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General discussionGOG Mafia #60 - HMSS Spectator(488 posts)(488 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted August 06, 2019
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flubbucket: snip
I stated
At the time i was thinking the doc could protect the same person every night, in which case the doc can keep the cop alive until we only face 1 scum.
This thinking was contradicted by a mod ([Post 87]"Doc can not protect the same person 2 nights in a row"[/p] I wish I had known this voting.). However, such was my thought pattern when I voted.
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Microfish_1: "If scum chose anything but strongman, the doc (and RB) are safe enough. if they chose Strongman, the doc and RB can both be made useless. However, I've always (aka all 3 games I've been in) considered Godfather to be the ultimate scum role."
As I was originally typing this, the last votecount had cop & watcher tied at one away from a majority; a majority would have hammered those two roles, and I wished for everyone to have a chance to discuss it.
NOTE: via editing, quotes got mixed up and I'm not quite sure what the above was originally, I think and hope my comments quoteing myself are correct.

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Lifthrasil: snip
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Bookwyrm627: Reading this, after reading your statemeout about ZFR-Pooka being town-town violence, leaves me thinking you're saying that either Micro or Flub are scum.
I've noticed several purposely mispelled words; wondering i this is part of breadcrumbing or not. Worth checking into, if I survive.

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Bookwyrm627: If the watcher saw two people show up, one of them is guaranteed to be scum, and the other is guaranteed to be town. If more than two showed up, then the mod is a bastard.
good point.

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Bookwyrm627: My personal favorite for scum is currently Pooka.

I've gotten mixed reads on ZFR. See previous posts about right words, stale tone.

I have no compunctions against lynching Micro or Flub. If it weren't his first game, I'd throw Red on that pile too. There isn't enough there to get a read on any of them, so they're all fair game.
[PPE: As I read, I'm seeing more stuff from Red. Interesting to see a more involved newbie; usually they're busy expressing confusion and doubt.]
[PPE: The winds of lynch turn toward Flub, and he starts posting more, including an accusation. Interesting.]

GR keeps waffling between "hey, some decent stuff" and "I know nothing :(".

I'm not sure about Trent. He might be my most town read, which isn't saying much.

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PookaMustard: and would rather the four people who have not voted to start voting.
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Bookwyrm627: I'm willing to vote for pretty much anyone except me. That said, I'd prefer not to D1 lynch the newbie as a matter of courtesy; however, we only have 2 mislynches if we don't hit scum, and he's as likely to have rolled scum as anyone else, so...

If anyone gets to L-1, they stand a very good chance of dying shortly after I notice.

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Microfish_1: vote: no-lunch for now.
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Bookwyrm627: Oh what the boop, no! Defend this! >:(

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ZFR: Why do you feel you should only vote someone if others support you?
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Bookwyrm627: Good question, which I would like to see answered.

I would also like to come back to this question after it gets answered.
1) Meh. i see his point fair enough, BUT it depends on which side I preconceive is scum.
2) yes. same. Willing to lunch ZFR.
3) Good, especially the later bit about lunching anyone but you.
3a) it is nice to see Red know what he is talking about as a newb to this forum's game. Please keep it up, Red!
3b) Yes, interesting. I almost want to vote him except his vagon rolled out and hit the trail.
4) Good to keep in mind, but not on D1 unless he proves scum beyond all duobt. Then again, the only person who I have noticed was "scum beyond all doubt" was Scene in Joe's last game.
5) mkay.
6) Tired of always being involved in someone mislunch, never voted this before, wanted to seek reactions. You and Lift gave me one.
7) I've gotten lost--has it been answered?

Honestly surprised pooka and zfr didn't call me on it, this looks bad for them.
I want to reread the trent/flub dynamic and the flub/lift one. and Lift/Pooka. Not sure I will, but i find them interesting.

I know I'm town, Lift thinks me or flub has been a bad boy, so I'll bow to his judgement for now and
vote flub
Posted August 06, 2019
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GameRager: If there are only 2 scum then the odds are a bit low the cop will even target the right person and find scum. Then they have to out that scum to the rest of us town without exposing themselves if they possibly can avoid doing so.

