Sorry, but.... duuuuuh.

I can see how the Tracker can be a good weapon end game after the Ninja is defeated. All it would take is for him to investigate a person and if that person visited the NKed guy then it's over.

I can see how the Cop can be a good weapon end game after the Godfather is defeated...

RB isn't a particularly better wewaweapon than the alternatives. And he may block a frinedly. So...

One more vote for Cop or one more vote for Watcher will lock in Cop/Watcher as our roles. A whole different "Follow the Cop". :)

nice avatar, Joe!

I guess it came from reading the three mafia roles. Which somehow made the number three stick, even though it states further up that there are 2 scum. Something like 'ah, there's three candidates but only one gets to be a PR'. Stupid and inattentive - and it makes the Cop role less powerful than I thought in this game. But I still think we should get a Cop. And the way how ZFR enthusiastically jumps on that mistake and wants to see it as scummy is quite interesting.

But you are aware that GOG.com isn't one of the available roles? ;-)

Interesting thought. But since a Strongman does beat a Roleblocker and we don't have the option of a commuter et al in play, the Strongman is considerably stronger that you initially thought. I still think scum would be tempted to go for unblockable kills, if they don't go the Godfather route. But in the end it's a game of stone, scissors, paper.

Yea. Congratulations. You flushed out the entire scum team in pre-game. We can stop playing now. (hint: that was sarcasm)

This, however, is true. The roleblocker can interfere with the second town PR. Which is why the roleblocker is probably the weakest out of our choices.

I still prefer the double investigative power of Cop/Watcher. If we have both investigative options, scum can't block them both. A Godfather would be visible to the Watcher and a Ninja would be visible to the Cop.
A Doctor/Investigator coupling also has it's uses, but I still think that using two investigators is stronger.

Vote: Doc
If scum chose anything but strongman, the doc (and RB) are safe enough. if they chose RB, the doc and RB can both be made useless. However, I've always (aka all 3 games i've been in) considered Godfather to be the ultimate scum role.

Based on this thought, the doc is a good bet IF the cop is not counterclaimed and the doc is still alive. Maybe I should read HSL on the watcher thing, but I currently am sticking with my vote above.

Lift, please explain to me your reasoning: godfather shows innocent, but a watcher watches them go visiting. There's always the chance that watcher mistargets the cop, right?
Cop couldn't see ninja move, but could ID them. Same goes for Cop vs Strongman, right?

Mostly I'm concerned at how quickly this has turned into a tie and wish for more discussion, therefore I'm sticking with doc.


also, for Tradition (since Pooka points out that D1 isn't RVS, really):

Vote: agentcarr16 should be taken to lunch

I somehow forgot the part where scum gets to choose before anybody else. In which case, they can't really react to our vote results by choosing the most fitting power roles, but rather we have to guess at their power roles? Which changes how I perceive things.

I mean, I'm laying down my arguments on which roles to go for. I still think the doctor's a good idea for preventing night kills, and the cop will provide us with good info, which to me is a good balance between information and buying us some time to suss out the scum.

I'm not sure whether any of you are up for "hammering" Cop, but I'll put one of my votes in.
Vote Doctor

I mean, ZFR has a point in jumping on the mistake, and it should be something to be noted for later. At the same time, I don't think it's that bad of a mistake yet. Especially since the number of scum in Scales of Justice is fixed and public knowledge, unlike the other games where we have to guess and obtain clues on who is implying the scum are a certain number.

Also, I wanted to vote the entire website. :]

You have a point. If we do end up having a roleblocker anyway, he should figure out the other town power role. But I don't think we should afford having our other ability made null and void at any stage of the game.

Okay.

Lift's first post ever is #16, in which he claims that a cop can find two scum even if a godfather is in play (so lowkey basically saying there are three scum, something which I missed in catching up). First one to take issue with this is Wyrm, who highlighted the aforementioned part and said "wat?" Which honestly isn't a a specific question. It was more like "what you just said is all wrong," rather than "why three scum, Lift?"

Next up was you, who by the way, you didn't really ask him why he said there are three scum, you just said "This smells."

Lift then said "Sorry. One scum can be found. For a moment I thought we had 3 scum total." This was not an answer to my very next question. "Dear Lifthrasil, why did you think we had 3 scum total?"

His next post answers why he thought that, and I was satisfied with the answer, as it did answer my question and showed us the thought process in which he reached this mistake.

TL;DR - only Wyrm asked him in a sense of "this is all wrong," you just said his post smells, and I asked him on where he got that three from. And even if we assume all three of us asked "where did you get that three?" only my question gave me what I believe is a satisfying answer.

And honestly, I'm worried about you being overeager in your scumreads.

Be careful, plz.

Potayto Potahto.

Beating RB does make Strongman considerably stronger than my initial impression.

Agreed about some Rock, Paper, Scissors. It may well be down to scum preference/fears for which scum role gets chosen.

Something to keep in mind: 5 town deaths give scum the win. That's 3 mislynches and 2 night kills, with scum winning after that 3rd mislynch regardless of town roles. Killing a scum buys one more Day, but not one more Night. A doctor/RB save will give town one extra Night, but don't base planning around a successful save.

Whatever roles are selected, PRs should expect to have 2 actions. Plan accordingly.

Is this going to be another game where no one reads the rule set?

Not only that, but scum have a chance to influence which power roles go to town. :)

Thank you. Obviousuly I meant what I typed below. I noticed that slip myself when making that post, and fixed it at least once, apparently I missed it.

EBWOP:
"If scum chose anything but strongman, the doc (and RB) are safe enough. if they chose Strongman, the doc and RB can both be made useless. However, I've always (aka all 3 games I've been in) considered Godfather to be the ultimate scum role."

As I was originally typing this, the last votecount had cop & watcher tied at one away from a majority; a majority would have hammered those two roles, and I wished for everyone to have a chance to discuss it.

I have read the ruleset several times.

All this leads me to wonder--since none of the protective roles block ST [Strongman] (I was gonna abbreviate to SM, but decided not to)--they are basically useless in face of him.
How much do you take HSL's out-of-game analysis at face value without deciding for yourself? I'm not accusing, just wondering.

Red, what do you think about all this?

Game, when you get back online in a half-day or so, what do you think?

Strongman beats two roles, Ninja beats two roles, and Godfather beats the one role that uses a little less luck.

I don't know which analysis by HSL you are referencing, and I make my own decisions based on my own values/priorities.

I was referring to which afaik refers to stuff happening in the admin thread between games :O

Let me see:
Cop is probably the best role. Even if the Mafia chooses Godfather, we can still find the other mafia member and confirm town members.
So now we have a problem.
How do we find the real cop, and protect him from the mafia?
Watcher might work if mafia did not choose ninja. But as soon as watcher reveals themselves, even if they manage to get a mafia member lynched, then the remaining mafia will target them.
Medic is great but riskier. If the medic can't find the real cop, then not only is the cop down but we have no knowledge of the culprit. On the other hand, if this tactic works, the medic can stay hidden, the cop stays in play, and the mafia have to wonder each night whether they killed the medic. (Assuming they don't pick strongman.) Even if the cop does die, a hidden medic could be a major headache to the mafia while in play.
Roleblocker seems like a bad idea. There's too much chance of interfering with a town ability.
Wyrm said that mafia rarely picks strongman. Which could make medic a more compelling choice.
So it comes down to this: a chance for an early mafia lynch or a chance for less town lynches and eventual mafia identification.

After all that thinking, I'd personally want cop and medic.