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General discussionGOG Mafia #59 - Previously on Mafia...(1130 posts)(1130 posts)
(1130 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted June 14, 2019
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gogtrial34987: Moar voting from you, too!
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PookaMustard: Alright, if you say so. I'll put my money where my mouth is.

VOTE SUPPLEMENTSCENE
I’m all for lynching Scene, but tell me this. You balked at Scene’s wagon when it was at 5 votes 3 Days ago because of the speed it got there, that’s a valid reason. My concern now is that you put him at 5 votes again and the reasons you gave of him saying the wiki doesn’t help town and that he’s sure Gogtrial is scum are both things that happened before his previous wagon got to 5 votes. Why is it now an acceptable wagon for those reasons yet it was not then?

For now
Unvote Supplementscene
Posted June 14, 2019
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PookaMustard: Doesn't help that he's sure gogtrial is scum, though I have to look into this a little deeper.
That sounds like a nice thing to do with lots of wiggle room.
Which specific "this" are you referring to, and when are you planning to look into it?
Please be sure to let us know your conclusions when you have them?
Posted June 14, 2019
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GameRager: Ok then.....but you didn't say why you voted for them. :)
I did say my reasoning for suspecting him to dedo. His suggestion that suggesting reading the Mafia Wiki for any reason is possibly a scum trying to coach his buddies makes him sound weird, on top of how he's so sure that gogtrial is scum. Add to this that right now, he's the most suspicious player, whilst blotunga isn't that bad in my view.


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dedoporno: Oh, I totally forgot about that as it was somewhat tongue-in-cheek but thanks for answering. At least now I know you went back and read my posts. Speaking of which, why didn't you do that in the first place (if you actually didin't, that is)?
That point I replied to was made two days ago. Makes sense, as then my wifi wasn't working at all (and if it did, very horribly slowly). Yesterday I was using mobile data, which I fear I probably plowed through too much of it this month, so I didn't do much yesterday. By today, the internet is in much better condition and now I am able to keep up with the game.

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dedoporno: I haven't based my suspicion on meta in this case since I also haven't played a tremendous amounts of games with him to be able to form some sort of expectation. It's based on his vote/unvote and subsequent explanation of his motivations and the way they were presented. All of that with a sprinkle of uneasiness in my gut, although I can't be 100% sure about that last bit.
I think he is genuine with his reasoning but messed up the execution by bringing scene to L-2, which could have ended with the two remaining lynches arriving earlier and without the information he sought. Honestly not sure if it makes sense from a mafia perspective, since he put himself out there when he could've just stuck to his guns.


> is finished with this
> notices two more posts

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trentonlf: I’m all for lynching Scene, but tell me this. You balked at Scene’s wagon when it was at 5 votes 3 Days ago because of the speed it got there, that’s a valid reason. My concern now is that you put him at 5 votes again and the reasons you gave of him saying the wiki doesn’t help town and that he’s sure Gogtrial is scum are both things that happened before his previous wagon got to 5 votes. Why is it now an acceptable wagon for those reasons yet it was not then?

For now
Unvote Supplementscene
Yes, I balked at the speed of the wagon, which if it was left unimpeded, would've given us less information if he was hammered. We are now closing to the deadline, we've seen several more reactions from people, including dedo and microfish who were absent (though the latter isn't helping much with reading him), and blotunga. Had it ended with the full seven votes right after blotunga's vote, we wouldn't even have anything to go by for dedoporno and Microfish!

That, and gogtrial has a point. We had better vote earlier rather than wait until the deadline is looming, we scramble, and then end up with a no-lynch. I still feel I messed up last game by not voting until it was too late. Right now, he's the scummiest looking of the players in my opinion, so I'm willing to vote him.

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gogtrial34987: That sounds like a nice thing to do with lots of wiggle room.
Which specific "this" are you referring to, and when are you planning to look into it?
Please be sure to let us know your conclusions when you have them?
By this I mean your interactions with scene. Since I'm really in the mood for Mafia today, I am to check it in a few minutes. Hopefully Adalia lets me search two usernames at once.
Posted June 14, 2019
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PookaMustard: Alright, if you say so. I'll put my money where my mouth is.

VOTE SUPPLEMENTSCENE
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trentonlf: I’m all for lynching Scene, but tell me this. You balked at Scene’s wagon when it was at 5 votes 3 Days ago because of the speed it got there, that’s a valid reason. My concern now is that you put him at 5 votes again and the reasons you gave of him saying the wiki doesn’t help town and that he’s sure Gogtrial is scum are both things that happened before his previous wagon got to 5 votes. Why is it now an acceptable wagon for those reasons yet it was not then?

