ebWOP - nvm, I had not caught the mention in post 11 even though HSL cough coughed to point it out again later in response to ZFR.

I was assuming it was a given from the OP.

OK, I was thinking about the ZFR thing yesterday night. He's basically claiming agent and myself to be town roughly because of the of our late votes. I'm not entirely convinced of the logic of that, and I do find that onviction of double lynch danger a bit weird. However, if he were mafia, he would know I'm not, so he would have no real reason to defend me so. If he were town, he would have zero reason to lie. So I'm going to assume his reading to be honest and genuine.

That being so, should I just knock down my suspect list anyone who defends me personally? It's a rather simplistic take, plus it has zero value to anyone else at the moment since it's based on the assumption that I'm town, which only I know for certain. It's easy to say that history will vindicate me on that front, and maybe the line of reasoning will be useful after my death, but I don't really have a death wish.

Anyway, based on the stuff above, I think ZFR thnkis seriously about the game. And I think he expects others to be on that level, and as such he doesn't expect me to stop suspecting him for the shallow reason that he though I was town. And for that exact reason I will tentatively not suspect him (much). And following that train of thought, I'll also lay off agent a bit. Not certain if I should do the same for Cristie, still mulling on that.

Also @bler, if I were mafia I'd night kill the people who are generally considered to be town adn thus will not be lynched during the day. It would make it harder for me to get lynched, odd wise, and it would traumatize town. So reading so many "P1na is probably town" posts made me a bit uneasy.

Then again, I'm aware mafia would have many other criteria: who they find dangerous because they are getting close to the truth, power role suspicions... whichever the reason was, in hindsight scene certainly didn't get killed due to things that worried me yesterday night. So my concerns might indeed be eyebrow raising, but still, night kill is scary. Because you can't see it coming.

I should have qualified that. If we have a 3 player scum team, I think it's likely one of the two of you are scum. I'm looking at my POE list and while it'd be great if the bottom of my list was the team, it's highly unlikely. I don't think it's productive to start listing off potential teams with no flips. However, if I take the stance that SPF is town, I do find you more suspect and likely to be in a pick-three team combo.

If it's a two-player scum team, there's a greater number of possibilities (in my eyes) that do not include either of you in a pick-two combo.

Okay, that makes sense. I found myself zoning out a bit when reading the exchange today (D2) because it seemed liked arguing over semantics.

I was catching up. Between Part II and Part III, P1na voted and placed Joe at L-1. Moving my vote at that point would have lynched him. I made note of that in my next post.

BTW, I used the wrong word there - I should have said my read was neutral, not null.

I had a question on this one, but was waiting for Hyper's reply. The line Hyper quoted above included the following:

"Slipping it out there just in case. What's your point in repeating it?"

@Ixam - what do you mean "Slipping it out there just in case"? Just in case of what? How does that benefit town?


I am out of time. @bler - your #359 is next.

OK, forget all about the double-lynch for a moment. Why would maf!P1na vote Joe when he was at 5? It wasn't a more natural vote for him, there was no particular reason to get Joe's claim (no reason to make his claim beneficial to Mafia than any other claim; in fact given how Joe had internet troubles he was less likely to claim), and P1na voting someone else would not have been suspicious.
In fact, Joe's lynch at this point was pretty much predestined. So why vote him?

Where I'm going with this? I think this makes P1na non-mafia.
The only reason maf!P1na might vote Joe is if he (P1na) dropped the ball, got scared "I'll look suspicious if I keep my RVS vote on ZFR!!" and voted the first thing that came to his mind. Or purposely did it as a form of elaborate WIFOM because he anticipated someone would think the way I did. But I honestly see either as unlikely.
If I were scum and came and saw that a townie is almost certainly getting lynched any moment now; I'd stay off that wagon.

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With agent, I'll grant you that maf!agent had was more reason to vote Joe at that stage than P1na (though had I been mafia in his place I wouldn't). So I'm willing to downgrade him a bit on my Town scale.

...

I'd rather we just be friends.

Sure, we can be friends. Who think of their mutual friends in bed, to keep them warm while they wait for the house heating to get fixed.