I would vote the most likely to be lynched just to HOPE we catch scum at this point(right now it seems flub and ZFR are tied at highest vote count) rather than let the day end with no one lynched and scum possibly kills someone off, but I don't know who to pick. :\
1. meh. thinking "out loud" here:
Once the cop has his target acquired, if there is a godfather, there is no reason to not blow his cover--unless the scum have a strongman instead, which is quite possible, so scratch this. The cop should try to stay alive ALAP, of course. If he's revealed and there is no doc left, ouch. If ST is in, doc probably gets removed no matter what. If no strongman exists that night, than the doc needs protection.
A) Gogfather and scum--blow cover, no point not to.
B) Ninja and scum. stay quiet, or desperately pray that the doc can protect you. better to be quietish.
C) Strongman and scum. Unless the doc got the Strongman and takes him to lunch, speaking up equals being kicked from the game. bad.
33% chance of reason to blow cover, 66% reason to not blow cover, 1% reason to blow on a dandelion instead.

2) go with your gut. you might be wrong, but we all are at times. I've been in an experiment and gotten some desired feedback, but not much.

Haven't seen Lift's response to Pooka's "How am I trying too hard" , am interested in the response. Seems like maybe bussing?

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Lifthrasil: Pooka was accused of trying too hard to appear scumhunting. But perhaps he's just town genuinely trying to find scum.
You were willing to look at your own post from a different angle and there is your choice of roles that looks rather towny. I still think that Cop/Watcher would have been best for Town.
Why not question Book who voted for Doc & watcher? (notably, he was one of few--if not the only one--who did not vote cop)

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GameRager: I might do a bit of roleplay while I wait for more posts to analyze(nothing has stood out to me much yet). Until then I dunno what to add.
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Bookwyrm627: Gun to your head, game is on the line, w/e, name one player you pick out as Town and one player you pick out as Scum.
Flub and conversely GR, probably Lift atm (was unsure previously, don't recall why).
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flubbucket: I stated clearly I liked them better. This is self-explanatory and therefore as "helpful" as it can get.
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Bookwyrm627: What is it you like about them? What arguments moved you to switch away from Roleblocker?

What attracted you to Roleblocker in the first place?
Was this ever answered? If so, i missed it.
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Microfish_1: and saddened because all fo them are better than I hope to be at this.
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Bookwyrm627: You'll get better with experience and by making lots of mistakes from which you can then learn. ;)

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Microfish_1: I kinda have to side with Pooka on the whole GR thing; I agree that he had time to think about it; I also know there are times one is literally stealing time from one's obligations to jot a note; I can see this occurring.
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Bookwyrm627: Are these arguments all supposed to support the same side, or are you going back and forth here?

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Microfish_1: from town!pooka's argument, I'd vote ZFR.
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Bookwyrm627: This looks really weird to me. Like, how do you even check this? Lynch Pooka, and if he flips town then lynch ZFR?

What if that is scum!pooka?

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GameRager: Eh, I will likely be lynched a few days in like per usual anyways
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Bookwyrm627: This isn't the first time you've said this. Perhaps this is a good time to remind you that if every lynch and kill goes through, we're at Lylo on D3.

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GameRager: but what can one do besides keep pointing to the fact that is how one usually always plays.
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Bookwyrm627: Proactivity!

Make some accusations! Be wrong! Try again! Be wrong again! Maybe eventually your accusation castle will cease sinking into the swamp! :)

[progress will take multiple games]

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RedFireGaming: I admire ZFR's boldness. If town, he risks looking scummy in exchange for a reaction. But if, as seems more likely, he is scum, then he is gambling on an emotional reaction in order to make his target look bad.
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Bookwyrm627: Which way do you lean? Do you think he's town or scum?
1) I make them, alright (see the previous game as proof).
2) Back and forth. GR had time to think but might not have had time to type it out. There have been times I've written a note online after I was supposed to be at the car; I can see this happening. He could have put his thoughts out there--I wish he had upfront, but I have to give him the benefit of the doubt. However, i can also see your narrative as having value.

