play, but then I realize that if I were lycnhed and flipped town you'd likely be one of the next targets & I don't know if scum would be that foolish.

Well, unless you ARE scum, trent is also scum, and you are trying to shift the target onto me?

Yeah, I know it wasn't there, that's beside the point I was making. My point is:

a) It should have been clear to him that he was mafia if his PM was anything like the sample PM that eventually showed up.

b) Why would anyone start revealing PM details unprompted on the first day of the game, let alone someone in the mafia faction? Flavour or role it doesn't matter. If it isn't already public knowledge then you should keep it to yourself unless there's a particular reason to reveal it.

End point.

Sure, it would be even sillier if he did that with the PM right there but it's still pretty silly even without it.

First off, welcome to the game!

As for time, I don't know. All I can tell you is when I logged on and saw his post I immediately posted. If I was to guess it was several hours between our posts, but I don't know for sure.

I read linearly, so at that point my view was based on a comparison to the way he played in the previous game, which we both participated in. My view has changed since, and I find it highly likely that GameRager could be the third scum alongside agent and trent.

I have a pretty strong feeling about GameRager being town. He's probably a bit unsecure about lynching trent at the moment, that's why so undecided. I myself have nothing against lynching trent, but also haven't voted because if we lynch him to soon, we get less info than later.

Look at this nice progression! It feels so natural!
*admires some more to keep it separate from the next quote*
Oh. That kinda ruined it.

"Heh."

No. :( I seem to have apprenticed with flub, and am thus always town. Someone should upgrade their dice and/or random.org with some memory instead of always relying on these memoryless probabilities!

In that vein, what are your thoughts on blotunga and redfire?

It was the only thing of any substance related to my slot, so yes, that's what I started with. Additionally, it'd puzzled me before I replaced in, so I was happy to find an explanation during my reread, and felt that sharing it would help clear up Korotan's post.

I wouldn't phrase it as "then I turn it around". At least, I don't see any relation between clearing up the timelord thing and voicing some of my suspicions of you.

On the off-chance that you flip town, who're your current scum picks?
Also, what are your thoughts on GameRager? Is he defending you because he truly believes you to be town, or because he *knows* you to be town? What about his willingness to vote you regardless?

Any pointers to what that feeling is based on would be very appreciated. (I have two myself, but for me they're overwhelmed by the things that point to him being scum. However, I realize I always see scene as scum due to posting style, and fear I might fall into the same trap with gamerager. Then again, I also remember correctly strongly town-reading him a couple of games ago, so that's not a big fear atm.)

GR is fairly high on my scum-list due to his reluctance to vote for Trent. My intention was to keep this under my hat until Tomorrow so I could see his "unfiltered" reaction to Trent's flip, but as he's now the subject of much discussion there doesn't seem like so much of a point.

I'm starting to come around to the GameRager is scum idea, simply because if Trent flips scum, there aren't many likely candidates.

Take ZFR's "Trent and Agent are both scum" post (212). It would take a very aggressive (and risk loving) scum player to instantly concur, yet Blotunga, Nmillar, SPF, and Lift all agreed in the posts following.

Pooka had one post saying that Trent could be scum, one post saying he's town. If GameRager isn't the third scum, he looks just suspicious enough to be my second choice. At the least, some more opinions from him would be good.
LOLChan brought out a post against Trent soon after the beginning of D2. Overall it looks town, unless he was coached during the night phase.
GOGTrial is likely town. It's the speed at which he's developed his analysis that convinces me.

Only after looking back at GameRager's posts do I notice how frequently he's posted defending Trent, and it's the frequency that looks off.

I'd say in order of suspicion: GameRager, then Pooka, then LOLChan

F*ing GOG ate another of my posts! I'll try to reconstruct it and hope that this doesn't become an accidental double post, if the eaten post re-appears!

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How did he turn that post around to target you? 1. the reference to the time lord is there, so it is reasonable to assume that it was a follow-up. 2. gogtrial didn't turn that post around to target you. He used your own posts to target you.


While that is true, we only get that info on people who are actually active and give input on their readings. You seem a bit too quiet. Almost as if you were avoiding revealing too much info about yourself.

both fit the 'keeping quiet' criterion, that's true. And we don't have a lot from Pooka either.

The 'coaching' aspect, which you mentioned, is also best disregarded. We falsely cleared two newbie scum in the last games on the argument 'they can't be scum. They would have been coached'. So that's a fallacy and especially trent wouldn't coach, as you realized.

So I come back to my previously stated point: if trent flips scum, my next vote will be GameRager. He fits the bill perfectly. First defending trent, then signalling willingness to vote trent (sensible, at some point the third scum will have to distance himself from his buddy or even join the train, if the lynch seems unavoidable)

However, if trent flips town, things look different. In that case GR gets Town points, since his defense of trent did not feel like buddying up to a townie, but felt more like it was him genuinely not wanting trent lynched. However LOLchan gets scum points for hopping on the trent train relatively quietly without revealing too much about themselve.