Lunchtime has come and gone. Outside the body of Susannah softly sways in the wind, while the crows pick out her eyes. Not the most appetizing view. But soon enough some of you will hang right next to her. The Bell ist still silent. But for how long? How long until the villagers, your former neighbors, demand another decision? Another sacrifice to the law?

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The (vote) Count:

agent 1 - muddy (269)
Ixam 1 - flubb (301)
ZFR 1 - SirP (273)
flubb 1 - P1na (257)
SirP 2 - ZFR (258), cristi (342)
HSL 1 - Ixam (347)

Not voting: agent, HSL, bler
Lynch occurs at 6 votes.
As usual, if you find errors, please give them back!

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Oh wow! Still, that's some deep meta that I wasn't present for. In your opinion, is it possible that Ix has learned from past experience to reign in the paranoia? His reason for voting Joe still looks mildly paranoid to me.
Also not sure about his rolefishy post regarding ZFR. If they're buddies it could be an attempt to make people back off, if ZFR is town Ix could have been plain rolefishing.

Argh, posting from phone, can't multiquote easily.

Don't blame you to be honest, I could feel my brain glazing over, which is why I've stopped pursuing it. I'm not disregarding it but I see no more point in discussing it. Doesn't seem like I'm going to convince anyone else to join me on ZFR's wagon today.

I'll tentatively vote Ixam.

Happy to move back to ZFR if anyone else does though.

I thought he was a decent enough place for a day one vote and even a solid day one lynch. But after the wagon went sort of fast and there's no claim (maybe he never got back "in time"), when night falls I admit I get a bit worried waiting for that flip. I wasn't hoping he would claim town vanilla, I started to get worried he had a role and hadn't had a chance to claim. Voters remorse and all. Then he flipped VT.

Just letting everyone know I'm not voting him until / unless something changes. Beyond that I want nothing from him. I'm surprised at all the attention he's getting.

I mean, WIFOM aside, mafia have some incentive to play nice to players they think are town. Don't they?

ZFR seems to be town-reading you, cristi is tone-reading you. I said I tone-read 2 of your posts. I mean, I'm not paying as much attention as you are to how everyone else is reading you certainly, but are there more than just 2.5 people town-reading you right now?

As for the NK part, in this case, it's not a factual disagreement, it's that the tone of that feels off - very "Woe is me!" It made since D1 in the context of your "I always get NKed" joke lament, but here it rubs a bit.


Maybe, though it seemed a little clumsy to be traditional rolefishing, imo. Generally you fish with questions, not declarative statements. Don't you?

It certainly didn't invite ZFR to share any info.

I suppose maybe it was challenging flub to see if flub was assuming ZFR was PR, but that's a bit strange if you work it through. White knighting potentially, over-sharing def.



____

2.5 reads to go. Super quick sloppy notes before running out the door:

I re-read mud. Like some things from an analytical POV, but overall came away null. Very sharp at points, so perhaps more disconcerting when not. Has spent a lot of time on SPF/ZFR both in D1 and D2. Could just as easily be floating town, or coasting Maf. He's in the POE. I'm curious about ZFR's flip partly for this reason. If ZFR is maf, I think mud sorts town - there was no reason for him to continue pulling attention in towards a buddy. If ZFR is town, that merits a bit more scrutiny.

Got halfway through HSL. Yes, he could technically be doing exactly what he's doing as any alignment, but I think that applies to everyone right now. Compared to the field, yeah...he's a safe non vote for me at this point. Nothing jumps out.

@ZFR - I saw your response but haven't quite processed it. Sorry :(

That's why I was leaning towards a "protecting buddy" possibility. Suggesting ZFR has a PR might have been an attempt to get people to stop prodding him.

Suddenly the bell tolls again. Sombre notes, reverbrating from the church tower through the hall and announcing, that it is time to decide. Or else.

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Decision Bell Vote Count

agent 2 - muddy (269), agent (self)
Ixam 2 - flubb (301), SirP (370)
flubb 1 - P1na (257)
SirP 2 - ZFR (258), cristi (342)
HSL 2 - Ixam (347), HSL (self)
bler 1 - bler (self)

It is now Phase 2. Everyone is a-voting, if they want it or not.
With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch before Nightfall.
Nightfall will be some time on Saturday.

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