Joe was posting from my house last night but I have no idea where he is tonight or whether he'd have access to the internet there. He's famously (amongst my friend group that is) hard to track down or contact.

The question then is - why didn't you poke flubbucket?


It disappoints and saddens me that you think that I, of all people, am trying to re-stir the pot, let alone for an in-game purpose/agenda.

I'm only trying to understand where you stand on both of them, and why you'd prefer supplementscene over JoeSapphire.
- In your posts to/about supplementscene you've gone through the whole spectrum of possible alignments, and motives for wanting him lynched, and I'm sorry to say that the prevailing stance at the end seems to be "the clash is so intense, I simply can't play with this person".
- In your post #165, you express some valid concerns, see parallels to his last game (where he wasn't actually mafia, and wasn't playing to the mafia's team win-condition, and it's confusing you're seeing it that way), but also make arguments as to why all of what JoeSapphire had done up until then could be NAI. And then preface your vote with the bit I quoted. And after labelling (again) my question as nitpicking, comes your post #219.

So yeah, sorry if I'm supposed to have a clear picture what your stance regarding their alignment is, and what your reasons for preferring one over the other. I don't, hence my inquiries.
I'm also sorry if you feel this all is pointless since you've decided to sub out, but I was left with the impression that you are playing the game until you're actually out.


Any particular reason you're referring to me in the third person while directly addressing me? Or did you mean someone else and mistyped?

Anyway, there's probably not enough time for you to respond to this, but perhaps you'll read it, and understand what and why I asked what I did.

My mistake and that's pretty much a lock then. I predict Scene, Bler and Agent all survive the night

Farewell Joe, PS it kind of serves you right for Mafia #55

You really should think about it more, since you seem to have missed the point and the significance why OMGUS has it's own acronym that shows up over and over and can be googled and has its own wiki page and everything. I'm not trying to be a jerk here. You're just way overvaluing yourself and town!your narrow slice of the game. Or your non-town being deliberately obtuse.

As a practical matter, depending on how D1 goes, wolves often have less incentive to do any pushing than town do. They already have information. No lynch D1 isn't ideal for mafia, but it's not particularly bad for them in most setups, in part because it is - more often than not, though unlike the crowd I don't think it's always true - bad for town.

Considering you only yielded two actual votes and Joe wishy-washying, there may be literally no wolves at all on town!you. They could well have been waiting for a 3rd or maybe even 4th vote before clamping down.

1. Fair...ish? If wrong.

2. False. Even assuming you had not, for whatever reason seen posts 224/225, in 222 (which you acknowledge seeing) she said:


Null is not town. It's also clearly only a partial list, so one would presume she was not done, not that she magically thinks everyone is town.


Sigh. You piss me off. I'm sorry. You do.

That is absolutely not what I said. You are either misrepping deliberately or you simply don't comprehend.

Ironically, it is closer to what flub said in the post immediately proceeding yours, so...perhaps you've confused the two of us? I mean, sure, that happens all the time because our playstyles and posts are quite similar. HSL was just asking me why I said that Joe was "delicious." I get it.

Though even if you'd said it to flub I would thought it was a cheap shot. He's sticking with his vote (as am I) and knows he'll be judged on that. Whereas you are hemming and hawing, and don't look great for it no matter how Joe flips.

If Joe flips maf, this

in particular looks bad, perhaps looking to seize on a few people expressing ambivalence to divert wagons on a buddy.


1/3 and part of 2. I'm really trying to be in the game, but it waxes and wanes. Ironically the reason I was gone all day yesterday is I was in an "investigative techniques" seminar, and one of the things they covered is that you should never do a formal investigative interview within 2 sleep cycles of someone experiencing intense stress because the various hormones people produce (oxytocin, opiods, cortisol, etc) in response to stress haven't fully reset and that impacts the memory and assessment.

Here it's probably 48 hours since I flipped my shit on him, but he seriously keeps retriggering me. I'm really trying to get clear of what is anger and what part is rationality and straight "play the game" with independent judgment, and I simply can't do it. Because Joe is in that sphere around scene, that's somewhat tainted as well.

Scene posts that shit above and I'm beyond mad all over again. That's God's 100% honest truth. I'm really sorry.

If you ask me to respond to something he said and analyze it, I can probably do that. If you ask me how I feel, man, can of worms.

This is, for the record, related to why, if scene is town here (which, fuck knows) scene clearly doesn't understand OMGUS. If you're focused on yourself, or having an emotional reaction - which people calling you scum or misrepping you will trigger for some, regardless of the OP's purpose, you can do your damnedest to be rational, but you're probably going to fail and be inconsistent, or focus on the wrong things, or whatever your delusion is.