For now
Unvote Supplementscene
If you originally thought scene was scum and that's why you voted for them, why drop the vote so quickly? Do you think they might be town or are not 100% or close to it sure that scene is scum?

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GameRager: Ok then.....but you didn't say why you voted for them. :)
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PookaMustard: I did say my reasoning for suspecting him to dedo. His suggestion that suggesting reading the Mafia Wiki for any reason is possibly a scum trying to coach his buddies makes him sound weird, on top of how he's so sure that gogtrial is scum. Add to this that right now, he's the most suspicious player, whilst blotunga isn't that bad in my view.
Thanks for clearing that up(sometimes I miss stuff when I skim posts).

I myself would rather be as you seem to be right now with re: to a nolynch. I'd rather we lynch someone and ANALYZE THE RESULTS rather than end in a nolynch at this point.
Posted June 14, 2019
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GameRager: If you originally thought scene was scum and that's why you voted for them, why drop the vote so quickly? Do you think they might be town or are not 100% or close to it sure that scene is scum?
The only thing I am 100% sure of is that I'm Town. The reason I dropped the vote on Scene is because Pooka gave me pause with his vote, more specifically the reasons behind his vote since they were viable reasons 3 Days ago when he balked at Scene's wagon. He got blotunga to remove his vote, and now puts Scene back in the same position with blotunga having the ability to get back on the wagon and put Scene at -1. It made me wonder if I was wrong about Scene and Pooka is manipulating the vote so Scene will be lynched, and the only reason to do that is as scum.
Posted June 14, 2019
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GameRager: If you originally thought scene was scum and that's why you voted for them, why drop the vote so quickly? Do you think they might be town or are not 100% or close to it sure that scene is scum?
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trentonlf: The only thing I am 100% sure of is that I'm Town. The reason I dropped the vote on Scene is because Pooka gave me pause with his vote, more specifically the reasons behind his vote since they were viable reasons 3 Days ago when he balked at Scene's wagon. He got blotunga to remove his vote, and now puts Scene back in the same position with blotunga having the ability to get back on the wagon and put Scene at -1. It made me wonder if I was wrong about Scene and Pooka is manipulating the vote so Scene will be lynched, and the only reason to do that is as scum.
Good points....I will keep my vote on scene for now but I might change it if someone catches my eye before deadline.
Posted June 14, 2019
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Bookwyrm627: Where/when, and how so?
Post 74 he questions my RVS vote because he's voting seriously.

Post 123 he is urging scene to consider my RVS vote suspicious.

Post 187 he has decided that I am scum-buddies with scene because I RVS voted scene in order to leave the wagon that literally hadn't formed yet (!?!) but that I obviously knew would form... somehow?

He has also thrown shade my at vote for trentonlf because he doesn't believe that wagon positions are enough to vote on. If that's his opinion, fair enough, but it seems odd to me.

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supplementscene: he gets 2 for the price of 1
Heh

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gogtrial34987: From your vantage point of a leaf in the wind, do you have any thoughts about Bookwyrm, GameRager, microfish, and Pooka? Would you leave flub for any of them?
Leaning town on Bookwyrm. His fixation on myself is a symptom of his admiration for myself and should in no way be concerning.

I am neutral on all three of GameRager, Microfish_1, and PookaMustard. I would never leave flubbucket, but I'm unlikely to vote for him at present.
Posted June 14, 2019
Well, this has grown fast. What was originally "checking on both scene and gogtrial" grew to rereading the game from the very beginning. I'm about halfway to here. Until then, I jotted down some notes in Notepad about them. From what I'm reading, I actually feel better staying on scene, especially with the deadline approaching close. Here they go.

Couple bits: [name]-[number] means the post numbered [number] by the player called [name]. The arrows "-->" are my responses to what was being said.

Hm, interesting, I didn't pay the first few posts much attention, but gogtrial begins immediately with voting scene. Post 8: "let's sort you out while we can still afford the distraction." I can see gogtrial already had his eyes set on scene. The voting scene with that I quoted could've been a stronger argument that scene could have used, rather than the "oh no, mafia wiki helps scum players!"

On the way, I noticed this. I'm surprised scene hasn't jumped on this saying by bookwyrm, Post 7: "Unless you have access to a QT. You can ask questions in the QT if/when it is open. Scum." This sounds like the very thing scene would pick up as "scum coaching scum."


