PookaMustard: Judging by the previous day, scene was a wagon that went up to L-2 before blotunga's took over. Meanwhile, Joe didn't even have a one-vote wagon by the end of Previous day. I think he had a RVS vote on him or two, but that was it. It is more likely that by the end of htis day, Scene will have a sizeable wagon.

This logic of voting if there was a wagon would apply if it's nearly the end of the Day and you need a lynch to go through, but we're still at the start. Even Joe's wagon itself consists of only you and scene (wagon starter) so...I'm still confuzzled. You could have voted scene instead.

dedoporno: I suspect that each of them thought the other one was too quiet and was maybe hiding a PR. Or they might have went for a low kill information (this seems more likely for the mafia and less so for the SK but who knows).

As for blotunga's wagon, I'm still waiting to hear from scene but here are some other thoughts on it. First of all, it was obviously a mistake but, to be honest, I don't think it was a bad wagon in itself and under the circumstances we had and in the vacuum of D1 it was acceptable. A few things to note:

Joe "started" the wagon with an RVS vote and never moved from it. The vote was said to be essentially baseless but later on it gained reasoning that solidified it in an real vote. That might have been a natural and organic transition or Joe was presented with good reasons to stick to his vote and not have to look for reasons to vote others. I tend to prefer the former as Joe said he wants to see SPF as mafia which checks out. Unless, of course, that was just D1 distancing and the SK surprised them which would probably be perfect for scum-Joe is it's making him look better for it. I'll leave this for now though as when I started writing this paragraph I had Joe more on the Town side of things but as I went on I started to hesitate what all of this means. I want to see him as Town as he is way too attractive to be scum.

Next is flub who joined the wagon after blotunga's questionable actions and explanations. Not much to say there. Can be opportunistic scum or over-vigilant Town who reacted on somewhat poor Town play.

Then it was myself, dedoporno - pretty much same the exact same thing as flub. Maybe I should be seen at as a tad more suspicious since this is now becoming a real wagon even though it takes quite a while to actually pick up.

Then it's Wyrm. Wagon is starting to roll now as we kind of need it (or the rival wagon) to pick up speed and Wyrm is bloodthirsty for it but this isn't exactly AI for him and under these conditions it becomes even harder to distinguish opportunistic voting for mislych from voting for the sake of securing a lynch on someone you actually find suspicious. Even more so when the votee has made himself look subpar.

Then SPF. Scum. He mentioned at one point that he would support the other wagon (scene) in case of need but never again got back to it even though at one point we were struggling to seal blotunga's. This may or may not mean something.

Then scene. This is pretty much the most interesting one. There is no point inn doing an overview, everyone has their observations of scene so far. I want(ed) to give it poor Town play as it's not the first time but it's not just one or two missteps. The weirdness keeps going and going. Some things that irk me at the end of the day, in the context of blotunga's wagon are #374 and and the next couple posts about lynching either of them. 374 felt redundant in the context of them basically battling each other for survival, it's almost as if it's to make the vote look a bit better and not only for self-preservation but out of need to secure the lynch. I'm not sure if I'm not reading this in a biased way now after my view has been tainted by everything preceding but it is what it is.

Finally trent with the hammer. This is a tricky one. I want to see trent as Town as based on his exchanges and couple of actions he felt like it. But then switched back from scene to blotunga even though he [trent] said earlier that he believes both are probably Town. I perfectly agree with lynching for the sake of getting a lynch to work with but I find it slightly odd when you vote for someone you down find scummy, especially in trent's case. He is one of the people who would always vote for a player they find scummy no matter what. So there is a bit of a contradiction there which I'm not exactly sure how to read.


That's my view of things so far. Thoughts and opinions are welcome and encouraged.

Bookwyrm627: When thinking about what Agent did, put yourself in his shoes for a few minutes. Start with his victory condition, and then think through what you would need to do to achieve it.

SK has a certain freedom in that he needs to kill EVERYONE; he can go for any target of opportunity. He needs to make sure the mafia gets killed at SOME point, but he doesn't want them to go out too early because then everyone starts hunting specifically for him. It wouldn't hurt if he could claim credit for killing one, but he needs to avoid being too active in killing mafia so they don't retaliate against him.

I'd guess that Agent went for someone on the outskirts. I can't remember a single thing SPF did that was notable. He existed, he sort of posted, but he never left a mark. I'm guessing Agent wasn't aiming for Mafia, he was aiming to kill someone that wouldn't lead back to him. Based on events, Agent likely took Investigation Immune; there had to be a Town Vig targeting Agent in the mix if he took Bullet Proof, and as Dedo mentioned there isn't a lot that would paint Agent as a target for a Vig. Future nights should clarify this.

Also keep in mind that Agent didn't know anything more about the scum team than Town did. Don't try to analyze his reactions to identify his partners (or mafia) because he literally had no allies in this game. It might be worth looking over his posts for scum hunting, but we have no guarantee that he was actually doing any scum hunting, since mud serves him much better than clarity.

