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General discussionGOG Mafia #59 - Previously on Mafia...(1130 posts)(1130 posts)
(1130 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted June 12, 2019
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gogtrial34987: What do you make of everyone's reaction to this unvote of yours? Could you walk me through your thinking for both the vote and the unvote, insofar as you have anything to add to what you posted along with those actions?
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blotunga:
No thoughts on the reactions and votes to your vote/unvote?
Posted June 12, 2019
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dedoporno: Yet you jumped (in passing) on the person who was gaining vote speed every other post?
Quite right, I wanted to see if someone jumps quickly do do L-1. But then I reconsidered, because I still have the feeling it would be a mis-lynch and I didn't want scene in that position while I wasn't online for a longer period. As I said, at this stage while I haven't made up my mind I try to do different things and see what the reactions are.

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gogtrial34987: No thoughts on the reactions and votes to your vote/unvote?
Sorry, I had no time to get into the details. So far Pooka's reaction seemed natural, flub's seemed exagerated and rather convenient #2 position on my wagon after Joe started my wagon on a non-reason. So that's why I'm quite willing to lunch flub atm. Dedo asked some pertinent questions which I'm glad, and you too. Ofc course none of that is AI, in Joe's game HSL was one of the best when it comes to asking questions, pointing out stuff etc.
Posted June 12, 2019
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SirPrimalform: Hmmmm. This is all in character for Scene, but I'm not seeing a huge amount that looks AI to me. He tends to ask odd questions that are answered in the OP in pretty much every game.
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gogtrial34987: What I saw in my skim of games #54-57 is that he made (bad) assumptions as both town and mafia, but actually only asked (odd) questions when town. If you have the time to look for yourself, please do so; I'd be genuinely interested to see if you come to the same conclusion, or if I'm suffering from some kind of confirmation bias after realizing Bookwyrm might be on to something.

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supplementscene: So the observation I held back in Post 34 was that Trent voted for the Mod. I thought this was perhaps a way of being agreeable and non confrontational. It wasn't particularly significant and I wanted to see how his game developed
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gogtrial34987: I find it interesting that after a single further post by him (#84), you now consider his game to have developed enough to share this observation.
What did you think about Microfish's mod vote in #89?

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supplementscene: Gogtrial - Now this is somewhat significant, a third vote on Day 2. Gogtrial states he knows it's a third vote.
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gogtrial34987: Just so there's a record of the timeline: when I wrote my post, only Bookwyrm had voted you. I reloaded the game thread before posting, saw agentcarr's post (at 2 minutes old), pondered if that was going to affect my vote, decided not, added my final question, and posted my vote about 5 minutes after agentcarr.

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supplementscene: Gogtrial doesn't vote for me after our initial interraction only after the votes move to 2. Why didn't he vote for me initially if he thought it seemed suspect?
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gogtrial34987: Because my read of you based purely on our interaction was a slight town lean, mostly due to the way you structured your suspicion of me (see #64 for me alluding to that). Bookwyrm however pointed out your attitude toward the setup, which was a perspective I hadn't considered at all (being too focused on myself, and not having had to examine your behaviour in game #55 too closely, as I already knew you were mafia). So I went to skim the first couple of pages of games #54, #55, #56 and #57, and observed different behaviour between town-you and mafia-you with regards to setup, with your current behaviour more closely matching mafia-you.

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supplementscene: Trent's claiming I'm arguing about the set up. I'm not I'm highlighting Gogtrial potentially coaching mafia players.
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gogtrial34987: Trent wrote:
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trentonlf: The OP clearly states the setup and how everything was determined, yet Scene is trying to put doubt out there about the setup
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gogtrial34987: Which I'm reading as alluding to:
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supplementscene: Which could be a mistake on my part but let's be accurate about what's being discussed.
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gogtrial34987: More than one thing can be discussed. You:
- accused me of potential coaching (which trent didn't comment upon)
- seem uninterested in setup details / question mod information about the setup (which was the first of the two reasons given by trent for voting you)
- questioned why I asked Bookwyrm for his reasoning behind the vote, which trent read as "trying to accuse me" (and was the second of the two reasons given by trent for voting you).