Posts 34-scene, then 40-gogtrial, then 43-scene, do show us an interesting thing: scene brings up scumhunting the SK, is questioned about it by gogtrial, drops it in 43. gogtrial reminds him of it in 48. Scene answers it in 53. Also in 53, he says: "New Mafia players may make the mistake of drawing excessive attention to themselves in that role. I know I did in my last game. So if an experienced player Mafia randomly draws newbies he maybe tempted to coach them early. What better way than directing them to mafia wiki and asking them to view the roles."

--> I honestly think a better way to coach scum would be in tells that can be caught by a person who is already scum to begin with. For example in Secret Hitler, Hitler is looking for clues on his fascist buddies, who would try to send info that he can pick up as they're on his side. They don't just say "read the rules" or "check this setup carefully," that's GENERAL ADVICE.

In 90, scene says this when analyzing Trent:
"Trent's claiming I'm arguing about the set up. I'm not I'm highlighting Gogtrial potentially coaching mafia players. Which could be a mistake on my part but let's be accurate about what's being discussed."
--> I'm pretty sure the topic was about gogtrial saying to check the C9++ roles, then we entered into a topic involving SKs and the involved roles and how this could affect town. Also ZFR did say how everything was built, with there being no extra elements or twists, he double emphasized the word "Randomized" and said "random.org." So Trent does have a point in that scene was arguing about the setup while he was duking it out with gogtrial over the "coaching."

gogtrial-123, he says that scene's arguing about the setup matches mafia!scene, based on meta from previous games (#54-#57). Hmmm... Also mentioned in #64.

A selling point for scene-174 is that he...said he never reads OP. "I never read OP regardless of alignment but I've skimmed OP since and don't believe the statement about random draw is there. I don't particularly care about game set up, that was never my point when I quized Gogtrial, I thought he was potentially coaching."
Which is really interesting to say the least.
Posted June 14, 2019
Going AFK for the day(irl day)...have fun everyone

BTW: Could OP/a player remind me when the deadline is? I tried skimming for it but I have to leave soon to do stuff and I couldn't find it.
Posted June 14, 2019
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GameRager: BTW: Could OP/a player remind me when the deadline is? I tried skimming for it but I have to leave soon to do stuff and I couldn't find it.
Saturday. Around afternoon Europe, noon/morning Americas.
Posted June 14, 2019
MORE POOKA NEWS

scene-219 is an interesting one, and I'm glad I reread the whole game to figure out the string of events that led up to it happening.

- gogtrial-8: gogtrial votes scene
- trent-18: trent votes ZFR (mod vote), this innocent post will be important for later
- scene-34: scene appears and votes gogtrial, accuses him of coaching by mafia wiki
- microfish-89: also mod votes ZFR
- scene-90: scene says this about trent-18
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supplementscene: So the observation I held back in Post 34 was that Trent voted for the Mod. I thought this was perhaps a way of being agreeable and non confrontational. It wasn't particularly significant and I wanted to see how his game developed
Which I am not sure why he brought it up, but...
- gogtrial-123: gogtrial notes scene-90 and his observation of trent-18, asks him about microfish-89
- gogtrial-185: gogtrial notices scene ignored the question about the mod votes in gogtrial-123 and asks him about it again, along with three other questions
- scene-190: finally answers the question about the microfish modvote, saying that microfish has poor participation in this game compared to another he's on.
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supplementscene: 1. RE: Microfish. I'm finding Microfishes generally participation to be far less than his first game. This is more of a concern for me at this stage. I know he's had enough time to play another similar game we've been playing together, so I question why he hasn't engaged. This is more telling for me than a vote on ZFR and I'm hoping he comes in with some heavy posts soon.
- microfish-204: micro brings up the mod vote, saying he brought it up in the first game and will bring it up in later games as a way of proving a semblance of participation and reading
- gogtrial-208: he replies to microfish-204, saying that he wasn't questioning the mod vote but rather why scene found trent-18 noteworthy but not microfish-89, not until gogtrial asked him twice about it, and claimed to have dismissed the vote as unimportant, with quote,
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gogtrial34987: If scene is scum, then this difference in attitude toward near-identical actions might point a little bit more in your direction than in trent's.
- scene-219: oh dear, this is when scene says he's sure gogtrial is scum.
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supplementscene: OK now I'm actually sure you're Scum. Instead of picking up on my point that I personally know from out of game Microfish has time to play and isn't posting as much you linger on about a mod-vote implying I'm defending him when in fact I've been quite critical. Maybe your play when I show up Town is - see Scene was inconsistent so it's his fault we mislynched him.