I plead the fifth. If I did kill him, it was either because I thought he deserved or because I wanted a low information kill or because he had the nicest skin and I wanted it. One of those.

Bookwyrm627: Masons, if you exist, then please claim now. Mason claims would allow each townie (except the Masons themselves) to effectively clear at least 3 players out of the 10. That narrows the field quite a bit, and seeing who isn't cleared by the mason claims could be very enlightening indeed.

If you are a group of 3 Masons, then that goes triple, since scum can't claim that.

gogtrial34987: From those around, it looks like either me or trent could hammer blotunga.
For scene, we'd need Joe + bookwyrm + spf to move (assuming dedo already is gone), or two of those if blotunga shows up.

I'm guessing blotunga it is?

GameRager: Ok then, but why use the word LUNCH instead of lunch yet again? Odd wording....sending singals to other scum/town or what?

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If that's true and you get lunched then I will gladly go after whoever voted you as suspect/possible scum, starting with scene.

dedoporno: You are suspicious of scene and you would rather mislynch first and then go after scene than go for him directly? Wat?

Microfish_1: For all reasons which have been enumerated by others, I cannot see Joe as scum...yet.

GameRager: Care to enlighten us skimmers? :).

and one I missed when skimming)

GameRager: Hmm, you make a good point with that last one. o.0

Vote JoeSapphire

(Be aware that I am doing it mainly to see if you are scum trying to get town lynched, and if he is proven town and gets lynched I will have my sights on you the next day)

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I wouldn't do that.....;)

GameRager: I'd vote scene if there was a wagon on him atm, but there isn't. If that changes I would gladly change my vote, though.

JoeSapphire: do YOU think it would be a missedlunch?

dedoporno: I can't be certain but 'd like to think that it will be, yes. That isn't the point though. What baffles me is that GR seems to believe scene is scum which suggests that you must be Town (otherwise we are looking at some idiotic and unnecessary early bussing which makes no sense of the next to last scum player). GR would rather lynch the townie first in order to prove that his main suspect is scum instead of just going for the scum directly. This makes absolutely no sense to me.

GameRager: I'd vote scene if there was a wagon on him atm, but there isn't. If that changes I would gladly change my vote, though.

GameRager: I am suspicious of scene for the reasons I listed previously, so I am going with his vote and also voting the same. If Joe is proven town then I will vote for scene the next day as that will make me more suspicious of him.

...............

GameRager: ...............
As I said(how could I explain it simpler?): I will join the wagon and if Joe turns out town then I will analyze his wagon compared to the first day's wagon and pick the most likely suspect to vote next...

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GameRager: .....................
I'd vote scene if there was a wagon on him atm, but there isn't. If that changes I would gladly change my vote, though.

GameRager: ..............

I'm damned(in everyone's eyes) if I do and damned if I don't, basically. If I started the wagon on scene and he turns out to be town I will have made myself look suspect, and if I don't when I find him suspect then I also look suspect.

As I said: If scene gets a town lynched then I know he's likely scum and also know to analyze the wagon against Joe. I could unvote and revote scene but atm I am waiting to see where this wagon goes. If a wagon starts on scene i'll likely change my vote.

GameRager: I'm damned(in everyone's eyes) if I do and damned if I don't, basically. If I started the wagon on scene and he turns out to be town I will have made myself look suspect, and if I don't when I find him suspect then I also look suspect.

PookaMustard: what is the best playstyle for a SK to ensure his victory condition?

supplementscene: @Bookwyrm - why switch wagons and not switch back at any stage? Why not argue harder for your preferred wagon if you preferred me?

supplementscene: Good to hear, I'm off to edit all of the really suspicious posts I've made now I've been given the okay on this

dedoporno: Mason claims I do understand but I don't think gogtrial and Pooka were talking about masons.

dedoporno: As for the numbers I didn't look at things from this perspective. Mylo and Lylo are still quite far away to worry about.

dedoporno: Heh. I didn't mean it in that way and I'm pretty sure you are aware of that.

GameRager: If I started the wagon on scene and he turns out to be town I will have made myself look suspect, and if I don't when I find him suspect then I also look suspect.

Microfish_1: Are you sure you didn't do to have a nice head to mount on your wall?

Microfish_1: Please explain further. Refresh my memory, if you prefer that phraseology. How would it enable others to clear yet others? I saw nothing in the setup rules/mafia wiki to indicate that masons cannot be scum, or have 1 of 3 masons as scum. Pleas enlighten me.

JoeSapphire: but also I use it because once the filters at my work picked up on something I'd written in the game and got me flagged up by some senior staff to explain why I was talking about killing cops. So LUNCH is less likely to set off any weird scanners or whatever too.

Microfish_1: Else, I would go for one of (in order). 1, gogtrial. 2, trent. 3, book. 4, joe/game/flub (but i currently don't want to). 5, i'm not sure, but lean dedo--again i don't want to.

Bookwyrm627: ...............

live as long as you can and kill as many people as you can.

..............