Side question here: Was your questioning of my motivation in #63 intended as the "accusation" that trent reads it as?

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supplementscene: I'm asking why Gogtrial needs to ask other players opinions about my posts rather than forming his own.
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gogtrial34987: For the record: Did my answer to that question in #65 make sense to you? Any thoughts about it?

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supplementscene: Agent looks less suspect as he only took the vote to 2. So if I get lynched on Day 1 - please look at Gogtrial, Trent, Blotunga throughout this game
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gogtrial34987: You don't find agent suspicious for putting an RVS vote on you when there's already a serious vote on you?

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supplementscene: the reasoning from Agent, Gogtrial, Trent, Blotunga was all sloppy and lazy.
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gogtrial34987: Interesting contrast.

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supplementscene: Gogtrial even said I appeared to play similarly to my Liberal game
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gogtrial34987: No, I said it is dissimilar to the start of your play the last time you were mafia.

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supplementscene: 2. I've made more analysis
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gogtrial34987: You keep using that word...

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supplementscene: 4.
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gogtrial34987: Not cool, man. Not cool at all.

bump please?
So you initially had a town read of me but after Bookwyrm replied to you saying 'it was mainly frustration vote' you thought he'd stumbled on a major tell right? And then SPF and Joe both state 'this is typical Scene town play'.

You then state you read my prior play. Really? Am I stearing the conversation towards set up in this game? Or am I asking why you're asking players to read the set up? Am I aluding to the fact that you're coaching mafia? It is harder to play Mafia without giving yourself away than it is to play Town. Reading the set up helps you know the pitfalls of your behaviour giving you away to Town.

And if you read those threads as you say you have can you state how I slipped in them? Because it had nothing to do with game setup in either. Although in the first one I did use PoppyAppleTrees focus on roles to jump on her wagon. Note how I changed my mafia play the second time I played it.

ALso you claim I 'started very strongly in game 57' - how so I barely posted until Day 2. Are you sure you actually read these games, I mean it'd be understandable if you didn't
Posted June 12, 2019
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supplementscene: [Trent] defended putting SPF at 1 from hammer that saw Town lose game 57. Yes it's his fault they lost that game. So if anything he's less suspect for those reasons.
While I don't disagree, I'm not sure of the relevance to the current situation. Can you elaborate?
Posted June 12, 2019
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supplementscene: 3. I analysed Trent, Agent and Blotunga in that exact post
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Bookwyrm627: Which is my point.

You said "And all of a sudden I have a wagon of 5 ... after being the most ... dare I say analytical poster."

You had not performed any analysis of Trent, Agent, or Blotunga prior to that post, so analysis of them doesn't mark you as the most analytical.

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supplementscene: 4. You haven't discussed the analysis of their motives.
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Bookwyrm627: Trent's reaction in this game feels much like my own.
I'm keeping an eye on Gogtrial to see what he does and what he doesn't.
Agent has provided nothing to analyze.
Comments have already been made about the quality of Blotunga's vote.
Does it? Trent claimed and I quote:

"Scene is trying to put doubt out there about the setup and it seems to me he’s trying to create an issue where there is none. The more we talk about non issues the easier it is for scum to hide."

Is that what you're claiming? I can see I aggressively pounced on perceived slips, which could be mistaken for an attempted misslynch but purposely trying to put doubt out there, is that your perception?