"Surely town would never do ____ to me because I know I'm town!" is just a flawed proposition out of the gate. So one is better off NOT focusing on "why is X saying blahblahblah about MEEEEE" unless you're put in a position of having to play defense (as Joe was - you never really were objectively in that gamestate) and focus on what Y is doing elsewhere.

For the rest of your/HSL's #2., that's fair. At this point all I can try and do is lay out that scene is full of himself, or full of crap, or both. Y'all get to decide what to do with that.

Joe hasn't claimed and isn't here. I'm gone.

@HSL - love to you. I have no hard feelings.

Regarding my post #208 - going by the responses and reactions, I see I failed to clearly convey my point.

- Yes, I'm aware what the Decision Bell marks, and how much time we have after it rings until the Day ends.
- No, of course I didn't think/expect that the Day would end with the tie of all those two-votes wagons.
- Yes, I'm aware that quite likely there's town among those shifting their votes, hence why I wonder if there's (at least?) someone manipulating the ties in anticipation of Phase 2.
- Yes, I've not drawn any conclusions; reason is what I said in the last two paragraphs of my post.

If the voting mechanics/rules were the GOG-typical sort, it'd probably wouldn't have caught my attention, perhaps I wouldn't have thought much of it even later in the game.
But here, each Day is divided in two Phases, and the lynching rules are quite different in Phase 2. That allows for proactive subtle actions, even if everyone seems to approach EoD and the lynch like always, or cares to appear to be doing so.



Why are you so interested in that?

I don't think JoeSapphire's lynch is going to flip mafia, Neutral at best. And since a hammer's no needed to secure the lynch, I don't feel inclined to join that wagon; there are already (more than) plenty of people on his wagon.


You tell me, Dr Bull, does RWarehall's all SKs game count in your book? It doesn't in mine, but that's the only game I was a third-party, yet not a Neutral.

And as I've said more than once in the past, I think that most would play as town when Neutrals (and I never include SKs in Neutrals), because the role lends itself well to a town-play.

You ended that last part with a wink, so I am not sure if that was tongue-in-cheek.

For the record, if you read both of my posts prior to yours, I do NOT read everyone as town. For a while now, I have mostly focused on determining who I think is town during D1 and creating a POE list (process of elimination). It's a popular strategy on other sites and I find it suites me. I will call out scummy behavior if I see it, but generally, I've found my attempts at scum hunting mostly ineffective on D1. I am more interested in determining who I think is town and narrowing down the field of who could be scum. I don't have anyone from today as overtly scummy.

My list looks something like this: (starting with most likely town)
bler
ZFR, muddy
Ixam and P1na (gut town leans)
scene
-----------------------------------------------(town line)
flubb
Hyper
--------------------------------------------------- (feel best about voting line)
agent
SPF
Joe

This list will fluctuate (and already has) as the game progresses. I am likely wrong about someone above the town line. If we have a 3 person scum team, I hope I have two of them below the town line. It does not take into account associations - won't go there yet. I have no idea if we have a neutral, we may and we may not. Since Lift took the time to include them as possibilities, I'd guess we have one. With only 12 players, two neutrals seems less likely.


pre-post refresh.......

Because it helps me understand your reads. I can draw conclusions based on your line of questions, but until you vote someone else or specifically state who you are willing to vote, I may or may not be reading it right. It also places more squarely on record where you stand in the game.

No, not really, the all SK game was unique. Somethings I remember clearly and others I don't remember at all.

Right I'll say I was too shallow and unfair in my analysis of your reads

I read you as a person who is naturally less aggressive in your playstyle and probably someone who doesn't tunnel as much as I and perhaps others do and probably has a more balanced. I don't know if anyone who's played with you before can confirm that. There seems to be a generosity to your posts too that could be mistaken for buddying. But not of that speaks on your alignment, which is ofcourse random.org

Has anyone played with a Christi who played Mafia? (I know some of you don't like 'meta'........)

Isn't your upset and anger complete OMGUS in effect though? The object of Town's game is to investigate fellow players. The object of Scums game is to distract and manipulate. You shouldn't be getting upset in RL over what is just a game of words and analysis.

I hate to say this but it has occured to me that this upset and anger could be feigned for in game credibility.

Now wolves don't need to push. But Wolves who are vocal in town play do otherwise they will be read as being uncharacteristic. When I played as Scum in game 55 I knew I had to post frequently and aggressive as that is my town game. Likewise you would need to do the same. And if you were Neutral Lyncher there's more incentive for a busy aggressive poster to target their enemy aggressively. But you're absolutely right that from my knowledge, there could be no Scum on my wagon at all.

My analysis of your choice of voting move wasn't anything to do with OMGUS though. It was a response to HSL discussing Joe's train growing. Why did you feel the need to move on your vote with 2 days to deadline? Why are you annoyed at me quoting your words verbatim and interpretating them the way I have? Actually if Joe does flip Scum my read of you is improved because of this.

