wall-of-text thanks!
muddysneakers: 1. Who was cristi possibly buddying? Anyone still alive want to take a stab at that?
Regardless I like flub or agent here.
2. I'll go with agent since his wagon might go somewhere.
1) Not trying to dig out old battles, but I don't take that particular question with any seriousness. It's not like he pointed to specific instances and said "this looks like buddying!" he just said, "hey, I'm not willing to town-read her, someone go find some buddying, maybe?!" We all do that sometimes, so I'm really not trying to make him feel bad, but it's just generally not productive either.
Your earlier concerns about me and cristi are valid, certainly - esp. for a player who wouldn't know either of us at all. Do you have questions about specific interactions (or things we've said) or are you just thinking out loud?
The short version imo is that you're in the correct area, roughly. IMO we have similar views on what constitutes "proper town" play (making reads lists, voting, e.g.) as well as some overlap in what we view as specifically wolfy, though from my POV I wouldn't expect the bulk of our reads to overlap in the middle, but more likely than not at the extremities.
The way I describe cristi normally on D1 is that "she sorts over time." Ergo, there's never any reason, barring an obvious slip, to lynch her D1. Sometimes she's too quiet or pings in a way that merits a push for her to step up.
If she IS active, she's too valuable if town to just lynch on a whim (she can solve, is highly likely to soak NK if not wolf), and if you actually push/engage her, her playstyle raises the degree of difficulty. I haven't done much pushing of her here both because she's been reasonably active, nothing pings at all, and you know, I was a bit distracted.
Doesn't mean she won't fool me, certainly. And in that D1, town waited too long to do anything coherent, so there's not much solid to read against. I'll spare you the discussion on deep wolves.
Compare her reads list to Joe's, for example (not trying to pick on the dead, but...he is an exemplar here). She tends to at least try to sort people as town / non-town (ZFR was the only null, IIRC?), and to give some reason. If she's scum, she either has to pressure teammates based on actual reads and hope it doesn't bite, or fake those reads, and then it's much harder (on average) to justify them shifting to suit maf interests in that moment vs. legit reads.
So, ask her questions. Watch her reads lists. If X goes from lean town to scum on her vote or her lists, look at her reasons. She tends to lay it out, so if it feels like there's a gap in the progression, push. It's not to say she CAN'T be lying, but it's much harder for her than for someone who makes a reads list but it says "IDK, maybe" who can go from scum to town and back without having to contradict anything they said.
But, I'm legit reading her as town at this point, I'd say lean town in an absolute, strong town relative to the field.
I think the one thing that stands out is that she stayed on agent as long as she did, vs. say, jumping to P1na, or ZFR, or anything that might create info from a counter-wagon, but she did give A reason for it as I recall, so when I re-read having seen the flips, I'll look more care with new info in mind.
I would tend to assume she (having seen my scum game) is legit reading me as town, or if maf, I suppose, knows I'm town/neutral and doesn't have to fake much, but is looking at the same type of markers - albeit I put out a lot more text to read/sort - and knows cracks will show if she's patient.
2. Just to clarify, since I raised an eyebrow on this on first pass, but think I probably misunderstood in the context of D2 - you're not overlooking the fact that flub already has a vote on him D2 (ergo, 2 votes would have at least started a wagon vs. placing a first vote), but this quote is assuming that cristi's D1 read and potentially mine are still in play?
Do you assume that?
Why, specifically do you "like" in flub at this point in D2?
Why, specifically do you "like" in agent at this point?
bler144: No one besides agent/I is eyeballing scene that I can see. It's not even worth re-reading agent to see if it's worth weighing rejoining cristi at that point because no one else besides the two of us seemed to be eyeballing him at that point (ok, well, and scene, but that appears to be 100% OMGUS I want no part of), unless I missed it.
muddysneakers: You missed it. I've been trying to get a straight answer out of agent for a few posts now.
I actually need to re-read everybody at this point, so yes, it's possible (and in fact, probable) I missed something significant. But in response to your specific answer I would say "trying to get answers out of" is not the same as "clearly expressed an interest to vote for."
IYO, did you clearly express an interest in voting agent previously? Or were you just musing and hoped other players would interpret that?
SPF vs. ZFR squabble appears to be the main action, but nothing jumps out at me in it either way.
I wrote this like an hour ago and had to go deal with a crying child, but it doesn't appear anything has changed in that time.