I claimed I'd been the most analytical poster and up until that point I'd tried to analyse posts and no one else had

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SirPrimalform: While I don't disagree, I'm not sure of the relevance to the current situation. Can you elaborate?
I don't think he's concerned at putting Town players 1 from hammer as Town. That doesn't necessarily make him Town here. From my recollection as Mafia he likes to move where he feels the group mentality is heading lynch wise and do so quite early.
Posted June 12, 2019
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SirPrimalform: While I don't disagree, I'm not sure of the relevance to the current situation. Can you elaborate?
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supplementscene: I don't think he's concerned at putting Town players 1 from hammer as Town. That doesn't necessarily make him Town here. From my recollection as Mafia he likes to move where he feels the group mentality is heading lynch wise and do so quite early.
Although if he's town he doesn't know the other person's alignment, I think it's a bit disingenuous to say he isn't concerned at putting Town players at L-1. He isn't concerned about putting players that he thinks might be scum at L-1.
Posted June 12, 2019
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supplementscene: I don't think he's concerned at putting Town players 1 from hammer as Town. That doesn't necessarily make him Town here. From my recollection as Mafia he likes to move where he feels the group mentality is heading lynch wise and do so quite early.
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SirPrimalform: Although if he's town he doesn't know the other person's alignment, I think it's a bit disingenuous to say he isn't concerned at putting Town players at L-1. He isn't concerned about putting players that he thinks might be scum at L-1.
Should read potential town. As far as a Town Player is concerned no one is town or mafia until they're dead and we flip so going to L1 days before deadline as Town is a reckless play when you also suspect others.

Closing the deadline early is also in Mafia's interests because less info.
Posted June 12, 2019
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SirPrimalform: Although if he's town he doesn't know the other person's alignment, I think it's a bit disingenuous to say he isn't concerned at putting Town players at L-1. He isn't concerned about putting players that he thinks might be scum at L-1.
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supplementscene: Should read potential town. As far as a Town Player is concerned no one is town or mafia until they're dead and we flip so going to L1 days before deadline as Town is a reckless play when you also suspect others.

Closing the deadline early is also in Mafia's interests because less info.
I agree it's reckless, especially for D1.
Posted June 12, 2019
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dedoporno: Yet you jumped (in passing) on the person who was gaining vote speed every other post?
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blotunga: Quite right, I wanted to see if someone jumps quickly do do L-1. But then I reconsidered, because I still have the feeling it would be a mis-lynch and I didn't want scene in that position while I wasn't online for a longer period. As I said, at this stage while I haven't made up my mind I try to do different things and see what the reactions are.

....
When you voted for scene, were you thinking that he's probably town?

I had a look back at what you said at the time;

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blotunga: ....
Well, I do think there are scum on scene's wagon, and while he seems fishy, not yet lynchable for sure. Unfortunately with the likelyhood of a godfather, we can't even trust investigaitons.
Very well, holding the guns for now
....
Could you explain what you mean by:

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blotunga: ....
Well, I do think there are scum on scene's wagon,
....
All on that for now.


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JoeSapphire: But I'm probably right anyway
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dedoporno: You know it! Don't you?
I actually don't I'm just great at guessing!



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JoeSapphire: Bookwyrm's isolated some huhworthy portions of blotunga's post, and boy are they huhworthy. I guess these aren't my pinstripe-tinted glasses after all!

I'm more confident with blotunga's lunch than I am with supplementscene's right now. But it's early days yet.
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flubbucket: Agreed.

His Unvote was just too opportunistic.

Vote: blotunga
Flub, because I'm interested: What's your take on Joe at this stage of the game?
Posted June 12, 2019
I'm actually tempted to put an RVS vote on Agent for his lack of explanation for his votes

@Agent add some reasoning for both of your votes please

My current most suspicious list:

Blotunga - took my wagon to L2 on a flimsy analysis and unvoted when Pooka questioned him. However I'm not interested in taking his wagon to 3 votes this early

Gogtrial - I don't feel quite right about his supposed analysis of former games as a reason to lynch me after supposedly initially reading me town. If he has read those games it'd be an incredible amount of effort for this game. I don't believe his takaway messages for those games to be correct but I await his response on this.

Trent - he claims my initial posts muddyed the waters and made scumhunting. I'm not sure this is genuine

Agent - no reasoning for his votes but that isn't necessarily indicitive of his Mafia play

Now I don't think for a moment 4 Mafia and SK players can all be on a town wagon on Day 1. Personally if I was Mafia I'd want to stay off a town wagon and even jump off. But I think at least 1 of those players is dirty, maybe 2.