Let's wait and see how trent flips. Without that flip, everything else is just speculation. So let's wait a bit for more input from our lurkers and then get this Day over with. There is no point in dragging it out until deadline.

I also am not as good at this game as others, and as such they might have better reason to suspect trent due to their longer histories with the game/better insight into how to spot scum/etc.

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That day I mainly posted a ton because SPF was online and I wanted to shoot the bull a bit(as the parlance goes). I also(a bit because of my stubbornness and a bit because of me still being a greenhorn and not taking notes due to laziness/how I play, and a bit due to how I just didn't feel[at that time]that trent warranted a vote) felt that trent wasn't vote worthy at the time.

Now I just want to vote him to see what happens and get to the next "day" so we can analyze the wagons and see who has more egg on their face.

What's so heh about it? At the time I thought post 118 was a bit scummy/odd....although now I don't think scum would make themselves as visible as you seem to be doing....of course that itself could all be a ruse. I am so mixed up with regards to how I view you atm.

This is either town!you play asking him about the biggest me/trent supporters/defenders, or scum! you play trying to shift suspicion onto same. I cannot tell which.

Fair enough explanation


I meant how you (seemingly) used that post to "turn around" the suspicion I/others had of you and then proceeded to(seemingly) turn that same suspicion then onto me via focusing on me in the same post.

People in the legal profession would call this leading/framing. I am damned if I vote trent now and damned if I do not(as far as being suspicious to some), due to my defense of trent from earlier. That said, I will likely vote trent as his wagon seems almost certain(right now) & I want to see how he flips/analyze his wagon & those voting for him.

As you said before I always ALWAYS play this way, so it's not an indication of scum. Also if I were scum why would I post so much and defend trent so much? It would put me in the spotlight for the next "day" if he is scum, and if he is town people will likely also suspect me for my playstyle/etc regardless. If I were scum and trent is scum then putting myself in the crosshairs wouldn't be good scum play.

It was all that and what I posted to gogtrial in the post above this one(of mine).
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Tbh if I get a fairly high wagon on me the next "day" or whenever I would gladly hammer myself just to put an end to the whole thing/so people could analyze everyone so eager to lynch someone based on the concept/idea that "they defended another player too much".

Also I see my lynching as inevitable in every game, seeing as it usually happens due to how I play & I never get to game end(iirc) without dying.
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Yes, the player(gogtrial) who took one of his first posts to clear up suspicion on one of korotan's odd posts then turn suspicion on the biggest, most visible target seems town. *rolleyes*

Also as I said above, why would I defend trent so much or at all if I were scum? Wouldn't I have voted trent at some point and/or defended him very little to avoid suspicion?
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If I misworded that reply i'm sorry. I meant that gogtrial turned his own reply/post around to target me after trying to clear up suspicion regarding post 118, not that he turned post 118 around on me.


You make some slightly good points here....I will be watching all who defend me as well as those trying to paint me as scum.


Again I will state: Why would a scum(if I were one) make themselves so visible? If I were scum I would have kept my defense of trent to a minimum to avoid being thrust into the proverbial spotlight....especially if trent does in fact turn out to be scum...which, if I were scum, would basically give town the game by my actions.

I agree on waiting for the lurkers to add a bit more then we should get the "day" over with, at any rate.

You mean when I flip town, not on the off chance. Since Day 1 there’s really been no other suspects but agent and me after agent posted what he did. Before that the only other suspect was really blotunga, but I didn’t find him as scummy as others did. So who would I say is scum? I guess the highest chance would probably be you, but that’s only because Korotan never really posted anything yet I know he was on several times without posting. I try not to read into that though as I know he had real life issues. The way this game’s gone anyone could be scum because they’ve have the distraction agent created to hide behind.

As for GameRager, his play doesn’t seem far off from his play every game I’ve seen him in and he was scum in one town in the rest, so I would have him as neutral right now.

@Lift tbh I chose to stay silent because I saw nothing noteworthy except the start of builing a case against Gamerager which at this moment I don't feel warranted. I also wonder why trent now mentions Korotan/gogtrial lurking. While I feel the same way, would scum!trent attract attention to his scumbuddy when so close to lynch? If trent flips by some chance town we will have to look closer at this issue. What worries me is that I have very little on LOLchan and nmillar. Spf I feel just about the same as ever, for Gamerager I've already made my case, redfire feels townish, pooka neutral. Lift I feel mostly town, unfortunately we lost zfr whom I felt most town. Have I forgot anyone?

I also agree that there is not much sense in dragging this round out more than necessary.

@joe: votecount please

Is it just me or does the game feel like it's in a later stage than it is? I keep having to remind myself we're only on D2.