3) ZFR vs Pooka: If I read it from T!Pooks view, ZFR is scum and Pooka is perhaps the only one calling him out on it...yet.
If read from T!ZFR's POV, Pooka looks bad, or at least tunneling. depends--if I live--on who i like more overall on a later day. I trusted Pooka last game and he snowed me.

4) I appreciate this advice, even if not given to me.

5) scummy, overall


=========================================================================

THOUGHTS from my brain:
We've dismissed ninja before I was satisfied, if ninja was picked, scum wish to distract from it. The other roles maybe have had their share of attention for now.
lift: no ninja (16)
Book: ninja (17 & 24)
ZFR: Tracker good if no ninja (31)
Lift: Ninja beats everything but cop (34)
me: ninja weak? (35)
book: warns of faults of doc, states
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Bookwyrm627: scum affect which town roles are chosen (41)
book: ninja beats 2 town roles (43), claims to not know of HSL's out-of-game-analysis re watcher vs tracker; the tail end of a convo that Book was involved in. (see https://www.gog.com/forum/general/forum_mafia_administration_and_general_discussion_1/post5391)
Red: Watcher okay if no ninja (45)
ZFR: I'm ninja [bad post] (57)
ZFR: accuses GR or Book of being Ninja (67)
Book: wait and see (68)
Lift: explains reasoning why watcher is only blind to ninja, notes who voted for what role (70)
GR: as result of reading it as joke posts, sees book as leans town.

book voted watcher & doctor (see 70), had pre-day 0 (post mafia choosing the role) thoughts of ninja being best
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Bookwyrm627: I'd have thought Ninja and Godfather were the obvious choices for scum, with Strongman being an unlikely curve ball attempt.
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Lifthrasil: Why? I think Strongman, with a possible Doctor around, would be stronger than a Ninja. If you disagree, please explain why the Ninja is more likely than the Strongman.
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Bookwyrm627: I haven't reprocessed from my previous thought that Roleblocker trumps Strongman. From that scenario, we have "Strongman beats Doctor, Godfather beats Cop, and Ninja beats Tracker + Watcher". Cop, Tracker, and Watcher are all investigative roles with varying levels of dodge-ability, while the Doctor has no investigation ability.

Knee-jerk reaction with "Strongman also beats Roleblocker" is that Strongman is still probably the weakest of the scum roles, since town is highly unlikely to select Doctor + Roleblocker, and both of those are roles that might be subject to mind games.

If I'm scum, I'm looking to block investigations. If the Doctor catches a kill, then so be it; it just means I need to out guess him better.
Conclusion: is Book tipping his hand in an effort to make everyone think "he's way too cagey to reveal himself like that, he's got to be town"? It worked with GR and thus far with me.
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agentcarr16: snap
@MOD: I'll stick with voting Flub for now, with apologies to him if he's town.
Posted August 06, 2019
@Lift, please tell me how I am trying too hard. This remains unanswered. I know you're going to be busy, but I'd appreciate it.

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RedFireGaming: I hope you feel better soon.
My reply to Trent is: Why only start responding to ZFR's counterarguments when someone votes against you? I'd also like to see which responses caused Trent to switch from ZFR to Pooka.
I hope to see his answers on both as well. You raise a good point. I think he did provide reasons for ZFR, but he did expand on them even more when he replied to you.


ZFR's wagon is going nowhere. Unhelpful. However, flub is becoming once again a viable option, and he has yet to convince me he's clean. Why, I can't help but feel that his responses have all been calculated, as in "what and when to post?". Last game when he was town and I was making my scummy case on him, I don't remember him being as calculating with his responses as he feels to me now.

unvote ZFR
vote flubbucket
Posted August 06, 2019
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Bookwyrm627: My personal favorite for scum is currently Pooka.

I've gotten mixed reads on ZFR. See previous posts about right words, stale tone.

I have no compunctions against lynching Micro or Flub. If it weren't his first game, I'd throw Red on that pile too. There isn't enough there to get a read on any of them, so they're all fair game.
[PPE: As I read, I'm seeing more stuff from Red. Interesting to see a more involved newbie; usually they're busy expressing confusion and doubt.]
[PPE: The winds of lynch turn toward Flub, and he starts posting more, including an accusation. Interesting.]

