I didn't see this when looking back, and I'm wondering how many other players missed it.

Because I liked the replies from both of you when each of you was questioned.
Pooka was accused of trying too hard to appear scumhunting. But perhaps he's just town genuinely trying to find scum.
You were willing to look at your own post from a different angle and there is your choice of roles that looks rather towny. I still think that Cop/Watcher would have been best for Town.

This means I still think that scum had a hand in pushing the voting process to a premature Cop/Doctor choice. Either because they wanted a Doctor or because they wanted to avoid a Watcher. The three deciding players there were Micro, Pooka and flubb and I'm quite confident that at least one scum hides among those three.

Going back over Micros post I noticed something off: in post 35 he argues, that the Doctor is a safe bet if scum chose anything but a Stongman. He then goes on that he thinks Godfather to be the ultimate scum role. That reads as if he assumes scum chose godfather and therefore Doctor is a safe choice. So far, so good. However, his other choice is Cop. Which is inefficient against Godfather. Which doesn't fit the fact that he uses the assumed presence of a Godfather as an argument for the Doctor being safe.

@Micro: if you did assume that the Godfather is a likely choice, then why did you vote Cop and not Watcher? Watcher would be effective against a Godfather.


So, until a satisfying explanation of this discrepancy, Micro takes second place. I still prefer flubb (I'm loyal that way). But Micro would be a good second choice. Pooka is a distant third. But I don't think that ZFR is scum anymore.

Agreed. ZFR is just a townie who's sarcastic responses turn everyone against him.
His argument here should have removed all doubt. He can't both be an impatient scum who jumped the gun AND a cool criminal with icewater veins who avoided changing his vote even as a negative outcome was about to be hammered.

I think I just messed up a quote in post 153. That should be ZFR in the second one.

LOL, the votes in Day 0 mean absolutely nothing at this point. If I was scum I would have no issue at all voting for Cop and Watcher while knowing I already selected a Strongman for my team. The objective of scum is to appear as Town while subtly misdirecting actual Town to the wrong conclusions. So imagine a Strongman is found in the game and then people go back and see who voted for Doctor or Roleblocker and then assume they are more likely to be scum then someone who voted Cop and Watcher. That's the whole reason I didn't like ZFR's suggestion of trying the "Follow the Cop" after the Doctor was selected at the last minute. If he knows there's a Strongman in play and the Cop reveals themselves then the Cop is taken out of the picture and scum now have no worries about being found out as the only investigative role Town has is dead. So if you are basing your vote on that then it's a very weak vote.

You ignored the second part. Would you sit on your votes knowing Cop+Watcher are 1 vote away from being hammered?

I liked your answer overall, but you didn't really answer me about Pooka. You wrote about me , but the only thing you wrote about Pooka is:

This is not a reason for why you think he's town, but just a reiteration of saying that he could be Town. So again, why? Is it just a gut feeling or is there something he said in particular?

If you read what I wrote “So imagine a Strongman is found in the game and then people go back and see who voted for Doctor or Roleblocker and then assume they are more likely to be scum then someone who voted Cop and Watcher” then you know the answer is yes.

Me personally I see the votes as more WIFOM than any useful tool to base town or scum on, but after 20-30 games on here I know people will not be able to help themselves and will use the Day 0 votes to look for scum. So if I was scum I would probably vote for roles that made me look more Town.

So you think that as scum who picked Strongman, it's more beneficial to keep sitting on Watcher and Cop and risk making your Strongman trump card completely useless, for the possible potential benefit of appearing Town which will only happen if:
a) The Strongman is not you.
b) The Strongman gets lynched and revealed.
... and on top of that, that potential benefit is still marred by WIFOM.

I highly doubt it.

On top of that all, you assume that I'd coolly pull it off, then having nicely put myself in the "must be Town if Strongman uncovered" position, I proceed to blow my cover by purposely being over-agressive, and drawing all attention to myself.

That really doesn't follow...

No, it is just a gut feeling. He did care about my reason, he replies without getting too defensive ... but going back through his posts there is nothing definite that tells me 'yea, he is most likely town'. He could write all that as scum, sure. But there is also no definite scum tell. The impression 'he tries too hard' is only a feeling too. ... I'm not really sure whether I can tell town-pooka from scum-pooka. He was quite good at appearing towny when he was scum. But that doesn't necessarily make him scum in every game where he appears to be towny.

Man. 2 days to go and nowhere near consensus. I would prefer flubb, but no one else seems to see that. The old flubb-immunity strikes again. Or, as a fallback, I would still be fine with Micro. I'm not going to vote trent today. ZFR is leading, but as I said I don't think anymore that he's scum. So I'm not voting him either. By default that would leave Pooka... but I have a bad feeling about this.

Pooka remains my top choice. Willing to go flub, Micro, trent.

Nobody strikes me me as particularly super townie, so there is no one on my "definitely won't vote" list, with the possible exception of Red for his newbie protection.

Vote flub

Hmm. Not sure if sarcasm or not. In case it ain't, remember the thing called WIFOM. He could be overeager scum who is using his overeagerness to give the impression that he's just being town-ZFR. Which I am betting is the current case.

I on the other hand prefer ZFR, but would not have any problems settling for flub. Anyone else, and I'm reluctant about voting them. Add to that that in the past days, there wasn't much to discuss about (that hasn't been already discussed in a decent capacity) and it seems we're now nearly in the "waiting on the deadline" phase. I am waiting to see how RFG vs. trent evolves, and I hope we do learn something from it. Other than that,, I think to-Day is becoming a drag, and would rather the four people who have not voted to start voting. This way, we'll easily have a consensus.

Also, since you do bring it up (along with many others)...how am I "trying too hard?" The answer to this would be important for clearing any doubts about myself.

Wouldn't basic odds dictate that would be the likely outcome at some point?

If there are only 2 scum then the odds are a bit low the cop will even target the right person and find scum. Then they have to out that scum to the rest of us town without exposing themselves if they possibly can avoid doing so.


I would vote the most likely to be lynched just to HOPE we catch scum at this point(right now it seems flub and ZFR are tied at highest vote count) rather than let the day end with no one lynched and scum possibly kills someone off, but I don't know who to pick. :\