Bookwyrm627: Masons, if you exist, then please claim now. Mason claims would allow each townie (except the Masons themselves) to effectively clear at least 3 players out of the 10. That narrows the field quite a bit, and seeing who
isn't cleared by the mason claims could be very enlightening indeed.
If you are a group of 3 Masons, then that goes triple, since scum
can't claim that.
Hypothesis: Bookwyrm is mafia. What does he gain from this?
If Bookwyrm is lone godfather, then he knows there are zero or two town PR dice rolled. If masons reveal themselves, he knows everyone else is VT, so he doesn't need to fear roleblocker, vig or doctor messing up his plans.
If there are no masons, there's a resonably high chance of two townies having PR powers (even if both dice rolls came up on the same letter).
=> Is gaining this knowledge worth the exposure he gets? Does the knowledge help mafia more than it helps town?
If Bookwyrm is part of a 2-man mafia team, then he either knows there are four town PR dice rolled (with no godfather in play), or he knows there are six town PR dice rolled (with a godfather in play).
The number of permutations on what the roles could be, and what info he would gain from a mason-reveal, is rather high, and I don't see any that are particularly useful to call out. What is worth mentioning here is that there's guaranteed to be a mafia roleblocker, who - with a mason reveal - would have a relatively small pool of candidates to pick from to block the remaining PR(s).
=> Is gaining this knowledge worth the exposure he gets? Does the knowledge help mafia more than it helps town?
FWIW, I do think that a 3-mason team should claim. I'm far less certain that a 2-mason team claiming would be more beneficial to town than it would be to scum.
supplementscene: @GOGTRIAL - Blotunga stated you misrepresented him and I've claimed the same about some of your posts. How do you feel about this after he flipped town?
I don't recall the words "misrepresent" being applied to any of my posts, offhand, nor alternative with the same meaning. Do you have specific pointers to the posts from either of you to refresh my memory?
I know
I have accused both you and him of misrepresenting my words (mostly you, but him in
#371). Here's thread searches for
misrepresents and
misrepresenting.
Blotunga asked me why I questioned him and brought focus to him. I did this because
his catch up post after a long absence
felt all sorts of wrong to me. It still does. He made it clear his play was deliberate. I thought - and think - that it wasn't in town's best interests. That it came from a town player doesn't change anything about it.
As for your case on me: As far as I can tell, it consists of me having the audacity to suspect you, me being the third to vote you due to being a few minutes slower than scum agentcarr in writing a post, and then a whole lot of you not understanding what I wrote and thus interpreting it in a way that makes you think that it makes me look bad, right? I still think most of that is extremely frustrating, and could come from either town or scum you. My reasons for voting you are mostly for reasons beyond that (for lack of better alternative, you deserve lynching regardless of alignment due to anti-town play - you're also suspicious for not having done the early game things that town-you did in the two games where you were town, and you're now newly suspicious for SPF's behaviour toward you (though of course SPF might've expected you to be lynched, and thus wanted to claim town-points for having defended you; isn't WIFOM just the best?)).
supplementscene: I then ask him his opinion of Blotunga. He initially misses this. I ask him again and he replies. He's clearly not reading everything, something Mafia feel they don't need to because they know everything
Okay, there's
no way you're not doing this deliberately!
(More posts like this one from you though, please? I like you much better this way. Although it also reminds me of the strong start you had as mafia in #57.)
GameRager: I am suspicious of scene for the reasons I listed previously, so I am going with his vote and also voting the same. If Joe is proven town then I will vote for scene the next day as that will make me more suspicious of him.
GameRager: I'm damned(in everyone's eyes) if I do and damned if I don't, basically. If I started the wagon on scene and he turns out to be town I will have made myself look suspect, and if I don't when I find him suspect then I also look suspect.
As the votes you gathered should tell you, this is anti-town behaviour. Far more so than:
blotunga: I'm trying to play in a way regardless of alignment that my playstile can't be nailed down as AI. I will do this in the future too, even if it gets me lynched this time
Could we have
two relatively new town players making that mistake two days in a row??!
I'm going to have to re-evaluate how much trust I'm willing to put in my earlier "SPF didn't talk to you at all, thus you're town" call.
Speaking of
@all: I'd really like some feedback on that line of thinking:
gogtrial34987: I think SPF is too good a player to completely avoid interacting with fellow mafia on D1. That means that Microfish, PookaMustard, GameRager are very likely town in my book. (But of course WIFOM.)
It's one of the few solid data points we have. Can you think of counter-arguments, examples of SPF behaving or not behaving this way as scum (anyone know offhand which games he was scum in), or anything else like that? Just like having three masons reveal themselves would be really strong, clearing three town players this way (no matter how prone to newbie mistakes they might be) would be a great boon.
Also, I think I spotted where GameRager's thinking came from:
Bookwyrm627: I suspect it was because Agent was mostly floating. Killing him doesn't tell town much, while killing some of the more active players may provide clues.
GameRager: Killing active players may provide clues, but we don't want to lose many town as it would hurt us in the end if we kept doing so.
Everyone who now wants to suspect a gogtrial-gamerager scum team, please form a line on the left, take a number and wait your turn.
Microfish_1: GOGtrial--IF scene is innocent, I strongly think GOGtrial reeks (maybe he only needs a shower?)
Walk me through your thinking there?
I'll freely admit I deliberately went after scene right from the start. I know him to be a chaos risk, and I wanted to sort him while we could still afford it, and get some things moving instead of letting scum hide in RVS. Would scum-me risk that on town-scene? (People might remember I deliberately haunted scene on D1 in #55 as well, but then I *knew* right from the start that he was scum, as I was even scummier. This time I'd be regular scum without the knowledge that scene would be town (or a very tiny chance of being SK))
gogtrial34987: From those around, it looks like either me or trent could hammer blotunga.
For scene, we'd need Joe + bookwyrm + spf to move (assuming dedo already is gone), or two of those if blotunga shows up.
I'm guessing blotunga it is?
Microfish_1: Gog's push for M!SPF to move to T!blot looks...weird.
Please read that again. SPF already was on blotunga's wagon, which was at L-1. I was looking at who was active at that very moment. Of those people, trent and me were still on scene's wagon, and could hammer blotunga right away, OR three players (out of Joe, bookwyrm, spf and flub) would need to move from blotunga to scene.
supplementscene: So this is confirmation of what I asked earlier, that you only skimread the thread.
This is very bad townplay because if you are town you can't get true reads of anyone.
BUT Mafia players skimread because they don't need to work out who's who - they already know
So, so, so deliberate.