I'd like to hear much more from: Microfish, agentcarr16, sirprimalform, joesapphire. If all these players could commit to a read on the early conflicts in the game, that would be useful and we're less likely to lynch you for being undercommited.



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Microfish_1: 5 pages already! :O I just got here. Will have to read and catch p, but meanwhile

vote ZFR
You had well thought out reads in your first game. After catching up what are your thoughts on the various conflicts?
Posted June 12, 2019
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JoeSapphire: When you voted for scene, were you thinking that he's probably town?
Yes, I think there is a high chance scene is town by the speed the wagon go traction. Now I'm aware that my vote can be misleading, though I never intended to stay there for long.
Posted June 12, 2019
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agentcarr16: However, vote trentonlf.
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GameRager: What's the reasoning behind this vote, if I may ask?
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trentonlf: Do I smell funny or something?
Yes. We didn't want to make it a big deal, but we've decided to stage an intervention.

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flubbucket: Was waiting for this...=D
I like you.

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blotunga: I'm quite willing to lunch flub
I'm sure he'd appreciate that, but I think he's taken.

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supplementscene: I'm actually tempted to put an RVS vote on Agent for his lack of explanation for his votes
...that's not what that word means.

As for trentonlf, votes 3-4 are pivotal and I like his less than I like gogtrial34987's.
Posted June 12, 2019
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JoeSapphire: When you voted for scene, were you thinking that he's probably town?
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blotunga: Yes, I think there is a high chance scene is town by the speed the wagon go traction. Now I'm aware that my vote can be misleading, though I never intended to stay there for long.
Uhhh... you thought the wagon was going suspiciously fast and your response was to add your vote to it? Regardless of whether you intended to leave it there or not, your vote was exacerbating a situation you allegedly regarded as suspicious.

Seems weird to me.
Posted June 12, 2019
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supplementscene: I'd like to hear much more from: Microfish, agentcarr16, sirprimalform, joesapphire. If all these players could commit to a read on the early conflicts in the game, that would be useful and we're less likely to lynch you for being undercommited.
*left eyebrow slowly raises*


My read on supplementscene's wagon: supplementscene said some stuff that doesn't make sense and a bunch of people found that frustrating or weird and voted for him. Maybe some people saw him as an easy lunch and went for him, but I'm not sure the mafia would be in a rush to push straightaway. But I could be wrong.

What's your opinion on blotunga?
Posted June 12, 2019
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supplementscene: I'd like to hear much more from: Microfish, agentcarr16, sirprimalform, joesapphire. If all these players could commit to a read on the early conflicts in the game, that would be useful and we're less likely to lynch you for being undercommited.
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JoeSapphire: *left eyebrow slowly raises*

My read on supplementscene's wagon: supplementscene said some stuff that doesn't make sense and a bunch of people found that frustrating or weird and voted for him. Maybe some people saw him as an easy lunch and went for him, but I'm not sure the mafia would be in a rush to push straightaway. But I could be wrong.

What's your opinion on blotunga?
Well yes I wasn't only talking about my wagon, Blotunga has been, what are your thoughts on him?

I stated my opinion on Blotunga above. I'm trying to think of a scenario where what he said makes sense.

OK Re-read what he wrote. He's new to Mafia, 2nd or 3rd game in. He questions if my outlook makes me fascist. Then he mistakenly thinks all the info I'm discussing is in the OP without twists. Having an SK wouldn't be a twist, it's possible he doesn't know this.

Pooka questions why he puts me at L2. Now if he is Town, he realises he made a mistake doing this so backs down. If he's Mafia he believes he's overplayed his hand

As he moves from my wagon he states 'Scene is fishy but I suspect Scum are on his wagon' and that kind of doesn't add up. Because if I'm Mafia there probably isn't Mafia on my wagon at L2 and 24 hours in. Not unless I'd completely given the game away.

Could everyone on my L2 wagon be Town? It's plausible, but I think unlikely
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionGOG Mafia #59 - Previously on Mafia...(1130 posts)(1130 posts)
(1130 posts)