GR keeps waffling between "hey, some decent stuff" and "I know nothing :(".

I'm not sure about Trent. He might be my most town read, which isn't saying much.

I'm willing to vote for pretty much anyone except me. That said, I'd prefer not to D1 lynch the newbie as a matter of courtesy; however, we only have 2 mislynches if we don't hit scum, and he's as likely to have rolled scum as anyone else, so...

If anyone gets to L-1, they stand a very good chance of dying shortly after I notice.

Oh what the boop, no! Defend this! >:(

Good question, which I would like to see answered.

I would also like to come back to this question after it gets answered.
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Microfish_1: 1) Meh. i see his point fair enough, BUT it depends on which side I preconceive is scum.
2) yes. same. Willing to lunch ZFR.
3) Good, especially the later bit about lunching anyone but you.
3a) it is nice to see Red know what he is talking about as a newb to this forum's game. Please keep it up, Red!
3b) Yes, interesting. I almost want to vote him except his vagon rolled out and hit the trail.
4) Good to keep in mind, but not on D1 unless he proves scum beyond all duobt. Then again, the only person who I have noticed was "scum beyond all doubt" was Scene in Joe's last game.
5) mkay.
6) Tired of always being involved in someone mislunch, never voted this before, wanted to seek reactions. You and Lift gave me one.
7) I've gotten lost--has it been answered?

Honestly surprised pooka and zfr didn't call me on it, this looks bad for them.
I want to reread the trent/flub dynamic and the flub/lift one. and Lift/Pooka. Not sure I will, but i find them interesting.

I know I'm town, Lift thinks me or flub has been a bad boy, so I'll bow to his judgement for now and
vote flub
Just a bit of advice and a suggestion: Try to label the bits of the post you're replying to with numbers or separate the post bits up to make it easier to figure out what you are replying to with each bit...it would make it easier for others to then tell what bits of your reply pertain to what bits of the posts you are replying to.

===========================

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GameRager: If there are only 2 scum then the odds are a bit low the cop will even target the right person and find scum. Then they have to out that scum to the rest of us town without exposing themselves if they possibly can avoid doing so.

I would vote the most likely to be lynched just to HOPE we catch scum at this point(right now it seems flub and ZFR are tied at highest vote count) rather than let the day end with no one lynched and scum possibly kills someone off, but I don't know who to pick. :\
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Microfish_1: 1. meh. thinking "out loud" here:
Once the cop has his target acquired, if there is a godfather, there is no reason to not blow his cover--unless the scum have a strongman instead, which is quite possible, so scratch this. The cop should try to stay alive ALAP, of course. If he's revealed and there is no doc left, ouch. If ST is in, doc probably gets removed no matter what. If no strongman exists that night, than the doc needs protection.
A) Gogfather and scum--blow cover, no point not to.
B) Ninja and scum. stay quiet, or desperately pray that the doc can protect you. better to be quietish.
C) Strongman and scum. Unless the doc got the Strongman and takes him to lunch, speaking up equals being kicked from the game. bad.
33% chance of reason to blow cover, 66% reason to not blow cover, 1% reason to blow on a dandelion instead.

2) go with your gut. you might be wrong, but we all are at times. I've been in an experiment and gotten some desired feedback, but not much.
1. Good tips/info.

2. What experiment? In game or elsewhere online/irl? Just curious.
Posted August 06, 2019
Very short since I have to leave: I see that flubb is at L-1. I'm not going to hammer him.

@Micro: still scummy. You throw baseless accusations around. Spelling errors as hidden messages? Not answered questions as bussing? Really? ... You write a lot, and yet, as far as I can see, you didn't answer the one big question that you were asked: why did you vote no-lynch? My vote stays on you.

