SirPrimalform: Uberpost, hope I've not screwed up the formatting.
1. The vast majority of my experience dates from the beginning of the GOG mafia community. I think I played in most of the games between #1 and #20 so that could account for our differing experiences. Anyway, I still personally feel that not having lost any PR to NK or mislynch is pretty lucky, especially since neither of the lynches claimed (Joe unable to and ZFR refusing to).
Do you see anything suspicious about how Ixam's wagon evaporated on D2? It could just be down to ZFR suddenly drawing all the attention in the room. I guess that's more WIFOM.
2 Do you think what you said would still apply if she were a lyncher?
3 So I feel like I need to at least follow all the possibilities.
0. seems fine
1a. fair enough. It rubbed me a bit when you said it, but your explanation was perfectly reasonable, and now we're just shooting the shit, apparently. ;)
1b. If ZFR and Ix are both town, then why would maf care which way that wind blew?
If Ix isn't town, then yes, it should be looked at. Though Ix ended the day still with two votes, as did HSL. If anyone's D2 wagon could be said to have evaporated, wouldn't it be yours (from 3 down to 0)? ;)
2. Yes. The lyncher is just a survivor with a bonus win condition. Survivor plus! You can see my discussion on the role's issues with Lift/Wyrm and...somebody I think somewhere in the admin thread from a month or two back. I'm not taking it as a given we have one at all. Why, in the same game, have a survivor (or two) and then another role that is also a survivor, but way better in terms of having a verifiable role, multiple win conditions, and 2 options for claim depending on the target's alignment?
I suppose there could be a lyncher but no survivor, hypothetically, but I doubt it. Though it's Lift's call and not mine, so maybe he puts lyncher+survivor together to be amusing, IDK.
But hypothetically, depending on who her target was (or really at all) I don't know why any lyncher would bother taking the risk unless that path were immediately at hand. If you're asking might she not do it if she were lyncher and mud happened to be her target then...sure, maybe she keeps quiet. But I doubt it. And that's not nearly likely enough for me to like, act on, anyway. ;)
3. fair enough
P1na: Also confused. Claiming vanilla town is bad, so I shouldn't do it. But claiming to be mafia is certainly quite absurd, and claiming a power role is asking to be night killed, but you should do so before being night killed so you have to do it at some point. My only claim ever was being vanilla (I was a "vanilla" mafia goon that game, so I consider that a stretching of the truth TBH, but that's not the point here) and I haven't thought much about how to do so. And then there's the cryptoclaiming ban, which I don't quite get but I didn't think I'd have to worry about.
I kinda feel like
we need to stage an intervention. Are you ok?
If it makes you feel better, I've never really understood how cryptoclaiming would work either.
Agreed!
muddysneakers: Have you not considered the possibility that mafia know cristi is town and can use that here? They already know who isn't scum and they've investigated 2 people themselves. Could be cristi is one of the people they investigated.
I guess I'm completely discounting the possibility that she is neutral but wouldn't call out Ixam on it.
1. Yes. It's possible with certain conditions.
The way vanilla cop works she would have to be VT rather than PR/neutral, and ...I'd say they probably would have had to cop her N1, realistically. And why prioritize copping her but not killing her if they do know she's town? But that gets WIFOMy quick. But yes, if she's VT & they copped her, it's possible. If she's PR, then no, not really.
If town!mud, we have 5 VTs on the table (4 flips plus your claim), and high probability not more than 6 VT in the game total, so that dance card is quite full. So...yeah.
Also possible they gambled and guessed right, or that she's w/w with Ix, but...while many things are possible, I have to assume a lot to see them coming together as probable.
2. Then I would say you don't know cristi. Go read Oakwood, or even just the post-game chatter with her and Tammy where they were both neutral and both played 100% towards town wincon vs. maximizing their own.
But you don't have to believe me. Or perhaps this is just wriggling. /shrug
muddysneakers: @ bler. I seem to recall you pillorying scene for suggesting to waste time investigating people who seem town. Isn't that basically what Ixam is claiming he did? See 542. He's looking for a town block. Just poor play as town Ixam or scum Ixam?
I'll leave it to others to judge whether "pillorying" is fair. But I think at the least this post is reductionist.
While I don't care to rehash it at length, and honestly not even inclined to go re-read it and work myself up, that part of the discussion with scene was ultimately a longer conversation about two things, not one:
1) Is directing PR action townie - short version, no, it is not. Period.
2) I'm not inclined to go look, but I expect the phrase I would have used is "optimal" vs. "sub-optimal" in response to scene trying to argue that "X is the best play so I don't care if you tell me not to direct PRs!" when logically that part is not true either.
My goal was not to make him feel bad, I just wasn't sure how to have a conversation about etiquette/game customs and logic (I don't recall if it was simultaneous or if the logic debate followed the directing debate) with someone who didn't agree that either of those things mattered. And definitely lost my patience. So yes, my bad. He was still wrong, though.
I would definitely agree what Ix is describing as a course of action is not logically optimal for the role.
But the reason Parity Cop (and really the only reason I signed up for this game) is my favorite role is that tactically it's super hard to play well. The "greatest of all cops" is an old inside joke with a few players.
I had that role in my very first game, and I actually did ok (1 maf and 1 sk through N4), but a very slight miscalculation N3 was the difference between winning and losing. I spent 5ish long, brutal (in-game, and IRL, and I don't think even yogs knows how dark some of that time was) weeks in the role, and then have thought about it for 2 years.
This is, I think, only the 2nd or 3rd time the role has made an appearance in a GoG game. I'd wager large sums I've given the role waaaay more thought than anyone else here.
Considering my history with Ix, honestly, imo this is pretty believable from town!him. I'd probably be more suspicious it looked fake if his picks were 100% logical, since ...pure logic is not his game. No offense.
Now I could make a wisecrack at his expense here (and reeeeeally want to since it's hilarious like all my jokes), but I'm going to try being nice. It is a holiday, after all. Plus this post is way too long already.
flubbucket: Fearmongering isn't town.
muddysneakers: I'm not fearmongering and if you're confident in your vote you have nothing to fear anyways. I'm just warning you that if you make a mistake here it could cost you the game.
In #547 you listed flub as 4th most likely to be maf after Ix, Spf, and myself. This post reads like you're assuming he's town 20 posts later.
Plus the other thing.
Jeesh, this really needs to be broken up into two posts, but ...it doesn't appear anyone is online to bump, and I'm not inclined to wait 10 min for the timer.
Sorry all for the Thanksgiving WOT. On the bright side, there's plenty for everyone with still enough for leftovers!