You've also defended Trent twice now, on the mod-vote and secondly on him taking position 4 on the wagon.
scene is basically suggesting that gogtrial questioning of why he didn't find microfish's modvote noteworthy and how he saw it as unimportant from scene's view and then how it would reflect on Micro more than trent, implies that scene was defending micro when he criticized him for the lack of participation...

Still, despite going after this chain of events, I'm not sure how that makes gogtrial scum? I see this whole chain as one long train of misunderstandings, and given how much we've seen, I don't think scene's going to hit the brakes anytime soon. I think it more likely he's not ever going to hit the brakes. Even if he was somehow Town and not Mafia, he's doing a swell job distracting us from the actual scum. From reading this, I have good feelings about gogtrial being Town, and blotunga leans Town to me, but I can discern nothing else about the other players.

I'll just stop here. My brain is being fried. Make of that what you will, but I don't think it speaks well of scene.
Posted June 14, 2019
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agentcarr16:
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gogtrial34987: From your vantage point of a leaf in the wind, do you have any thoughts about Bookwyrm, GameRager, microfish, and Pooka? Would you leave flub for any of them?
He'll never leave me!!! We're cuddle bunnies.

I do wonder, though, if he's worthy of being followed or checked out just to make sure he's true to me.
Posted June 14, 2019
Sorry for being absent for so long, jusr catching up.

From the looks of it the scene wagon still is the most "liked". At first I thought the scene/trent dynamic might hint to some distancing, but trent's unvote made me think, if by some chance scene turns out scum, if I were scum, I'd hang onto his wagon, else look scummy. So this is a thing to keep in mind imho.

Ofc my vote/unvote might be seen the same way, but hey that's a risk that I assumed.

Dedo's vote on me might be genuine, I have stated previously that I'm trying to play in a way regardless of alignment that my playstile can't be nailed down as AI. I will do this in the future too, even if it gets me lynched this time, though I'd prefer not to (get lynched I mean).

So far I see no reason to move to one of the other wagons, I'm still not convinced scene is scum, but might be willing to lynch him if nothing better comes up to avoid a no-lynch.

Also not sure why I'm being singled out for the last few pages, since I'm yet to see some meaningfull input from Microfish for example. @Microfish are you SK trying to stay low?

So, summary: would lynch flub (trying to create a wagon behind me, still wonder why), scene, and Pooka (almost forgot about him), he makes me feel try-hard. I don't remember him being so in the previous game, but might be just a change of playstyle.
I have little read on gogtrial, carr, joe and spf and almost none on micro and gamerager. @wyrm i would like also some thoughts from you.

That's all folks for now, will check in later.
Posted June 14, 2019
@blot, no; I'm town trying to figure everything out. There is noone I doubt enough to vote for yet. Last time i jumped the gun and got horribly squashed for my pains.
Posted June 14, 2019
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PookaMustard: scene is basically suggesting that gogtrial questioning of why he didn't find microfish's modvote noteworthy and how he saw it as unimportant from scene's view and then how it would reflect on Micro more than trent, implies that scene was defending micro when he criticized him for the lack of participation...

Still, despite going after this chain of events, I'm not sure how that makes gogtrial scum? I see this whole chain as one long train of misunderstandings, and given how much we've seen, I don't think scene's going to hit the brakes anytime soon. I think it more likely he's not ever going to hit the brakes. Even if he was somehow Town and not Mafia, he's doing a swell job distracting us from the actual scum. From reading this, I have good feelings about gogtrial being Town, and blotunga leans Town to me, but I can discern nothing else about the other players.

I'll just stop here. My brain is being fried. Make of that what you will, but I don't think it speaks well of scene.
Because IIRC he misrepresented my position because:

1. Gogtrial asks Scene about Micros Mod Vote and why

2. Scene says 'actually whats more suspicious than Micros mod vote is his lack of participation because I know hes been active on Discord'

3. Gogtrial after reading this - 'what a double standard from Scene, he notes Trents mod vote but not Micros.'

That's the twisting of the truth that actually happened here. I don't see how Gogtrial gets that leap of logic without being Scum.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionGOG Mafia #59 - Previously on Mafia...(1130 posts)(1130 posts)
(1130 posts)