@Pooka: you're directing your question at the wrong person. You were accused of trying too hard (and of LAMIST) by others. Perhaps you should ask them. I said, you might also be Town just trying to scum-hunt and to answer questions asked. Sure, you can still be scum pretending to be town. I didn't discount that possibility. Discounting that possibility would be stupid. But my main beef with you is still that you participated in the quicktrain to secure Doc/Cop. However, the two others who helped drive that train (Micro and flubb) are scummier.
Posted August 06, 2019
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Lifthrasil: Very short since I have to leave: I see that flubb is at L-1. I'm not going to hammer him.

@Micro: still scummy. You throw baseless accusations around. Spelling errors as hidden messages? Not answered questions as bussing? Really? ... You write a lot, and yet, as far as I can see, you didn't answer the one big question that you were asked: why did you vote no-lynch? My vote stays on you.
1. Why not hammer and hope we hit scum? Unless you are hoping the cop finds scum later during the "night"?

2. I am guessing Micro knew at the time we might not hit majority to lynch so he went with the most likely outcome/option. I could be wrong, though.

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PookaMustard: I hope to see his answers on both as well. You raise a good point. I think he did provide reasons for ZFR, but he did expand on them even more when he replied to you.

ZFR's wagon is going nowhere. Unhelpful. However, flub is becoming once again a viable option, and he has yet to convince me he's clean. Why, I can't help but feel that his responses have all been calculated, as in "what and when to post?". Last game when he was town and I was making my scummy case on him, I don't remember him being as calculating with his responses as he feels to me now.

unvote ZFR
vote flubbucket
Well now flub is near lynch....let's see where this goes.

==========================

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Lifthrasil: Very short since I have to leave: I see that flubb is at L-1. I'm not going to hammer him.

@Micro: still scummy. You throw baseless accusations around. Spelling errors as hidden messages? Not answered questions as bussing? Really? ... You write a lot, and yet, as far as I can see, you didn't answer the one big question that you were asked: why did you vote no-lynch? My vote stays on you.
1. Why not hammer and hope we hit scum? Unless you are hoping the cop finds scum later during the "night"?

2. I am guessing Micro knew at the time we might not hit majority to lynch so he went with the most likely outcome/option. I could be wrong, though.


===========================

Roleplaying again:

"GR, getting bored while waiting to see what comes of the day, pops in a nice music cartridge while ordering more cheese girl spread for his space adventures."
Posted August 06, 2019
@Lift. I said so up front and I think again--
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Microfish_1: I'll do a d-1 vote which I have not yet seen on this forum, despite people arguing over the pluses and minuses of said action.

Since I am not convinced of the guilt of anyone (except Joe, he ditched us for his live-action musical) enough to vote for them,

vote: no-lunch for now.
since then, I've become more convinced that Flub would make a viable luncheon.
Lift, I never said my thoughts were viable, overall, just put them down as (hopefully) interesting thoughts.

And "baseless" accusations? meh, thoughts with some degree of truth somewheres, and lot of answering questions asked of me, etc. I didn't accuse anyone to the point of voting for them...yet. Other than flub.You have yourself and you "any lunch is better than none" bit to thank for that. I relooked at stuff, decided Flub looked perhaps worst, and jumped.

GR: good points. Also, meant to say "doing an experiment", and the experiment was to see what/how people would react to a real no-lunch.

Seeing how quickly Pooka jumped makes me unsure of him.

Voting Flub
Willing to lunch Book, Pooka, ZFR, Lift.
Unwilling to lunch others.
Posted August 06, 2019
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Microfish_1: Seeing how quickly Pooka jumped makes me unsure of him.
> deadline literally less than 24 hours away
> my preferred wagon nowhere close to consensus
> my change of vote to second preferred wagon which seems to go somewhere is a "quick jump"

Stay classy, GOG Mafia.
Posted August 06, 2019
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GameRager: ...........
1. Why not hammer and hope we hit scum? Unless you are hoping the cop finds scum later during the "night"?

..............
So you want to rush to hammer without a role claim??