As for me looking bad if Joe flips Scum. I'm quite aware of that. And I'll look bad if he flips town too because I could be interpreted as me staying off his wagon 'because I knew he was town'. The bottom line is without my questioning of Joe's vote for me followed by further analysis of him there probably wouldn't be a Joe wagon. The Scene wagon would be on 3 votes and probably grow. Joe was also my first vote. However you could point to all that being 'distancing' anyway.

I don't like arguing for the sake of arguing. A lot of players do. From that standpoint, I'm not aggressive. I have tunneled and been wrong many times in the past. If I think I genuinely see something, I'll pursue it. One of the reasons that I like mafia on gog is that this group is generally people who like playing together. They may take shots at one another, but at the end of the day, we still 'like' one another.

I want to enjoy the game, I've learned for me that means not making the game feel like 'work'. I stopped taking notes long ago. I'm probably not as effective at game solving as I could be and I am OK with that. I take too long to read and process posts (regardless of alignment) in order to be a serious player. I do enjoy watching serious players play. I find the annual mafia tournament on MU fascinating. I don't find gog nearly that level of serious. Not knocking our games or players, games can be intense, players are typically invested and we have talent. I find it more about the fun, sport, and comradery.

Bler, Hyper, and flubb have the most experience playing with me. Agent, Ixam, and ZFR (i think) to a lesser extent.

Suddenly the doors to the town hall are unlocked and the judge walks in, flanged by several armed men.

"Well? Who is it going to be?" he asks sharply. An awkward silence follows. Then silently, one by one, several people point towards JoeSapphire.

"Allright, witch! You have been found out! Come with us!"

"I'm not witch!" Joe protests. "Look, it's not even a majority! Most think I'm innocent."

"Way I see it, lots of fingers are pointing at you. That's enough for me. Drag her out!"

And two strong men do exaxtly that. They drag Joe screaming and kicking out and all you can do is watch in horror. The doors are slammed shut and locked again and you hurry to the barred windows to watch. Joe is, without so much as a trial or any defense, stood on a stepladder with a noose around her neck. Then the stepladder is kicked away and she dangles from the thick branch of the village oak. For a while she struggles, then she falls silent. Dead. Leaving you feeling guilty, but glad that it wasn't you. Yet.

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Final Day 1 Vote Count:

agent 2 - cristi (65), scene (233)
ZFR 2 - SirP (122), muddy (160)
JoeSapphire 6 - flubb (129), Ixam (156), bler (165), agent (178), ZFR (204), P1na (223)
P1na 2 - HSL (24), Joe (149)

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At Day end, Joe had collected the majority of votes and is lynched. But an investigation of her body and her personal belongings didn't yield anything and the priest didn't observe anything special either, when she died. She seems to have been as normal as they come.

Joe was Susannah Martin, Vanilla Townie

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It is now Night. Please stop posting in this thread. Witches, please go to your Chat, all persons with Night Actions, please submit them within the next 48 hours. Earlier, if you can. I would like to re-start Day 2 on Monday.

@Bler144 I hope your family are better soon and no grudges are held. Hopefully you don't feel the need to sub out either but if you do all the best.

On point 2, I think I noted Bler was the 4th vote and it was the difference maker. But when I tried to check this in search when looking for '4' it ironically kept bringing up bler144. Bler it's like there's a universal magniticism we can't shake off.

Perhaps Ixamyakxim 3rd vote is equally or more noteworthy too. It is also worth noting Ixamyakxim came into the game very shortly after I voted on him for not posting. Almost as if he was lurking and then thought he should stop. Maybe just a coincidence.......but maybe not

A post 30 minutes after Nightfall and after the mod message not to post anymore is stretching it. Please pay more attention to the thread before posting! I would understand a few minutes if someone is still writing and forgets to refresh. But half an hour is a lot.

So, consider this a strong warning. You are on probation now. Another violation of the rules (even accidental double-posting) will get you modkilled!

And no, don't reply to this post in-thread before the Day starts again. No more night-posts, please!

Yoooooooouuu kiiiiiiiillllled meeeeeeeeee

A grim dawn. No birds greet the sun that rises red in the east. Only crows sit in the village oak and on Susannah Martin's body, feasting on her corpse that still dangles from that branch. A big bowl of gruel in pushed through the door. Your breakfast. Blearily you rise to start another Day of discussing. ... But not all of you rise. Supplementscene lays still with a slit throat. Curiously, there isn't a lot of blood. But on her forhead the sign of the Evil Eye is carved. The Witches have claimed their first victim. A quick investigation of her body and her belongings reveals ... nothing special.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

supplementscene is dead and was Bridget Bishop, a Vanilla Townie

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is now Day 2. All votes are reset and the Day will start with Phase 1 (normal voting) again. Which will last for about 3 days +/- half a day.

You may post in this thread again