Vote: GameRager
Posted August 06, 2019
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Bookwyrm627: Oh what the boop, no! Defend this! >:(
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Microfish_1: 6) Tired of always being involved in someone mislunch, never voted this before, wanted to seek reactions. You and Lift gave me one.
>:(

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Bookwyrm627: Good question, which I would like to see answered.
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Microfish_1: 7) I've gotten lost--has it been answered?
Post 184

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Microfish_1: Honestly surprised pooka and zfr didn't call me on it, this looks bad for them.
Pooka and ZFR didn't call you on what?

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Microfish_1: I know I'm town, Lift thinks me or flub has been a bad boy, so I'll bow to his judgement for now and
vote flub
Hm.

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Bookwyrm627: Gun to your head, game is on the line, w/e, name one player you pick out as Town and one player you pick out as Scum.
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Microfish_1: Flub and conversely GR, probably Lift atm (was unsure previously, don't recall why).
Which ones are which? You have three names there, but I can't tell which ones you think are town or scum.

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Bookwyrm627: What is it you like about them? What arguments moved you to switch away from Roleblocker?

What attracted you to Roleblocker in the first place?
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Microfish_1: Was this ever answered? If so, i missed it.
Post 139

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Microfish_1: book: ... claims to not know of HSL's out-of-game-analysis re watcher vs tracker
Looking back at my post, I can see why you might think this, but it isn't actually true.

HSL has done a fair bit of analysis on a number of different things. I vaguely remembered some conversation that included him talking about some of the roles, but I wasn't sure where it was, I didn't recall the details, and I had no interest in digging when I might not know it even if I found it. I asked you for a specific reference because you (presumably) knew precisely which conversation you were remembering and you could probably locate it again.

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Microfish_1: You have yourself and you "any lunch is better than none" bit to thank for that. I relooked at stuff, decided Flub looked perhaps worst, and jumped.
Hm.

I like seeing people vote, but I'm a little torn after the talk of experimenting.
Posted August 06, 2019
This was important enough to segregate into a separate post.

-----

flubbucket - 3 (GameRager, Microfish_1, PookaMustard)
Pooka - 2 (trentonlf, ZFR)
Micro - 1 (Lift)
GR - 1 (flubbucket)

Not voting: Bookwyrm627, RedFireGaming

-----

By my reckoning, the current vote count stands as above.

Flub is NOT at L-1 yet.

Pooka is still my favorite for scum; I'm content making him viable, though it still needs two more votes to hit lynch.

Vote Pooka

That said, I'll hammer Flub if anyone else votes him.
-I'm currently getting a neutral read from him; I haven't seen enough to make me want to preserve him, especially against No Lynch.
-There's something niggling at me, but I don't know what to make of it.

Trent and Lift have indicated they won't join Flub's wagon, which leaves ZFR or Red to provide that last vote for Flub.

**We have maybe an hour and change left before No Lynch.**
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agentcarr16: poke
Can we get an official vote count, please?
Posted August 06, 2019
Vote Count

PookaMustard - 3 votes (trentonlf, ZFR, Bookwyrm627)
flubbucket - 3 votes (GameRager, Microfish_1, PookaMustard)
GameRager - 1 vote (flubbucket)
Microfish_1 - 1 vote (Lifthrasil)

Not voting: RedFireGaming

flubbucket and PookaMustard are tied for closest to lynch, at L-2.

With 9 players, 5 is a majority.

The deadline is approximately 2 hours from now.
Post edited August 06, 2019 by agentcarr16
Posted August 06, 2019
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Bookwyrm627: Flub is NOT at L-1 yet.
But... but... You said L-2 is the new L-1...

I'll vote flub to prevent a no-lynch. Pooka is still my top choice though, and GameRager has moved to a spot above flub too.

Vote flub - purposely not bolded since I don't want Book to hammer immediately. flub, consider yourself at L-1 for the purpose of claiming.
Posted August 06, 2019
For crying out loud. 1 hour left.

Vote flub
Posted August 06, 2019
Vote Flub

I'm used to seeing Flub mention how he should be lynched, and I haven't seen it. I want to see what it means; I suspect this will either be quite good (scum) or quite bad (PR). Or uninteresting, because he simply didn't do it this game (VT).
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General discussionGOG Mafia #60 - HMSS Spectator(488 posts)(488 posts)
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